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Re: alt models and failing at life
I don't see Amelia having a problem with your opinions, the issue lies in the fact that you always say whatever you believe will be get the most adverse reaction, and I don't believe a single one of the "opinions" you have had on here have been yours.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
^ Wasn't that already obvious from the beginning. That's probably only reason why I dig him. He can play longer than other kids :)
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Quote:
Originally Posted by athenahollow
I don't see Amelia having a problem with your opinions, the issue lies in the fact that you always say whatever you believe will be get the most adverse reaction, and I don't believe a single one of the "opinions" you have had on here have been yours.
Oh, I believe alot of them have been his true opinions. I think Allah would agree with that.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Not to derail the OTness, but I've been on both sides and I was just as weird when I modeled in Paris tatless with boring hair. In fact, I was catpoop crazy. Still, an alt model must look like, well, an alt model.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
You know, this kind of reminds me was a director told me when i was trying to be an actor.
"you're too short"
Never mind that I got a call back, never mind that I was brilliant (and none of you can prove any different :mad: ) I was short.
Now I read the play, and nothing in it said anything about the character being tall. Nothing. So I complained bitterly where my acting teacher could hear and he set me straight on one thing.
I don't deserve the part. Not that I in particular didn't deserve it, but no one really did.
In the director's mind, he had an image for the play. In that image, he saw someone taller. That is his choice. He can base it on talent, looks, or he can divine which actor he will choose in his tea leaves.
Now, like some of you i rejected this at first and the teacher turned the question around. Does he deserve to have you as an actor? Even if he want's you, even if his play is brilliant and he knows it is perfect for you, you can decide arbitrarily not to do it.
It is not about deserving, it is about wants. And sometimes wants are arbitrary and unfair. There is no objective standard for acting no matter what I say about tom cruise. There is also no objective standard defining Alt, the look or the lifestyle and there is little point trying to change someone's arbitrary opinions. People are judged too often to get hung up on it.
That's my take anyway.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicat
Not to derail the OTness, but I've been on both sides and I was just as weird when I modeled in Paris tatless with boring hair. In fact, I was catpoop crazy. Still, an alt model must look like, well, an alt model.
I feel like it's the title of 'model' that makes the superficial surface appearance more of an issue. For example, you have, as far as I've ever known, always been an interesting, eclectic, and/or off-beat individual. The tattoos don't validate that any more than a house full of fun cool cat toys does; it simply is the case. Media showing what a cool person you are is failing if the only thing it can come up with is that you have some interesting ink. When we work with someone like you, we try to make sure we take a more well rounded approach, talking about books you've written, musicians and friends you work and tour with, clubs you go out to, etc. So, maybe it's the model role that is flawed, in terms of media about cool interesting subculture. Being cool and interesting and culturally worthwhile is about a lot more than just skin art and what brand one's shoes are. We understand that, but a lot of people seem to miss that point these days.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
I appreciate the appreciation, Forrest, and the fact that you showcase people's multidimensionality as you do.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicat
I appreciate the appreciation, Forrest, and the fact that you showcase people's multidimensionality as you do.
No problem. But, I think it points out the problem with the 'model' role. Models, shouldn't be much more than the looks they can portray. I think culturally people are selling themselves short when so many of them rush to play the model role and then find it shallow and unfulfilling.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Well, fashion models are often far from role models. The alt world does a little better but when you're there to sell a corset you have to accept your role, if you'll pardon the redundancy.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Being judged based on how you look... This is interesting to me. I've found that way too many amature models come on the scene and then are freaked out when we talk about what they look like and what they look good doing. It goes from "Oh I wanna be a model" To "OMG this person is such a perv because they think I would look good nude stretched across a giant lobster statue".
Of course, the key words of my statement are: amature models.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
The tattoos don't validate that any more than a house full of fun cool cat toys does; it simply is the case.
please tell me more about this awesome sounding house. is it just full of cat toys and nothing else, or are there also cats there? it sounds like it would be a fun place to model.
i did my fair share of modeling during my college years, in the form of fashion shows and stuff for my friend's store. they were mostly just for the local goth/industrial and fetish scenes. of all the people who took part in them, almost everyone was just 'helping out a friend' rather than professional models. the payment we received was a combination of free drinks to excess and store credit or free merchandise. as a result of its informal-ness, i think that those involved checked their attitudes at the door. we were all there to help, and the only bitching i ever recall seeing was one lady who had way too much to drink and was too woozy to walk back out one more time.
there were a few strippers involved. they brought with them some of the usual 'drama' from their workplace, and engaged in some gossip backstage. but as to the modelling part of things, they really just had a better feel for the stage or "stage presence."
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
No problem. But, I think it points out the problem with the 'model' role. Models, shouldn't be much more than the looks they can portray. I think culturally people are selling themselves short when so many of them rush to play the model role and then find it shallow and unfulfilling.
I think it's okay to play the model role, but you have to accept that it can't be your whole life. And it really shouldn't be, IMO...as much as I adore contributing to other people's art, if I never created anything independently I'd feel very, very empty.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Good thread!
Rejection is part of freelancing. Modeling is freelancing. One who is freelancing has to go get a new job on the daily. Rejection will happen. Some people just don't have the skin for it. One more peg closer to the next job. meh.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
Reeeaaallllyyyy? I guess that would answer why in another thread that you simplistically described me as a "bourgeoisie banker", when really you have not one fucking idea what my job as a banker is or if I make alot of money doing it.
Now you're getting it. Difference is, though, that while I really am a narcissist with loose sexual ethics and you really are a bourgeois banker, I've never said (or believed) that this leaves you interchangeable with any other bourgeois banker - whereas you just stated confidently that the two or three things you think you know about me are all there is to know.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Amelia G
It got a bit derailed by someone who never has answered the question of whether he seeks to be Blue Blood's only troll or a real member of the community and who is now in limbo until he makes up his mind.
S'really not mutually exclusive. He's here. He posts his feelings and opinions at us. I don't see how he could realistically be categorised as anything other than a real member - at worst he's a real member that you don't like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia G
Humility rarely goes with being correct. People who are correct in their low estimations of themselves rarely have the capacity for, ya know, insight. People who have some real insight, along with a big bucket of humility, are, at the very least, incorrect about their low estimated of themselves. People who pretend to humility they do not feel are liars.
:thumb:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia G
The dictionary definition of bourgeois is "a person whose political, economic, and social opinions are believed to be determined mainly by concern for property values and conventional respectability" or "A person whose attitudes and behavior are marked by conformity to the standards and conventions of the middle class", so I think it is fair to say that that really really does not apply to Ajax or anyone who would be posting here on purpose. Not exactly the most conventional crowd here in general.
So can we not call people whores or bourgeois here please. Thanks.
I know you like to think the best of your community, but I don't agree that merely posting here implies a large-scale immunity to convention. Ajax in particular has never posted anything that I've read that marks him or his values as all that unusual. He's halfway smart and coherent, fairly even tempered and knowledgeable within his niche, but being likeable to a counter-culture oriented community doesn't mean there's even a shred of it in him, personally.
Anyway, 'property values' in that sentence don't mean 'what's the value of my house?' - they're values that regard property. Wealth, economical security, 'professionalism', consumer's lifestyle; general material respectability. Ajax's posts in many topics on many subjects have marked him as leaning this way - perhaps not too exceptionally so, but in western society it doesn't take exceptional in this regard to be bourgeois. I reserve the right to describe him (or anybody else I think the term applies to) as such.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
BF, honestly, much of that reads like simpering over-dramatization, not to mention some of it is simply untrue. Nobody is forcing you to participate. The amount of post moderation here is staggeringly low in comparison to a lot of other places. I wish there were none, but certain characters seem to take it on themselves to test the limits. Perhaps if we had to deal with this sort of thing more often, we'd be smoother about it. You are right, it does seem out of place. However, I don't really think you are missing much here and the whingeing about it only serves to dampen the mood, which was the character's intention in the first place. Don't be an unwitting pawn in someone else's petty game.
Gonna have to object here. Freedom isn't freedom if you don't get to use it; if you agree that there should be no limits, it shouldn't matter what anybody does to 'test' them - and if you don't agree, you should owe up to it and tell us what you think they should be and why. It also really doesn't matter what other places do or don't do; looking good by comparison in an ugly world, isn't.
If there's nothing to his posts, there's no reason to delete them. I've read one or two before they went missing, and although they were pretty unnoteworthy, that's all the less reason to break up a clean, tolerant moderation record for them. I don't like the idea of people's posts having to measure against some external standard of quality merely to be allowed to exist, and I like it even less if it's just one specific person being targetted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
I feel like it's the title of 'model' that makes the superficial surface appearance more of an issue. For example, you have, as far as I've ever known, always been an interesting, eclectic, and/or off-beat individual. The tattoos don't validate that any more than a house full of fun cool cat toys does; it simply is the case. Media showing what a cool person you are is failing if the only thing it can come up with is that you have some interesting ink. When we work with someone like you, we try to make sure we take a more well rounded approach, talking about books you've written, musicians and friends you work and tour with, clubs you go out to, etc. So, maybe it's the model role that is flawed, in terms of media about cool interesting subculture. Being cool and interesting and culturally worthwhile is about a lot more than just skin art and what brand one's shoes are. We understand that, but a lot of people seem to miss that point these days.
:yeeaaahh:
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raza
S'really not mutually exclusive. He's here. He posts his feelings and opinions at us. I don't see how he could realistically be categorised as anything other than a real member - at worst he's a real member that you don't like.
you have to use a nonspecific pronoun to refer to the troll because you don't even know what name to call *23 because he has had more than 40 accounts. real members do not have so many nicks you don't know what to call them and real members do not have accounts where they talk to their own accounts online. real members post real opinions and not differing opinions posted from different accounts. i thought that troll should have been banned the first time he pulled that with his penus posts. i hate all his accounts which have been outed.
i like Ajax. i'm employed too, but that does not make me mainstream.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Good point Karyn. Just because he's a banker by day doesn't mean he's not a superhero, or a drag queen by night. Maybe he even wipes his ass on all of the bills before handing them out.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raza
Now you're getting it. Difference is, though, that while I really am a narcissist with loose sexual ethics and you really are a bourgeois banker, I've never said (or believed) that this leaves you interchangeable with any other bourgeois banker - whereas you just stated confidently that the two or three things you think you know about me are all there is to know.
I never said that is all there is to know about you. Although, I'm assured in my assumption, that these are your biggest characteristics. My assumption on this matter is proved by those few key strokes you mentioned, that seem to be "more of the same" every time you type. If it were not for the fact that you post all the time, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt; Theorizing that how could I possibly even fathom knowing Raza's characterictics, because he doesn't comment that much on this forum...but you do. Hence....egomaniac. And yes, Raza, like you wrote to Amelia, I also reserve the right to describe you anyway I deem fit too. And the egomaniac comment?...Fits you like a glove.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
Also raza and ajax, you both dress up like zombies. maybe you have more in common than you know.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
I never said that is all there is to know about you.
I'm sure that you don't think it's what you meant, now that I've made it sound so ridiculous, but you definitely said that your pointing out a historical figure with a big ego and a tendency to openly romance others' lovers proved me to be non-unique. And then you spend two more posts going on about how my claims to greater complexity than were absurd delusions of grandeur.
Really not much room to back out of that one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
Although, I'm assured in my assumption, that these are your biggest characteristics. My assumption on this matter is proved by those few key strokes you mentioned, that seem to be "more of the same" every time you type. If it were not for the fact that you post all the time, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt; Theorizing that how could I possibly even fathom knowing Raza's characterictics, because he doesn't comment that much on this forum...but you do. Hence....egomaniac. And yes, Raza, like you wrote to Amelia, I also reserve the right to describe you anyway I deem fit too. And the egomaniac comment?...Fits you like a glove.
That, again, says more about you than it does about me. I mean, I know where you're coming from - I put a lot of effort into portraying myself as a pervert, egomaniac and perpetual rebel at every possible turn, because they're archetypes with just the right mix of glamour and depravity to suit my tastes, and I really do fit them well - but the fact remains that they're the labels on the package, intentional suggestions of character that oversimplify its content in order to communicate at least some universally understood key-phrases to people lacking the time, interest or intelligence to think beyond these terms. So I can dig that you see me that way - I see myself that way - but if they're the greater part of what you gather from my posts then either you've been skipping the ones over two sentences long, or you've been dazzled into reading only what you've been made to expect while treating the actual messages as filler.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by karyn
you have to use a nonspecific pronoun to refer to the troll because you don't even know what name to call *23 because he has had more than 40 accounts. real members do not have so many nicks you don't know what to call them and real members do not have accounts where they talk to their own accounts online. real members post real opinions and not differing opinions posted from different accounts. i thought that troll should have been banned the first time he pulled that with his penus posts. i hate all his accounts which have been outed.
i like Ajax. i'm employed too, but that does not make me mainstream.
Is a tree less real an object because there's been ten thousand different names for it in a hundred different places at a hundred different times? A name is never invalid, so pick any one you prefer, or remain indecisive - but either way your confusion does little to detract from his actuality. 'No True Scotsman', I think this one's called.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Raza
I'm sure that you don't think it's what you meant, now that I've made it sound so ridiculous, but you definitely said that your pointing out a historical figure with a big ego and a tendency to openly romance others' lovers proved me to be non-unique. And then you spend two more posts going on about how my claims to greater complexity than were absurd delusions of grandeur.
Really not much room to back out of that one.
That, again, says more about you than it does about me. I mean, I know where you're coming from - I put a lot of effort into portraying myself as a pervert, egomaniac and perpetual rebel at every possible turn, because they're archetypes with just the right mix of glamour and depravity to suit my tastes, and I really do fit them well - but the fact remains that they're the labels on the package, intentional suggestions of character that oversimplify its content in order to communicate at least some universally understood key-phrases to bourgeoisie. So I can dig that you see me that way - I see myself that way - but if they're the greater part of what you gather from my posts then either you've been skipping the ones over two sentences long, or you've been dazzled into reading only what you've been made to expect while treating the actual messages as filler.
No. I've read about 75% of the comments from everybody on here. Once again...Sorry, but you still come off as an egomaniac. I'm standing by that. Call it a "label" if it makes you feel better. A "key-phrase", what have you, but last time I checked there were no adjectives or nouns to describe different "levels" of being an egomaniac....Just egomaniac.
Oh, and since you brought of the fact that categorizing a person just by a label lessens the content, I must ask you then...Do you see me as a high bourgeoisie banker, a middle bourgeoisie banker, or a petty bourgeoisie banker? Because I would hate to see you as just a person lacking the time, interest or intelligence to think beyond such a basic term as "bourgeosie banker" and nothing else.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
No, no; quantifying abstractions doesn't make them any less inadequate. In fact it's a downright silly thing to do, since any numbers you attach necessarily cannot be meaningful. I'm telling you to reduce them.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Raza
No, no; quantifying abstractions doesn't make them any less inadequate. In fact it's a downright silly thing to do, since any numbers you attach necessarily cannot be meaningful. I'm telling you to reduce them.
Doesn't matter. Answer the question.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Morning Glory
Also raza and ajax, you both dress up like zombies. maybe you have more in common than you know.
:1orglaugh
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
Doesn't matter. Answer the question.
Yes, it does matter. It's an irrelevant question with no correct answer, and your insistence on asking it goes to prove exactly what I've been arguing all this time: you don't get it.
This debate is over, I think.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Raza
Yes, it does matter. It's an irrelevant question with no correct answer, and your insistence on asking it goes to prove exactly what I've been arguing all this time: you don't get it.
This debate is over, I think.
Oh, I get it perfectly. You don't get it. If it is a irrelevant question with no correct answer. If the description you have given me is basically an abstraction-Your word. A labeling. A "key phrase" to "dumb it down" for the rest of society. Then why Raza, is it so wrong for me to call you an egomaniac, yet, for some reason, it is somehow O.K. in your book to call me a "bourgesie banker". Isn't it, in essense, the same exact system of "profiling" that we both used to come to this theory of the other person?
That when I "label" you, I don't know what I speak of...Because I only know you on here. Not the "real" Raza. The one beyond this forum. The one made of all intricate parts. Yet, you only know the same of me....But still feel you still have the right to describe me any way you see fit to do so....Even though you do not know the "real" me....Only the few key strokes the I put down on here.
So, tell me Raza....In your best double entendre...How is "your" way correct, and mine, not?
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Re: alt models and failing at life
I've been saying this entire time, it's not wrong for you to call me an egomaniac. I am an egomaniac. You're wrong only in your persistent underestimation of how much else there might be to know, which reflects on the depth at which you perceive people in general.
Anyway, I'm off to a festival now, so you'll be reiterating yourself at a black screen until monday night at the earliest.
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Re: alt models and failing at life
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Originally Posted by Raza
I've been saying this entire time, it's not wrong for you to call me an egomaniac. I am an egomaniac. You're wrong only in your persistent underestimation of how much else there might be to know, which reflects on the depth at which you perceive people in general.
Anyway, I'm off to a festival now, so you'll be reiterating yourself at a black screen until monday night at the earliest.
***You're wrong only in your persistent underestimation of how much else there might be to know, which reflects on the depth at which you perceive people in general.***
You too buddy, you too.
Now the debate is over.
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How ever you may work hard, the boss will not be fully satisfied.
How ever you may work hard, the boss will not be fully satisfied.