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Thread: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

  1. #81
    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    that's true, forrest. I totally agree with you. I made a comment earlier on how nearly everyone in here has broken the law at some point. (I probibly broke about 10 traffic violations today.) The laws aren't made for morality, we all know that, otherwise we wouldn't choose which ones we want to follow and which one's we want to blow off. It's ultimatly up to ourselves to decide what's right or wrong, and no one can ever change that. and with that in mind, we can focus less on these ominous illegall gun-buying black market "criminals" and think about issues like domestic violence. There are thousands of children that accidently shoot themselves and die every year when they find their parents guns that are lying around, most of which were purchased legally for the irony of "protecting thier family". explain to me how it's not easy for people to get thier hands on guns?

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    man, I am confused, I don't even know what we are debating on anymore. haha. sheesh, this one is a really heated topic.I need to take a breather.

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    GasmaskGirl's Avatar Senior Member
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    "Gun Control Will Only Work When Criminals Start Obeying the Law."

    Over 90% of firearm-assisted crimes are committed with unregistered firearms (2003 est.) - This is from Moldova, Europe, your so-called crime-free haven.

    read this article:
    http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel091100.shtml

    it blows every point you've been trying to make to smithereens.

    "Given the terrible history of firearms prohibition in Moldova, no decent government would impose mandatory universal registration. And no sensible Moldovan would obey a registration decree."

  4. #84
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    who me? I thought that my point was that we should be better than the criminals who use guns, and not resort to thier leval of cowardice and bullying. but what do I know? i guess no one every solved anything with non-violence.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    who me? I thought that my point was that we should be better than the criminals who use guns, and not resort to thier leval of cowardice and bullying. but what do I know? i guess no one every solved anything with non-violence.
    That's unrealistic...you can't stop crime by being non-violent...

    In my less honorable days we called people like that one thing and one thing alone...victims.

    Guns are just as much about protection as they are about killing.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Criminals are not the only ones capable of cowardice and bullying. My thought is that we should have the power to face the cowardly bully, rather than give in and become the victim.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Here is some light reading that will show hard statistics about gun related crime...http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

    What you REALLY need to keep in mind is that crime REPORTING has spiked more than actual crime...gotta grab ratings somehow you know?

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    That is true also.

    People dont report the good stuff that people did on the News.

    The media can make a place seem Grand, or like complete garb age.

  9. #89
    ForrestBlack's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
    Here is some light reading that will show hard statistics about gun related crime...http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm

    What you REALLY need to keep in mind is that crime REPORTING has spiked more than actual crime...gotta grab ratings somehow you know?

    That looks informative. If I had the time, I think an economic overlay on that would be really interesting as well.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
    That looks informative. If I had the time, I think an economic overlay on that would be really interesting as well.
    Now that would be interesting...if any place will have it...it'd be here.

    http://www.bea.doc.gov/

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    maybe I don't want to stop crime, maybe I want to be a moral person. an eye for an eye is not the answer, if somone wants to hurt you, hurting them won't make them not want to hurt you back, it will just lead to more and more violence.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    maybe I don't want to stop crime, maybe I want to be a moral person. an eye for an eye is not the answer, if somone wants to hurt you, hurting them won't make them not want to hurt you back, it will just lead to more and more violence.
    If someone wants to hurt you and doesn't think they will get away with it safely, then you may get to keep your eye and live in peace.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    maybe I don't want to stop crime, maybe I want to be a moral person. an eye for an eye is not the answer, if somone wants to hurt you, hurting them won't make them not want to hurt you back, it will just lead to more and more violence.
    In some moral codes an eye for an eye IS needed and expected.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    maybe I don't want to stop crime, maybe I want to be a moral person. an eye for an eye is not the answer, if somone wants to hurt you, hurting them won't make them not want to hurt you back, it will just lead to more and more violence.


    there's nothing immoral about defending yourself.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    I agree with the last three points. but I digress, does that call for a gun? if I have a shootout with someone it's not very likely that I will be able to defend myself without suffering much harm.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    I agree with the last three points. but I digress, does that call for a gun? if I have a shootout with someone it's not very likely that I will be able to defend myself without suffering much harm.
    So, the world around you should sacrifice their rights because you are not prepaired?

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    Morning Glory's Avatar Apathetic Voter
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    how am I not prepared? I doubt that you are a super elite commando. I AM prepared because I understand the principles of how a gun works, and based on geomatry if someone is shooting at me at a close range, unless I can pull a quick draw mcgraw, the chances of me being hit are very high.

  18. #98
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    plus in most places in the world it isn't your right to own a gun.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    On a side note: A person broke into somebody's house in the news, and was either shot, or hurt by the home owner, or some object in the person's house.

    As a result, the thief is suing the home owner for assault, injury, and Emotional distress, among other charges.

    The court actually made the home owner pay the money to the person who broke into the home owner's house.


    ****************

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    plus in most places in the world it isn't your right to own a gun.

    your point being?... i think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing now.


    http://www.isil.org/resources/lit/guns-safer.html

    Will You Be Safer If Guns Are Banned?

    by David Kopel & Jarret B. Wollstein

    "Violence is out of control. Guns are a major cause. They all should be banned - the sooner the better." That's what many Americans seem to believe. As a result, a nationwide movement to ban all guns is growing.

    Will gun prohibition make you and your family safer? The evidence from cities in the US where guns have already been virtually banned is not reassuring.


    Banning guns doesn't keep them out of the hands of violent criminals.

    If banning guns worked, Washington, DC and New York City would be the safest cities in the country. Since 1976, it's been illegal in Washington, DC to own any handguns or to keep any type of gun in your home unlocked and fully assembled. However, Washington, DC is the "murder capital of the United States."

    New York City has had severe gun control laws since 1911, yet it also ranks among the most dangerous places in the country. In both cities, violent criminals can easily obtain the most deadly weapons on the streets within minutes.

    If a criminal attacks you on the street or in your home, you cannot afford to wait 30 minutes, 20 minutes, or even 10 minutes for the police to arrive - assuming that you even get the chance to call police and they respond. Ten minutes is more than enough time for a thug to rob, ****, murder, or cripple you for life.

    Making guns illegal will primarily disarm peaceful citizens. That gives a green light for violent criminals to attack everyone - both gun owners and non-owners alike.

    In Los Angeles, during the 1992 "Rodney King Riots," police abandoned entire neighborhoods. Live TV broadcasts showed hoodlums burning homes and businesses, and dragging innocent motorists from their cars - beating and killing them. The only thing that prevented entire communities from being burned to the ground were community residents barricading their streets and using their guns to protect their homes and families.

    In fact, the Supreme Court has ruled that you, as an individual, have no right to protection by the police. Their only obligation is to protect "society" - what-ever that means. So if you want to protect your home and family, you have to rely upon yourself. And self defense does work, for example:

    "Her family taken hostage by her daughter's ex-boyfriend, Barbara Holt of Kearns, Utah and her husband were threatened with death, then forced into the bathroom of their home. When the man, armed with a rifle, went into the kitchen with her daughter, Holt slipped into the bedroom and got her .22 pistol. Holt fired a single shot, hitting the assailant in the head, stopping the attack." [From the Salt Lake City Tribune.]

    "Thomas Terry of Anniston, Alabama was eating in a local restaurant late one evening when several armed men came in and announced a robbery. As the robbers tried to herd everyone into a walk-in cooler, Terry tried to escape through a locked door but alerted the crooks to his presence. When one approached the table where he was hiding, Terry pulled his .45, killed that man in an exchange of shots, and wounded his accomplice. A third criminal fled." [The Star, Anniston, Alabama]

    Every day, thousands of peaceful Americans successfully use guns to defend themselves. A recent study by Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck found that Americans use guns defensively 2.5 million times a year.

    As long as you are peaceful, learn how to use your guns safely, and take reasonable precautions to keep them out of the hands of children and criminals, a gun in the house makes you safer and could save your life if you are attacked.

    Disarming otherwise law-abiding citizens would simply put us at the mercy of well-armed criminals. Given a choice between obeying the law and being able to continue to defend our homes, our families, and our lives - millions of Americans will gladly break the law. Many already do.

    Gun prohibition won't keep guns out of the hands of criminals or make us safe. But the attempt to ban guns could destroy this nation. The image of paramilitary SWAT-teams invading our homes to confiscate our guns is abhorrent to everything America stands for. Yet that is precisely where gun prohibition is taking us.

    The bitter irony of gun prohibition is that laws intended to make America safe could spark the bloodiest violence in our history. Gun prohibition is not good for you, your family, or America.

  21. #101
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    that person was unprepared since they didn't have an arsenal of weapons and a legion of lawyer's on retainer.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    plus in most places in the world it isn't your right to own a gun.
    It's also not a right to kill off thousands but they did that in Rawanda and now in the Sudan...it's strong who prey on the weak...and if the rest of the world has shown us in the states anything of value is that a disarmed society is a weak society.

  23. #103
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    ok. yeah, so fascism is a good idea. why don't we just stage a preemptive nuclear strike on everyone so that they can never fuck with us in the possible future?

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    I agree with the last three points. but I digress, does that call for a gun? if I have a shootout with someone it's not very likely that I will be able to defend myself without suffering much harm.
    Don't forget that it really is your right to take a non-violent unarmed approach to the world if that is what makes you happy. There is nothing wrong with you making that choice for yourself. Nobody is forcing a firearm in your hand. Freedom is about people's ability to follow their own path. You are free to choose yours. There is nothing wrong with that.

  25. #105
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    this debate is pointless, look if you need a gun to solve your problems then you are a pussy. real men get naked and play poker, or something. who cares? I don't even fucking care anymore. we're all going to die someday, I for one would rather try and be positive, not instigate and encourage armed conflicts, and if someone wants to shoot me dead, then yes, that is thier right, and if it happens it happens. peace out.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    ok. yeah, so fascism is a good idea. why don't we just stage a preemptive nuclear strike on everyone so that they can never fuck with us in the possible future?
    I think you are not understanding the the difference between having an attack/defense capability, and using it inappropriately.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    this debate is pointless, look if you need a gun to solve your problems then you are a pussy. real men get naked and play poker, or something. who cares? I don't even fucking care anymore. we're all going to die someday, I for one would rather try and be positive, not instigate and encourage armed conflicts, and if someone wants to shoot me dead, then yes, that is thier right, and if it happens it happens. peace out.
    Not everyone is a big strong man, capable of using their fists or feet. Sometimes big strong men victimize the otherwise powerless. If the problem is being attacked or oppressed and having a gun and the skill to use it could prevent that from happening, how pussy is that? You are a pussy if you can protect the things that you have and the ones that you love? I don't follow that at all.

  28. #108
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    yes. if you were hardcore, you wouldn't love anything.

  29. #109
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    yes. if you were hardcore, you wouldn't love anything.

  30. #110
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    I'm just kidding. but seriously though, I don't really care that much about my possestions, if you really want them you can have em. and the people that I love have to take care of themselves, it's not like I don't care, but I can't guard them 24/7.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
    lol.. i gave up a few posts back. i'm not even gonna bother explaining and rehashing something over and over to someone who is purposefully trying their damndest to not understand logic.

  32. #112
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    ok. yeah, so fascism is a good idea. why don't we just stage a preemptive nuclear strike on everyone so that they can never fuck with us in the possible future?
    See that's the thing...you can't seem to think about guns outside of the limited understanding you have about them. So of course this must make those who support an armed society a "Fascist" one...

    Do your history...Nazi Germany had very severe gun control laws an unarmed it's people.

    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to posses arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." -Adolph Hitler 1938

    While the following simplify things a bit...they at least get to the point.

    1911 Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    1929 The Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    1935 China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    1938 Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 6 to 7 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and 12 million Christians who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    1956 Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    1964 Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    1970 Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

  33. #113
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    I'm just kidding. but seriously though, I don't really care that much about my possestions, if you really want them you can have em. and the people that I love have to take care of themselves, it's not like I don't care, but I can't guard them 24/7.
    WOOOOOOOOSH. that is the sound of the entire point of this thread flying over your head at the speed of light.

    I know where you're coming from. You don't agree with guns because guns hurt people and people should make the moral decision to not use guns to harm others, and you feel that only pussies hide behind guns and "real men" don't need guns because they are honourable and will die a proud and honourable death before resorting to using a firearm to harm another human being.

    you only need to read the article i posted (the last post on page two of this thread) to understand the point we are trying to make. Please read it.

  34. #114
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
    Do your history...Nazi Germany had very severe gun control laws an unarmed it's people.
    exactly. Disarming their citizens was the first step towards genocide.

  35. #115
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    man, you guys are assholes. apparently since I believe in using peace, and have never had to shoot at anyone, I am so narrow minded and have such a limited understanding, this is like the third time that I have been told what your talking about is too complex for my understanding. Ok. OK. everyone should own a gun, and they should shoot whoever tries to fuck with them fulla lead while spitting tobbaco into a spitoon and walkin with a cocky swagger. better? Isn't that what You want to hear?

  36. #116
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Clarification on the Nazi gun control thing to keep things accurate (damned edit button)...Gun Control laws by the Weimar government were already in effect...

    Side note: The following quote is used a lot by anti gun control advocates but it is bogus...

    "This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" - Adolf Hitler

    Makes for a nice bumper sticker though.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by GasmaskGirl
    If banning guns worked, Washington, DC and New York City would be the safest cities in the country. Since 1976, it's been illegal in Washington, DC to own any handguns or to keep any type of gun in your home unlocked and fully assembled. However, Washington, DC is the "murder capital of the United States."
    Indeed. I was mugged once in downtown D.C., between the punk show and the metro station. Punched right in the face by a man that claimed to have a gun. During that time period, the D.C. officials were cracking down on any kind of "weapon". A lot of the punks used to carry mace, but they stopped because they would just get in too much trouble during routine harassment. Now, I decided that it was more worthwhile to give the man the whole $5 I had on me and not endanger my date, but I don't think he would have had the balls to do that in Virginia. He knew he had a better chance of getting away with it downtown, because law abiding people follow the laws and will be weaker if the laws tell them too.

  38. #118
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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morning Glory
    man, you guys are assholes. apparently since I believe in using peace, and have never had to shoot at anyone, I am so narrow minded and have such a limited understanding, this is like the third time that I have been told what your talking about is too complex for my understanding. Ok. OK. everyone should own a gun, and they should shoot whoever tries to fuck with them fulla lead while spitting tobbaco into a spitoon and walkin with a cocky swagger. better? Isn't that what You want to hear?
    sweeping generalizations are totally rad.

    no. that's not what we want to hear.

    we aren't telling you to kill people. we aren't saying killing people is right. we aren't telling you to own a gun.

    we're simply asking that you don't take away our rights.

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    Quote Originally Posted by GasmaskGirl

    we aren't telling you to kill people. we aren't saying killing people is right. we aren't telling you to own a gun.

    we're simply asking that you don't take away our rights.
    *Claps*

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    Default Re: What do you think of the ban on certain types of guns being lifted?

    ok. that's cool. and I'm just saying that maybe in addiction to owning a sidearm, people could try to take the initiatve to work out solutions without violence if possible, so that maybe someday we wouldn't have to have guns and live in fear of people trying to murder us. that might not be realisitic, but it sure is a lot better than the way things are going now.

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