Do you hate to see people like you succeed -- Why Adam Lambert might not win American Idol

[The Newswire]

If you are alt-identified, yet want Kris Allen to beat Adam Lambert in this week's American Idol finale, then you are complicit in your own oppression. Rebels who want Adam Lambert to lose must just hate themselves.

People like to fuss about sex and sexuality, but...

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[Amelia G]

I want to write a follow-up article to this, but I can't quite hit post. Sort of surprised this topic did not generate a lot of discussion.

[Raza]

What is it with you and this guy? Srsly. I don't see any 'mix of subcultures gothic, punk, hard rock, rockabilly, emo, scene and more blended together for something unique and compelling' anywhere. The guy is like, emo lite, with two or three of the lowest threshold alt-style elements there are, each of them professionally polished to edgelessness.

If he'd gone around american idol painted glittery blue like in your pics of him, I'd give him some credit. But he's obviously toned down to suit his would-be audience, and that's not a message I sympathise with.


But enough rant; on the subject of 'success'; I don't think mainstream and counterculture success can just be measured by the same standards. Getting rich, scoring platinum records, winning american freaking idol - these things aren't counterculture success; they're mainstream success. And while mainstream success holds the inherent appeal of being widely recognised, it is by no means the be all and end all of artistic and cultural value.

And of course, I'm not saying you should avoid these things. They can be like, fringe benefits, without getting in the way of more important things. But as far as Lambert's spotlight goes, mainstream success is the only thing he's out to win - so seeing him all sanitized and declawed for popular appeal in pursuit of it isn't a 'victory for counterculture', just mainstream success won using its appeal. And I don't hate to see him do that, people should do what they want and culture is always dynamic, constantly redefining itself - if he's made black eyeliner and nailpolish a bit more mainstream, goth or whatever you consider it to be taken from will have expanded itself in six different directions in the meantime. But while he's doing that, he's not appealing to my appreciation of counterculture.

The only way you could be on american idol and counterculture is if you're completely prepared to lose, in it just for the fun of doing what you want and confronting a large audience with it. So maybe it's not that alt people don't want him to succeed. Maybe they just imagine success differently.

[Vexbeast]

I was about to ask who here is expected to identify with that guy... who is pretty lame, to be honest, but... screw it. The topic's just not interesting.

That said, I happened to see the finale. Haven't seen any other episodes, so I'm no expert, but that Kris guy's singing is HORRIBLE. Wth?

[VoldtaEngler]

Originally Posted by Raza

emo lite

Lol.

Originally Posted by Raza

I don't think mainstream and counterculture success can just be measured by the same standards. Getting rich, scoring platinum records... these things aren't counterculture success

I haven't been able to watch AI this year, but I caught a lot of his performances online. I like his vocals honestly, even if he dressed like a nerd. Susan Boyle surprised everybody, so why can't Adam?

There's been a a number of mainstream meets counterculture bands that are famous/semi famous/well off than a 9-5.

Depeche Mode is one. The Cure also (music is in commercials for HP, movies, 311 even covered them). Rob Zombie (music in films, and of course his directorial debuts), NIN (music used for dozens of films including Se7vn, 300, Lost Highway) etc.

I think more people nowadays are a little counterculture in the closet..I mean somebody was watching Twilight enough to overload shelves with shirts and lunchbags.

[Raza]

Counterculture/underground success and mainstream success don't preclude one another; they're just not interchangeable. You can have both, very occasionally even pursue both simultaneously if you think it out well. But Depeche Mode and the Cure don't get a response at a goth club because they're recognised for being used in commercials, and Lambert can't expect alt celebration for scoring high on american idol.

Also, I'd say closet counterculture is a bit of a contradiction in terms. Subculture, maybe, but it's not counterculture if you're adapting to avoid clashing with the mainstream.

[Amelia G]

I think I got a lot of my ideals from my parents, but one place we really differed is that they are big believers in what they call protective coloring. They feel like you open yourself up for too much danger and too many problems, if you look externally as different as you feel or think on the inside. I think I'm with Voldta in that people can have counterculture souls without necessarily having either the opportunity or the courage to externally express.

Ironically, some of the mainstreaming of counterculture style now means that there are people who think and feel in utterly conformist lockstep on the inside, but look interesting and iconoclastic on the outside.

I really liked that I didn't feel like Adam Lambert totally sanitized for American Idol. He maybe dressed more appropriately for it and I saw cynicism in some of his alternating one rockin' song with a great outfit with one slow song with a more early Elvis wholesome outfit. I don't feel like I'm totally losing out if I dress differently to go to the dentist vs. a fetish ball. When a ton of media was making a big deal about OMG-there-are-pictures-of-Adam-Lambert-painted-glittery-and-same-sex-kissing, he made no apologies for who he is.

[VoldtaEngler]

Originally Posted by Amelia G

OMG-there-are-pictures-of-Adam-Lambert-painted-glittery-and-same-sex-kissing, he made no apologies for who he is.

And he shouldn't ever have too.

Originally Posted by Amelia G

people can have counterculture souls without necessarily having either the opportunity or the courage to externally express.

Of course!

Exhibit A:


B:

*photos from the book Inked Inc. Tattooed Professionals

[OliX]

VoldtaEngler reminded me of the brain surgeon I partied with couple weeks ago
It was only in the end of the after-after party that we started to talk about our life.... until then I thought he was just a typical raver.

[nathanmbailey]

Shit, if I had a picture of me in my dress uniform, I'd give example C.

I didn't vote because... well, I couldn't and if I could I don't give a shit. I haven't heard any of it and don't really want to bother. I hate American Idol, America's Got Talent, that country knock-off of American Idol and all those shows.

[Buster Friendly]

I had a more detailed response get e't by the interwebs a few days ago, but in a nutshell-

Adam Lambert is not a person like me.

He's got the emo-animie weaboo hair, so no.

We are not the same.

He's an American Idol.

And I'm a sick asshole.

(Remember when members of different subcultures used to try to kill each other on sight?)

That said, his success, or lack affects me in no way. Good luck to him, I hope he wins.

[toxicat]

When I was in Paris modeling and acting I saw friends of mine on the big screen and I said to my photographer (in French, of course), "That's encouraging to see. It tells me that if they can do it so can I", and he replied, "not necessarily".

[VoldtaEngler]

Originally Posted by Buster Friendly

That said, his success, or lack affects me in no way. Good luck to him, I hope he wins.

The contest ended a week or two ago.. he was runner up.