What has happen to the West

So Head Wreck lets keep this topic alive, see where it goes as we do agree on the issues.


Head Wreck not to point this out, but halfway through the last century. You had less immigration, and more Anglo Celtic population.Those who immigrated became apart British culture. Rather now, It seems that the British culture value and its pride isnt there. Same thing here in the US, we lacking the pride as we ones had.

What has happen to western world? Or lets just say our 2 nation that are interlink by history.

Could be that people are now ashamed of our piss-poor foriegn policy of the last three decades that have made us a hated joke to the rest of the world.

Today I was watching a History channel show about the Greek-Persian war. The commentator said something along the lines of "If it wasn't for the Spartans and the Athenians, we may not have had western civilization and democracy as we know it today."

And I thought about it, just what has western civilization and democracy brought to world? We still have constant warfare, people starving, and you and me are just peasant serfs working till the day we die for the land lord. Is there really such a vast leap forward in the last 3,000 years?

Meet the new king/president/boss, same as the old king/president/boss.

Yeah, today people live over 40, we got Ipods and we got pollution everywhere. That's about it.

So when you put it like that... Fuck Thermopalae.

also made me think of SLC Punk.

The sun never sets on the British Empire?

well, the sun never sets on my asshole.

empires never last. and just as there is no light without dark, things have to be shitty before they get better. i think we are coming near that point in our sociological timeline.

as apathy increases things get worse, to the point here people cant do anything but sit up and take notice, the Fuel Price Speculation, increasing costs of living and another depression just kicking off is having an impact on general peoples want to know more, and desire to get involved (even though i still seem to be the youngest by 40 years at my MP's surgery, and its my generation and my parents which moan the most).

but i do agree with you on the national pride thing. people here are ashamed of the way their government handles things, and lets face it, GWB is a better person on the international stage than Gordon Brown (his endless publicity stunts he doesn't forewarn his diplomats of, many have heard on national news or press questions first). people are asked to take down flags of the individual nation states "incase it offends".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morning Glory

Could be that people are now ashamed of our piss-poor foriegn policy of the last three decades that have made us a hated joke to the rest of the world.

Today I was watching a History channel show about the Greek-Persian war. The commentator said something along the lines of "If it wasn't for the Spartans and the Athenians, we may not have had western civilization and democracy as we know it today."

And I thought about it, just what has western civilization and democracy brought to world? We still have constant warfare, people starving, and you and me are just peasant serfs working till the day we die for the land lord. Is there really such a vast leap forward in the last 3,000 years?

Meet the new king/president/boss, same as the old king/president/boss.

Yeah, today people live over 40, we got Ipods and we got pollution everywhere. That's about it.

So when you put it like that... Fuck Thermopalae.

---

Morning Glory from the 1990s on, that was when the US start to really become joke to the world. We have not shown the resolve nor backbone to stick with something. That is on both side of the political compass, 1st Iraq war, Bosnia, Mogadishu, 1st bombing on WTC ect.


Sparta was, above all, a militarist state and was not democracy pre-say. Athens, democracy in there most direct forms, 471bc-330bc which is about 150 years. About 350s bc when you had Macedonia come in, Then came Alexander , which took the city of Athens around 340s.

Now during the same time period, you had the City state of Rome which had different means of government a Republic. 500s bc - 27bc that was the life of Roman Republic 400 odd years. Now It know it maybe the history channel, but that is really half truth.Sparta stood for western world and the unseen republic, which most of the western world governments are based off. Parliament or Legislative Assemblies are more a form of a republic, than a democracy.

Democracy evolved into the idea of the republic, you could not have one with out the other. So there is Half truth...


Morning Glory as you have ask what has Democracy brought to world? Look around you, help to build foundation of governments. Furthermore, freedom of political expression, freedom of speech and freedom of the press are essential so that citizens are informed and able to vote in their personal interests. Thought the idea of Republic, you have rights, when you typed this, the right to express yourself. Look at the Bill of Right for the US. It has help humanity, that is how democracy/republic has help the world. 2500 years we have made great leaps.



Doesn't matter what political structure or government, there will always be warfare and people starving and you can not solve that. You can only fight it! Yes, that sad fact, but it is truth.

It is always in your power to make the chose of being a serf or not...That the reason I only work for myself, and my interest.

They let the Republicans at the public purse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bacchus88

It is always in your power to make the chose of being a serf or not...That the reason I only work for myself, and my interest.

---

are you a Rothschild?:)

no Karl, but thank you for asking that. Ill have to look into that more, had to look it up.

No Karl, just 3rd generation business owner its in my blood. I think different from everyone else......So Rothschild think on the same lines as I do huh?

biker.
They let the Democrat at the public purse. Less of the 2 evils, it doesnt matter really. Just who you think is the less of the evils. Public Purse is far game in the political world.

I cant wait until the day where I see everyone join in where race, or country will not be an issue







,,,,,but thats just me

I remember something my Grandfather told me once.

Half of Europe was lit up from the fall out of Chernobyl, The Soviets initially were issuing vehement denials. Finally, the lies stopped working. They announced that, indeed, a nuclear fallout had occurred.

"It's over ___ It's over."

He knew that once that truth had been told, a million more whispered about would follow. The USSR would soon wither and die.

The west, led by the U.S., would soon formally win the Cold War. We were not the same west, however. At some point, our courage was replaced by hubris. America was based on a creed that could transcend the cultures that composed it. It is not the fault of immigrants seeking a better life. It is incumbent on our generation to rediscover the creed and practice it in a way that uplifts people. It cannot be based on divisions between races, genders, or any other categories we put people in.

If we fail to do so, a creeping thought will plague us. Did we snatch defeat from victory? Time will tell. Lies are plastered across billboards and televison screens. I hope it doesn't take a Chernobyl for the truth to will out. By then, it will have been too late.

OEC

Russia was brought down by Al-Qaeda: who moored them down in a hideously expensive war in Afghanistan. They bankrupted themselves chasing a few guys in turbans who would either fire off a 22c squirrel round at some guy in a uniform or send a videotape containing threats against the state around Tora Bora. Said turban dude would simply vanish. Bombing the mountain range or sending tanks across the mountains would turn up exactly zero.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

Does this sound familiar? Bin Laden was cheering that the Bushies NOT ONLY ARE FALLING FOR THE SAME TRICK but using it as an excuse to loot the shit out of the credit cards to enrich themselves. They say their plan is going better than expected.

But when you listen to the Wal Mart Nation's guru, Lush Rambo, the Golden microphoned excellence in broadcasting on loan from God fuckwit claims that it's because RONALD RAYGUN (he crosses himself as he says this) had the tenacity and ferocity to loot Social Security - I mean, to tell the Russians to tear down that wall. Or something.

Then again, Lush is a drug addict and a high school dropout with absolutely no intelligence whatsoever, but he's a great shill for the Military Industrial Complex.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Russia was brought down by Al-Qaeda: who moored them down in a hideously expensive war in Afghanistan. They bankrupted themselves chasing a few guys in turbans who would either fire off a 22c squirrel round at some guy in a uniform or send a videotape containing threats against the state around Tora Bora. Said turban dude would simply vanish. Bombing the mountain range or sending tanks across the mountains would turn up exactly zero.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

Does this sound familiar? Bin Laden was cheering that the Bushies NOT ONLY ARE FALLING FOR THE SAME TRICK but using it as an excuse to loot the shit out of the credit cards to enrich themselves. They say their plan is going better than expected.

But when you listen to the Wal Mart Nation's guru, Lush Rambo, the Golden microphoned excellence in broadcasting on loan from God fuckwit claims that it's because RONALD RAYGUN (he crosses himself as he says this) had the tenacity and ferocity to loot Social Security - I mean, to tell the Russians to tear down that wall. Or something.

Then again, Lush is a drug addict and a high school dropout with absolutely no intelligence whatsoever, but he's a great shill for the Military Industrial Complex.

---

Well, sure. The external causes for the demise of that empire are numerous. Afghanistan. 71% of GDP going to Soviet defense as Reagan turned up the heat. Like you said, though, the lies are eerily similar. The sad thing being the USSR did not have the moral right to exist, anyways. Millions of souls were slain upon a phony ideal. I tend to wonder at what point we may be being losing ours. The final exit would thus be basically the same.

OEC

Hell, we're not spending that part of our GDP --- we're BORROWING it. $5,000 a second if I remember.

So that a few of Bush's Skull and Bones pals can have no-bid contracts to plunder the oil fields at $200 a barrel.

Mission accomplished.

The main problem with the wars in Iraq/Afghan apart from ethical is internal corruption.

Halliburton and the other fellows over there? Yeah they've been caught sending mail trucks with ONE PIECE OF MAIL. Trucks with NOTHING in them etc to make more money.

They'll buy their employees brand-new luxury SUV's for -no- reason other then to inflate parent companies incomes.

They put people up in high class, luxury hotels, dodge taxes through clever lawyers and steal, steal, steal metric fucktons of money.

Besides that they send over incompetent workers with no special training. I'm talking guys fresh from college who know arabic being told to run prisons. Yeah thats a psyche experiment waiting to happen.

The greed of the corporations is the real reason we're in such a financial pickle. They have so much capital they can steamroll any bill against them. Drown naysayers and opponents in money/legal fees/court cases. They can commit absolutely deplorable acts over in those countries and not be held accountable for their actions. Its disgusting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bacchus88

No Karl, just 3rd generation business owner its in my blood. I think different from everyone else......So Rothschild think on the same lines as I do huh?

.

---

uh.......read up on how they made thier money and you tell me.