General Wesley Clark Dies :)

Politically :1orglaugh :thumb:

Sunday morning on CBS News, Clark argued that John McCain’s military experience — and his years as a prisoner of war — in no way qualified him to be president. Following his appearance, one prominent liberal blog, apparently seeing the genie as out of the bottle, launched into a considerably harsher attacks on McCain’s service headlined “Honestly, besides being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?”

“On a scale of 1 to 10, Clark’s words were a 10 in terms of unhelpfulness,” said one Democrat who has helped manage past presidential campaigns.

At first, Clark moved aggressively to defend his remarks, scheduling additional press appearances and even updating his Facebook status to “Wes Clark knows that John McCain is largely untested and untried when it comes to matters of national security.”

But now Clark is looking to put the remarks behind him. The former NATO supreme allied commander and 2004 Democratic primary candidate is “moving on,” said a close aide, who added that Clark can now “devote his time to the business affairs which pay the bills.”

From: http://www.politico.com

I generally refrain from making statements on anything remotely partisan, but, whether one agrees with Wesley Clark or not, I think Four Star General Wesley Clark, with his military service to the United States of America, has earned the right to express his opinion:

Not only did he serve in Vietnam as well, but Wesley Clark is one of our most decorated military officers since WWII. He led the forces which pacified Kosovo and stopped a genocide.

From his web site: "Clark is a four-star general who has been awarded the Silver Star, five Defense Distinguished Service Medals, four Legion of Merit Awards, two Army Distinguished Service Medals, two Bronze Star Medals and the Purple Heart.

In addition to numerous civilian honors, General Clark has received more than 20 major international awards including honorary Knighthoods from the British and Dutch governments and was made a Commander of the French Legion of Honor."

He may be right or wrong about his opinion. But all Americans have a guaranteed right to express most of our opinions, even if they are unpopular ones. Wesley Clark said nothing libelous, nor did he yell fire in a crowded a theatre. And, with his military record, Wesley Clark may have a little extra right to express his opinion on this subject. He earned it.

I agree that he has every right to express his opinion, but saying that was fucking stupid, especially since the candidate he is supporting has no military experience at all, which a lot of voters seem to think is important for some reason.

I don't see how this is political death, sounds like he has a sure thing position with the democrats after that comment.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

I generally refrain from making statements on anything remotely partisan, but, whether one agrees with Wesley Clark or not, I think Four Star General Wesley Clark, with his military service to the United States of America, has earned the right to express his opinion:

Not only did he serve in Vietnam as well, but Wesley Clark is one of our most decorated military officers since WWII. He led the forces which pacified Kosovo and stopped a genocide.

From his web site: "Clark is a four-star general who has been awarded the Silver Star, five Defense Distinguished Service Medals, four Legion of Merit Awards, two Army Distinguished Service Medals, two Bronze Star Medals and the Purple Heart.

In addition to numerous civilian honors, General Clark has received more than 20 major international awards including honorary Knighthoods from the British and Dutch governments and was made a Commander of the French Legion of Honor."

He may be right or wrong about his opinion. But all Americans have a guaranteed right to express most of our opinions, even if they are unpopular ones. Wesley Clark said nothing libelous, nor did he yell fire in a crowded a theatre. And, with his military record, Wesley Clark may have a little extra right to express his opinion on this subject. He earned it.

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I never said he didn't have the right to express his opinion. I am simply enjoying the ramifications of him so doing. I did not, at any point, denigrate his service. I am simply happy he will likely not be a major player in American Politics.

OEC

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

I don't see how this is political death, sounds like he has a sure thing position with the democrats after that comment.

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He has made a lot of gaffes. I am fairly certain he has babbled his way out of a VP slot with this. I am completely for Obama. I am glad Clark is distancing himself from the campaign.

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Originally Posted by Kidthorazine

I agree that he has every right to express his opinion, but saying that was fucking stupid, especially since the candidate he is supporting has no military experience at all, which a lot of voters seem to think is important for some reason.

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Exactly. Freedom to speech does not imply freedom from criticism (even for decorated Generals thankfully).

OEC

There are certain groups of people these days that could record someone representing their opposition asking someone else where the bathroom is and they could play it so often on the TV that people would start to think the recordee had some sort of bathroom problem. Don't fall for sound bite journalism. They ran Howard Dean out of the running just by playing a slightly off tone sound of excitement. It wasn't even really a word and people heard it played with words of disapproval and they bought into it. Can that really be good for our country? Let's try not to be that susceptible to tonal arguments. The facts of the statement are not nearly as damnable as what too many 'journalists' are making them out to be.

You can agree with him or not agree with him, support him or not support him, I'm not even saying people should or shouldn't agree with his whole statement in context, but I think people should be judged on facts rather than nonsense.

General Wesley Clark's statement and the reaction:
http://www.veracifier.com/episode/TPM_20080701

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

There are certain groups of people these days that could record someone representing their opposition asking someone else where the bathroom is and they could play it so often on the TV that people would start to think the recordee had some sort of bathroom problem. Don't fall for sound bite journalism. They ran Howard Dean out of the running just by playing a slightly off tone sound of excitement. It wasn't even really a word and people heard it played with words of disapproval and they bought into it. Can that really be good for our country? Let's try not to be that susceptible to tonal arguments. The facts of the statement are not nearly as damnable as what too many 'journalists' are making them out to be.

You can agree with him or not agree with him, support him or not support him, I'm not even saying people should or shouldn't agree with his whole statement in context, but I think people should be judged on facts rather than nonsense.

General Wesley Clark's statement and the reaction:
http://www.veracifier.com/episode/TPM_20080701

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I disagree with Clark more on previous policy positions. I have followed his political "career" since he was first mentioned for President. It isn't a matter of my own take on his statements. My opinion of him was not even affected by the statements. Regardless, the American public will judge him accordingly. That's just a political reality.

OEC

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

There are certain groups of people these days that could record someone representing their opposition asking someone else where the bathroom is and they could play it so often on the TV that people would start to think the recordee had some sort of bathroom problem. Don't fall for sound bite journalism. They ran Howard Dean out of the running just by playing a slightly off tone sound of excitement. It wasn't even really a word and people heard it played with words of disapproval and they bought into it. Can that really be good for our country? Let's try not to be that susceptible to tonal arguments. The facts of the statement are not nearly as damnable as what too many 'journalists' are making them out to be.

You can agree with him or not agree with him, support him or not support him, I'm not even saying people should or shouldn't agree with his whole statement in context, but I think people should be judged on facts rather than nonsense.

General Wesley Clark's statement and the reaction:
http://www.veracifier.com/episode/TPM_20080701

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While I agree with this, it was still stupid precisely because of soundbite journalism, and as a politician he should have damn well aware of that, if you get in that game you have to be prepared to have everything you say skewed and taken out of context, which is why politicians nowadays tend to focus more on catchphrases and clear concise little soundbites. It's bullshit, but that's how it works nowadays. This is kinda like how a bunch of people think Al Gore said he invented the internet, that's probably the most well known example of this sort of thing and people should really be aware of it by now.

reminds me of Arrested Development. Gob, the crappy magician makes a senior citizen disappear, really, and then can't find him again. And then when he's asked about it by reporters he says, " I know what you are trying to do. Don't edit this out so that it makes it look like I'm saying 'I killed that guy!' "

and then of course the news is precisely, no editing required, him saying "I killed that guy!" haha

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Originally Posted by Kidthorazine

While I agree with this, it was still stupid precisely because of soundbite journalism, and as a politician he should have damn well aware of that, if you get in that game you have to be prepared to have everything you say skewed and taken out of context, which is why politicians nowadays tend to focus more on catchphrases and clear concise little soundbites. It's bullshit, but that's how it works nowadays. This is kinda like how a bunch of people think Al Gore said he invented the internet, that's probably the most well known example of this sort of thing and people should really be aware of it by now.

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Clark has had 10 years to learn the fickle nature of the media. He made similar gaffes during his asswhooping in the 2004 democratic nomination. Like it or not, it requires more intelligence and grace than the General possesses to be an asset to a political campaign. I am enjoying his (now self-admitted) departure from the public stage immensely. :1orglaugh :thumb: