If someone does something terrible . . .

If someone you know does something terrible to someone else you know -- but they do not do it to you -- does that change your view of them or relationship with them?

Like, if you are friends with someone, and they do something really awful to someone who did not deserve to be treated that way, how do you react? Do you feel less of a bond of friendship with them or trust them less? Do you figure it was someone else's situation and has no bearing on yours? Do you try to ignore it but keep it in mind? Do you try to maintain the relationship, but minimize placing trust in that person?

that is such a situational thing, i cant really give a blanket answer.

if they were two friends of mine who went through a tough breakup (this actually has happened to me) and one or both of them has a broken heart, I'll do my best to be good friends to the both of them. maybe more sympathetic to the one who's hurting. However, they are consentual adults.... fights, emotional pain are parts of life.

if someone were to get drunk and physically assault another friend... steal, slander, etc... then yes, that would change my relationship with that person as well.

Makes me fear how long until I'm on the receiving end.

I agree with drewblood.

Though probably I would most likely still look at the person the same way as before. My friends hold the titles of "friends" for a pretty good reason. I know them for a long time and I also know their "dark sides" of personalities.

And if such a situation happens with people I just know... Well, I keep such information in my mind and act cautiously. But that caution is always... I like gathering information about people around me, that way I know who I am dealing with.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

If someone you know does something terrible to someone else you know -- but they do not do it to you -- does that change your view of them or relationship with them?

Like, if you are friends with someone, and they do something really awful to someone who did not deserve to be treated that way, how do you react? Do you feel less of a bond of friendship with them or trust them less? Do you figure it was someone else's situation and has no bearing on yours? Do you try to ignore it but keep it in mind? Do you try to maintain the relationship, but minimize placing trust in that person?

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It ALWAYS depends on the situation at hand. If someone I know turns out to be an asshole....Yeah...I'm apt to cut them off. The older I get, the less time I have or patience to deal with that crap. There's always new friends around the bend....

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Originally Posted by Velvet-Tongue

Makes me fear how long until I'm on the receiving end.

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That hits the nail on the head of the sort of thing I worry about. I mean, people have break-ups and that sort of thing all the time. But, if someone does something really awful and uncalled-for to someone else, it makes me wonder if they would do the same to me and it is just a matter of time.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

That hits the nail on the head of the sort of thing I worry about. I mean, people have break-ups and that sort of thing all the time. But, if someone does something really awful and uncalled-for to someone else, it makes me wonder if they would do the same to me and it is just a matter of time.

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humans are quite often creatures of habit.... we tend to repeat our mistakes and behaviors... time many vary between "incidents" but it will usually happen again...

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

That hits the nail on the head of the sort of thing I worry about. I mean, people have break-ups and that sort of thing all the time. But, if someone does something really awful and uncalled-for to someone else, it makes me wonder if they would do the same to me and it is just a matter of time.

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I recently watched this happen among folks I wasn't close to, and don't have to deal with if I do not choose to.

It definitely gives me cause to deal with them warily in the future if at all, and confirms a general sense of unease that I had about the perpetrator but couldn't quite prove. This was a person who carefully crafted a public image, and personae that was geared to be fair, and honest, while in fact they were fucking over their closest friend in a pretty awful way.

I have learned from personal experience that if I ignore known malefactors, and just brush off their past misdeeds I could very well end up their next target if I don't keep them at arm's length.

Just my two cents.

people like that aren't really the sort of people I can be bothered befriending

I tend to... need time to think about things. If I really really felt close with the person, I'll 'sit' them down and try to talk about it. Or ask them straight then what the hell is wrong with them.

Alot of friendships end the moment you disagree with someone, but I always feel that saying what is on your mind, and a healthy argument are a part of loving people.

It all depends on what they have to say for themselves, what the circumstances where, and if they were wrong, how willing they are to admit/fix it.

If they don't seem sorry for the cruel behavior, I frequently pull away. I really can't use friends that are very dangerous in that way, as I'm a bit sensitive to being crushed by people I trust.

However, I'm hypocritically open to people that utterly adore me and treat me with kid gloves, but seem angry and mean to the outside world.

It pays to be objective to the situation. That said, you can't really make a fair call without knowing all the variables of the relationship between the two people, which just won't happen.

I don't judge people by what they do to me or by what they do to others, but more what they do to people (including me), what I think of those people, and what I believe they think of those people.

That gets the best results for me, but other people are probably different. -shrug-

theres no point in being friends with people that are like that in the first place. i think velvet tounge is prety much dead on

Kill, kill, kill of the jungle
Cool as he can be
(riff repeats, with brass)
WATCH OUT FOR THAT TREE!!!!!

(I've been thinking that for weeks, needed to get it out of my system and figured this thread would be the place. Are you guys still my friends, awful though that was?)

The point is, the person hasn't changed. You haven't changed. All that's happened is you know something you didn't know the day before. If said person is now suddenly different in your eyes, then I guess it says more about how carefully you choose your friends.

Everyone has done something to someone that would seem horrible in someone else's hindsight. Fine, so they killed their granny. They're a psycho beeatch murderer, and you should cancel those movie tickets for Friday night.

They were a psycho beeatch murderer last Friday too, and you had a great time out with them.

I'd speak out, probably. My 'friends' are either just people I hang with in 'the scene' - people that I value for social interaction but would hardly mind upsetting for the sake of an interesting confrontation and a chance to speak my mind - or they're people I actually like and implicitly reasonable enough by my own standards that I'd have a good shot at getting my point across.

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Originally Posted by Mindgames

The point is, the person hasn't changed. You haven't changed. All that's happened is you know something you didn't know the day before. If said person is now suddenly different in your eyes, then I guess it says more about how carefully you choose your friends.

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So what basis do you choose your friends on, exactly, if not ongoing observation of their behaviour and personalities? Are you supposed to have reached a point where you should have learned everything there is to know about someone, and where any further surprises reflect badly on you, before you can call them a 'friend'? Despite the fact that people change throughout their lifetimes, and most people have not even reached such an intimate familiarity with themselves?

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Kill, kill, kill of the jungle
Cool as he can be
(riff repeats, with brass)
WATCH OUT FOR THAT TREE!!!!!

(I've been thinking that for weeks, needed to get it out of my system and figured this thread would be the place. Are you guys still my friends, awful though that was?)

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I'm still your friend.

But one day, completely out-of-the-blue, I'm going to remember this, reach through the internet and slap you.

Depends. Usually I'm cool with people unless they've done something to me directly. I would definitely keep it in mind though (whatever they had done), and be a little wary.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Kill, kill, kill of the jungle
Cool as he can be
(riff repeats, with brass)
WATCH OUT FOR THAT TREE!!!!!

(I've been thinking that for weeks, needed to get it out of my system and figured this thread would be the place. Are you guys still my friends, awful though that was?)

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Us or KiLAtomik? He's the guy who might not be that happy about it...

In the same vein though....:set to music: Wrap KiL-A-tomiK round that old oak tree...

Shit, BP, you are such a bad influence!

My point is that you can never know 'everything' about a person, so it's an illogical premise to base your opinion of them on what partial information you have. Today you hear he killed his granny. Tomorrow you hear it was in an auto wreck. Next year you find out it was the other driver's fault.

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Originally Posted by Raza

So what basis do you choose your friends on, exactly, if not ongoing observation of their behaviour and personalities? Are you supposed to have reached a point where you should have learned everything there is to know about someone, and where any further surprises reflect badly on you, before you can call them a 'friend'? Despite the fact that people change throughout their lifetimes, and most people have not even reached such an intimate familiarity with themselves?

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It's not illogical to base your opinion on the information available to you; that's all we as humans can ever do. People aren't unique in that we can never have absolute certainty on the completeness of our understanding of them; this applies to the entire universe (including the reasoning by which we have named it such). By your argument, we should never have an opinion on anything.

We do need to take the varying degrees of ever-present uncertainty into account though; primarily this is achieved by remaining open to change your mind and not taking irreversible actions based on less-than-sound info. Stuff you 'hear' second-hand or worse about emotionally sensitive events that supposedly happened to other people are certainly a prime example of 'less-than-sound', but this thread works from the premise that we somehow know that person X did something terrible, so I don't think we need to take the unreliable nature of one potential type of source of this already hypothetical information into account when answering its question.

Don't confuse opinion and fact. Forming one without the other is pointless.

Amelia's OP referred to "someone who did not deserve to be treated that way" - which implies (her) judgment of what was deserved is somehow by definition more correct than the person who did this unnamed thing. What's the basis for that?

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Originally Posted by Velvet-Tongue

Makes me fear how long until I'm on the receiving end.

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Maybe not fear, but makes you think.Honor is my loyalty, on matter of people and friends. If you do any wrong doing to another so called friend. Its only matter of time before it will happen to you. You are very right about that Velvet Tongue. I have been on the receiving, what I fear is my reaction to. I believe honor and loyalty they are my personal codes. You do not break those with me or anyone..

Some situation are forgivable, being drunk some what. We have all done thing, we regret in drunken state. Being a good friend, telling the person afterward what he or she did. Give them some helpful advice, apologizing for your action. If they do not take that advice, work them out of your circle.

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Originally Posted by Mindgames

Don't confuse opinion and fact. Forming one without the other is pointless.

Amelia's OP referred to "someone who did not deserve to be treated that way" - which implies (her) judgment of what was deserved is somehow by definition more correct than the person who did this unnamed thing. What's the basis for that?

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What makes a fact is a matter of opinion, though.

Anyway, does it matter what the basis is? You don't need to be right to be convinced, and your conviction is what matters in determining your response. Presume that it is whatever would convince you, since that's the hypothetical aspect of the scenario.

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Originally Posted by Raza

What makes a fact is a matter of opinion, though.

Anyway, does it matter what the basis is? You don't need to be right to be convinced, and your conviction is what matters in determining your response. Presume that it is whatever would convince you, since that's the hypothetical aspect of the scenario.

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Deep...but true. What's "fact" today, can be "false" tomorrow. All I know is 1 + 1= 2....After you take math out, all other "facts" I believe have the possibilty of being proved wrong. It doesn't mean they ever will. Just that it's a possibilty.