Should churches lose their tax exempt status?

If the government gets to decide what constitutes a church for the purpose of granting it tax exempt status, how is that separation of church and state?

Due to anger over the despicable Prop 8, which invalidated a lot of people's marriages, many are calling for the revocation of the Mormon church's tax exempt status. This got me thinking about why we even have tax exempt orgs and why the govt gets to determine what is a real church and what is a cult or merely a passionate cause.

I think we should stop having tax-exempt organizations. The reason oil is more profitable than other businesses is partly because of the tax advantages granted to that industry. If the Mormon church has that much dough to put behind something like Prop 8, they can afford to pay taxes like everybody else. There are far too many companies whose executives make six figures, while their corporations do not pay taxes because they are defined as somehow charitable or religious.

I voted NO on Prop 8 and I would definitely vote YES on removing tax exempt status from all churches. Let them take charitable deductions when they feed the homeless and pay taxes when they show a profit, just like everybody else.

I'd say streamline it with general tax exempt status for non-profit organisations, if that's what they claim to be, yes. No reason to have a special ruleset for religion, certainly.

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Originally Posted by Raza

I'd say streamline it with general tax exempt status for non-profit organisations, if that's what they claim to be, yes. No reason to have a special ruleset for religion, certainly.

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Lots of so-called non-profits make a profit. Lots of them pay their executives six figure salaries. Why should they be tax exempt or get cheaper postage than a mom and pop business?

Obviously they shouldn't, but that strikes me as an inadequacy of the current criteria for non-profit status, not so much a cause for objection to it's existence as a whole - unless you can argue why those criteria are structurally undefinable, rather than just poorly defined right now.

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Originally Posted by Raza

Obviously they shouldn't, but that strikes me as an inadequacy of the current criteria for non-profit status, not so much a cause for objection to it's existence as a whole - unless you can argue why those criteria are structurally undefinable, rather than just poorly defined right now.

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Why should churches or big oil get tax advantages that a mom and pop grocery store or a soft drink bottling plant which employs thousands do not get? What is the societal advantage to making some rich people and some businesses pay taxes and not asking other rich people and some businesses to do the same?

that's what I was thinking. it doesn't seem right to me that are truly non-profit charity should have to fork over their cash to Uncle Sam. Now you get into murky territory when it comes to just what exactly makes that criteria and how it can be recognized between a publicly traded company, a guy doing community service out of his van, a spirited get-together or cult and a Religion.

This sort of opens up a whole can of worms because we are dealing with several different issues. One of them has to do with lobbying, which is whole big mess in itself. I have a feeling that is something that the Founders never took into consideration.

One thing that I really wonder about is do churches have to pay property taxes? As far as I know no (other) business gets away with that, and I can't think of any reason why they should either.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

that's what I was thinking. it doesn't seem right to me that are truly non-profit charity should have to fork over their cash to Uncle Sam. Now you get into murky territory when it comes to just what exactly makes that criteria and how it can be recognized between a publicly traded company, a guy doing community service out of his van, a spirited get-together or cult and a Religion.

This sort of opens up a whole can of worms because we are dealing with several different issues. One of them has to do with lobbying, which is whole big mess in itself. I have a feeling that is something that the Founders never took into consideration.

One thing that I really wonder about is do churches have to pay property taxes? As far as I know no (other) business gets away with that, and I can't think of any reason why they should either.

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Nope, at least according to a couple folks I know who checked the IRS site today, churches apparently do not have to pay property taxes.

Yes.

Absolutely tax churches.

Maybe there needs to be a different "tax bracket" for non-profits that turn a profit... that's a little more murky to me as I haven't spent alot of time investigating it, but tax churches without exception.

Now, if a church sets up a non-profit organization, let them fall under the exact same rules that all other non-profits must follow. I have no problem with that, if we're keeping non-profits otherwise.

At the very least make them pay property tax.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

Why should churches or big oil get tax advantages that a mom and pop grocery store or a soft drink bottling plant which employs thousands do not get? What is the societal advantage to making some rich people and some businesses pay taxes and not asking other rich people and some businesses to do the same?

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Well, many churches and big oil would not fall under a proper definition of a not-for-profit organisation. I also think that the tax benefits of big oil are a category distinct from non-profit deductible expenses/tax exempt status granted an extention of a non-profit nature? They're just a bone thrown to a specific industry, like the sugar tarrifs are to corn. Mostly I agree that these are undesirable, but exceptions exist in industries the stimulation of which exists a widespread need for, such as the production of alternative energy and fuels.

From my banker's point of view I always have found it hilarious that credit unions are tax-exempt and considered non-profit. Believe me...Those fuckers are rolling in it.

Religion as a whole is so far from non profit, its like from our moon to mars and saying that is a 24 hour trip, I witness how at certain times of the year how the church is “hurting” for funds so they always seem to ask for extra donations from it members with those same members hurting for money on the home front during; xmas, easter, first of month every month for what to line the pockets of a guest speaker of every month, all the while who pays the gas to get too and fro, or who help that homeless beggar outside in the cold at night, or for there non-profit lunch ins and bake offs you have to buy to eat? NON profit you got to be kidding me? You charge someone money for something that is making a profit, at least thats what they taught me in economics. I could be wrong here.
They need the non profit status revoked just for them paying for no on prop 8 bs wire transfers in millions from another state did you guys know that all the no on prop 8 commercials were shoot off site out of ca all the “actors” never even lived in ca, So non profit where's that money come from then? A 10% cut before taxes on all the mormens checks from there jobs how is that non profit? Or how about the federal funding they got for a bombing/ fire in a southern state church they had to rebuild it hmm; non profit really?

I definitely do think churches should be taxed like everyone else is. However, while they do receive money, it is not a set amount of money. (People could choose not to donate at all; I think that's what makes them "non-profit." ) There are certain congregations that make huge amounts of money, but there are also churches that can barely afford heating in the winter. If we put proper taxes on churches, the huge churches that are trying to promote the "old ways" as the "right ways" would barely suffer. It's the small, alternative religions that would fail. None the less, tax exemptions seem like a silly idea. Especially exemptions from property taxes.
On a side note, it seems like the media is demonizing Mormons a lot more than they need to. Saying that the actions of the people in charge of their money represent all of them is a lot like saying that the actions of George Bush represent all Americans. While it seems to me that Mormons are old-fashioned and probably gullible, they aren't hateful people. The majority of Mormons I know probably don't think they've ever met a gay person, never mind gotten to know one. A lot of people, Mormon and otherwise, also think that your sexuality is a choice, rather than a part of your identity. It's more a matter of miseducation than unreasonable hatred.

Fuck mormons.

:the_finge

that devil smiley gives the wrong impression.


I'm not smiling when I say fuck mormons.

yes it should be more like....
"fuck religion :hjtwofing "

In Colorado you don't want to live near a church because they don't pay property tax... People near them pay a higher tax to make up the difference...

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Originally Posted by Buster Friendly

Fuck mormons.

:the_finge

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Damn it you beat me me too it.

Everyone knows that the mafia is ran by the Vatican.

churches should be taxed..............a lot, a lot more than anything else.

The one who's left still being able to pay is the winner

What happened to the preacher who would live off food donated by the people, who would live in a small house given to them?
Now you have the preacher in a suit asking for more money.
Does anyone know how much the Vatican has?

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Originally Posted by Dusk

Does anyone know how much the Vatican has?

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A lot

Most people think that Swiss country doesn't have an army but it does have a one. Special forces trained to protect the pope. That should give you some clue.

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Originally Posted by Dusk

What happened to the preacher who would live off food donated by the people, who would live in a small house given to them?
Now you have the preacher in a suit asking for more money.
Does anyone know how much the Vatican has?

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The Vatican has a shit ton of money, most churches don't. I was raised catholic and the church I went to relied on donations and volunteers to maintain the church and house the priests and all that shit.

I don't think the government should be able to decide what is or isn't a church, it does violate the separation of church and state. I'm not really sure what the requirements for a non-profit are but it seems to make the most sense to me for churches to just fall under the same category as non-profit organizations.

If churches were as good as they think they are they would really be non profit, because they'd be able to get everything done with absolutely no money changing hands...........which in theory if you got a church with a powerful enough god is completely do-able