Do you feel sympathy for public suicides?

So someone from bodybuilding.com who has been threatening to kill himself for a while went and did it on webcam. The site is down now because of the whole debacle, so people are talking about it on other forums. Apparently, a bunch of the bodybuilding.com board posters were egging the guy on and telling him to do it already. Then they got to watch the guy take booze and pills, lie really still for a long time, and finally have the police bust his door down. Some people are saying the video is fake and some are not, but a bunch of keyboard warriors are talking about how they have no sympathy for the guy and he just wanted attention and that is why he killed himself.

If someone is so lacking in sufficient human contact and attention that he offs himself, does he somehow not deserve any sympathy or understanding for his pain? I remember a lot of people slagging Kurt Cobain when he died and calling him a coward and talking about how he had a kid etc. and ignoring how much pain he must have been in if he killed himself.

Does a suicide being a public figure or doing it in public diminish or increase any of what our response to him should be? Do you feel sympathy for public suicides?

this will require more coffee and a good lunch to ponder before responding...

initially i want to say screw-em... but perhaps i am feeling more liberal today and feel a little for the sad/downtrodden/outcasts... but that relates to a short story i am working on but have never really been able to start or finish....

Huh... I don't know what to say...

I had one opinion until my mom's boyfriend took his life... Then I changed it.
He was a public figure, famous actor and comedian. I hated the way people promoted it and what went on after he died.

Now when I think, this doesn't have nothing to do with the topic, trough my life I met many famous and important people. I was hanging out with the president's son at the time I lived in Bosnia and was at his place many times, I met many rock stars and media people of all kinds. I met some of the high ranked secret society people. My grandfather was king's guard, equivalent of homeland security in USA. They call me legend in my home town for my courage for spraying police cars and doing plenty of other crazy things at the time.... should I go to media with all contacts I have?

I feel bad for them, sure. I bet this will happen more and more often too.

Lots of lonely people. Sad situations.

There is a famous incident caught on film (and documented in Faces of Death etc). The guy was some sort of politician. He gives a speech proclaiming his innocence of charges that aren't quite clear ..... then shoots himself in the head. I just found it bizarre. It seemed a bit self-indulgent. Guy must have been in a lot of pain though. I suppose the message was "you" did this.

OEC

Was it the man who posted the images of his girlfriend by the car?

that's hot

That girl by that red car?

People are evil and cruel.

Fuck em.

If you need to show it to everybody...Well...I seem to have less pity for you. Those that do it all alone. Those that aren't looking for attention. Those that feel so much pain, suicide, without attention, is the way to go? I really feel bad for those people.

I've had episodes in my life were I was acutely depressed and often thought of suicide. At those times, the last thing I was looking for was sympathy. Sympathy and a $1.00 will get you a cup of cheap-ass coffee. In fact, I went out of my way to try to act like everything was peachy because I didn't want sympathy. I wanted to be cured and not feel such pain anymore. Couldn't give a shit about sympathy at those times.

Kurt Cobain didn't video his death. He did it alone. I feel that he totally was in extreme pain. I also think that he should have just quit the business since it seems like the music industry (and yes...Maybe Courtney) brought on that pain. Do I think it was right that he did it? No...I think he should have thought about his kid and retreated from music and go and get real help. I think that's why people are so down about his death. Because he decided to not just say fuck the industry (and his wife) and get the right help. Sure...He saw plenty of doctor's about his stomach pains, but I have this big time feeling that he didn't ever really see the "right" doctor's. One's that could see that what he was feeling was not only "in his mind", but those who had enough balls to tell him why he was having them and that he REALLY needed some mental help with his problems and that he needed to do ANYTHING NECESSARY to lessen his stress. And that doesn't include heroin.

Kurt was murdered.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Kurt was murdered.

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Sure and Elvis is alive and working in Tennessee as we speak at a gas station.

Whatever. All I'm saying is, there are people who won't say his name around certain people for fear of being offed themselves.

And who are these certain people? Why would they want him dead? Besides Courtney, who gets the plus if he's no longer "of this Earth"?

I wonder that too. Did he knew something? Maybe he knew on which gas station Elvis worked :D

I don't feel sympathy for anyone because they are dead. everyone dies, and dead people don't care what living people think about anything.

I feel sympathy for people that have crappy lives. and I feel bad and miss people that are dead, especially if they were killed in a way that was completely outside of their control.

I don't really think much of people that commit suicide. It's your life and your choice, do what you feel is right. but it seems that most of the time they have people that loved and cared about them that they hurt when they go, and if you have people that love and care about you, then your life could certainly be a lot worse. I think about the people that got out of the concentration camps and it seems to me that the human will to survive can be a very remarkable and powerful thing.

I have respect for people that sacrifice their lives to achieve a greater cause, mostly to save the lives of others. I suppose that in that case I do feel sympathy for people who died believing that it was for a greater cause, but that it was really worthless and they were being manipulated for someone's selfish or stupid gain. Most of the people that die in wars is what comes to mind for that last one.

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Originally Posted by One Eyed Cat

There is a famous incident caught on film (and documented in Faces of Death etc). The guy was some sort of politician. He gives a speech proclaiming his innocence of charges that aren't quite clear ..... then shoots himself in the head. I just found it bizarre. It seemed a bit self-indulgent. Guy must have been in a lot of pain though. I suppose the message was "you" did this.

OEC

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That's what that Filter song "Hey man, nice shot" is about. And the Bomb the Music Industry song "blow your brains out on live TV!" Although that one is more about how the original song is ironic, than about the actual incident. But that in itself is ironic as well.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

That's what that Filter song "Hey man, nice shot" is about. And the Bomb the Music Industry song "blow your brains out on live TV!" Although that one is more about how the original song is ironic, than about the actual incident. But that in itself is ironic as well.

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Budd Dwyer was his name. He was some sort of politician who got caught doing something or other, corruption/scandal etc. He called a press conference, and rather than deal with the fall out of his actions, he shot himself.

Why does everyone assume that a suicide has to be 'in alot of pain', I keep hearing this, and I'm not sure it's true 100% of the time Dwyer is one example I can think of who might not have been "in pain". Maybe he just didn't want to deal with the bullshit he knew he'd brought down on himself?

I'm sure some suicides are "in pain", emotional, or physical, or whatever. But there are plenty I'm sure who are completely rational about it, and are simply looking to go out on their own terms rather than take whatever shit they have coming their way.

I have several friends who have mentioned this, they're all still alive so far.

We are conditioned in our society to view death as "bad", not every society has the same weird hang ups we do.

I barely have any sympathy for the living.

Oh yeah, and as for that guy on bodybuilding.com... death by internet has been done before. Meh.

i cant understand suicide to begin with. its just a concept i have never been able to understand, and public suicides... just something i realy cant bend my head around.


i try not to judge however unless i have walked the mile in the other fellow's shoes

I watched "Northen Exposure" one time where the one character, who was of eskimo descent says his people didn't believe in suicide because "you shouldn't go where you're not invited". I always thought as basic of an idea as that was, it really was a cool mindset.

That's so cool. There's much greater wisdom in the sayings of the old cultures. Such as native Indians from states, Buddhist monks, Eskimos, Gypsies from Mediterranean. And when you think of it, if great depression hit us they would almost not even notice it. They'll just move higher in the rank of the "social class" because we'll all move down one rank. Damn that ranking is wrong. We should rank people by their skills, intelligence and creativity instead of what car they have or what clothe's they're wearing.

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Originally Posted by Buster Friendly

Budd Dwyer was his name. He was some sort of politician who got caught doing something or other, corruption/scandal etc. He called a press conference, and rather than deal with the fall out of his actions, he shot himself.

Why does everyone assume that a suicide has to be 'in alot of pain', I keep hearing this, and I'm not sure it's true 100% of the time Dwyer is one example I can think of who might not have been "in pain". Maybe he just didn't want to deal with the bullshit he knew he'd brought down on himself?

I'm sure some suicides are "in pain", emotional, or physical, or whatever. But there are plenty I'm sure who are completely rational about it, and are simply looking to go out on their own terms rather than take whatever shit they have coming their way.

I have several friends who have mentioned this, they're all still alive so far.

We are conditioned in our society to view death as "bad", not every society has the same weird hang ups we do.

I barely have any sympathy for the living.

Oh yeah, and as for that guy on bodybuilding.com... death by internet has been done before. Meh.

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Dwyer, yeah. I really would not be able to determine his actual mental state. I can only describe it as a bizarre incident. Generally speaking, I've heard that when one makes an actual decision to commit suicide ... whatever discomfort may lift. I really don't know though. Same incident though, yeah. Saw it Faces of Death (or some such documentary/shock film)

OEC

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Originally Posted by OliX

That's so cool. There's much greater wisdom in the sayings of the old cultures. Such as native Indians from states, Buddhist monks, Eskimos, Gypsies from Mediterranean. And when you think of it, if great depression hit us they would almost not even notice it. They'll just move higher in the rank of the "social class" because we'll all move down one rank. Damn that ranking is wrong. We should rank people by their skills, intelligence and creativity instead of what car they have or what clothe's they're wearing.

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ah yes. but then that would upset the old boys network., but i agree with you there

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Originally Posted by OliX

That's so cool. There's much greater wisdom in the sayings of the old cultures. Such as native Indians from states, Buddhist monks, Eskimos, Gypsies from Mediterranean. And when you think of it, if great depression hit us they would almost not even notice it. They'll just move higher in the rank of the "social class" because we'll all move down one rank. Damn that ranking is wrong. We should rank people by their skills, intelligence and creativity instead of what car they have or what clothe's they're wearing.

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Yeah, but the cool thing is I don't think those people even give a shit as to what "class" they're designated to. To them, that's not what life is about.

I see no reason to sympathise with any suicide. If someone wants to kill themselves, it's implicit that they wanted it that way. It's not for me to say they were wrong. 'Sympathising' with people making choices merely because I wouldn't make them the same way is rather overbearing.

That said, if you're gonna kill yourself on live webcam, he could have picked something more flashy than poisoning.

I do feel bad for people's families.

I've heard suicide described as "Emotional violence/terrorism against one's loved ones."

The guy killed himself because he wanted to.

He recorded it because he wanted to show all the twats egging him on that they were wrong about him being too scared to do it.

If they think he wants to be a corpse that has their attention, they're living in a very, very, extremely small world.

Most likely about the same size as their self-esteem.

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Originally Posted by One Eyed Cat

There is a famous incident caught on film (and documented in Faces of Death etc). The guy was some sort of politician

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bud_dwyer

I am an occasional poster on the bodybuilding.com message boards, and a friend of mine had apparently been talking to this guy the last time he was thinking about offing himself, trying to give him a more positive outlook. So, in some ways, this was something that people should have seen coming.

With this incident, I heard about it all after the fact. The kid went by the handle Candie Junkie, and it shouldn't be hard to find a cache of the threads in question if you're interested in that sort of thing.

The main problem with that site is that in recent times, the "Misc" section of the boards has attracted a lot of 4chan-style posters who aren't at all into lifting, and are just looking to mess with people and cause problems. Also, some of the bona fide lifters have a homophobic jock mindset, with each trying to be the most "alpha", tooling on anyone who comes off as weak in any way.

While there are definitely good posters, and a good number of decent people on there, I can't think of a less sympathetic environment for someone with suicidal thoughts to find help. I'm honestly a bit amazed that something like this hasn't happened before.

I love that it's the same forum with my thread about the fugly asian girl.

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Originally Posted by inox

[ Also, some of the bona fide lifters have a homophobic jock mindset, with each trying to be the most "alpha", tooling on anyone who comes off as weak in any way.

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that's actually technically "beta" male posturing, trying to establish rank through testing others. the "alphas" don't give a crap, and do what they want. Of course the metaphor starts to break down in human society (I think we're more like interdependent co-relating ecologies of insect hives myself... but whatever.)

I'm all for clowning on people, but when it becomes reflexively oppressively robotic...

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Originally Posted by Buster Friendly

that's actually technically "beta" male posturing, trying to establish rank through testing others.

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Agreed, but that's why I put it in quotes; it's what many of them consider as being alpha.

I've really scaled my posting back on there, because I just can't deal with all of the inanity.

My uncle commited suicide many many many years ago (like around 20?). My grandmother still cries. Its sad, and I wish I were old enough to be there for him when he needed it. I still dont know the whole story, but I know he felt it was necessary to end whatever he was feeling. I have sympathy for the families and the person who really does think death is a better way to go.

Public suicides...not so much sympathy. If any. But I do feel for their families, because those families feel guilt...and it shouldnt be that way.

Link to video of Budd Dwyer TV Suicide

He looked old for 47

http://www.americanpressinstitute.or...ages/dwyer.jpg

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Originally Posted by helcyon

Link to video of Budd Dwyer TV Suicide

He looked old for 47

http://www.americanpressinstitute.or...ages/dwyer.jpg

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Wouldn't it really suck if he really was innocent in the bribe charges?