It's certainly getting the attention of the media *caugh* and I'm sure people here have dome different views. I'd love to know where you stand and what your perspective is.
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It's certainly getting the attention of the media *caugh* and I'm sure people here have dome different views. I'd love to know where you stand and what your perspective is.
they should have been doing them when the president who actually let the country go down the crapper financially was in office.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
I think it's pretty disgusting and telling where the media's interest lie that when the world's largest gathering of people for a single cause in history happened to protest against the Iraq invasion and those billions of dollars thrown down the drain you didn't hear jack shit.
Also many of those people proclaiming peace were subjected to the usually tactics that are used against such people of being arrested and attacked by police. Now you have a bunch of nutters that are espousing armed insurrection against the government and it gets front page news with number figures that have never before been dared to be voiced on corporate TV about a political demonstration, most especially an anti-government one.
Maybe it really is that the press has gotten more free and are accurately reporting politics from the ground up, instead of from the paid horses mouth... but somehow I'm just too cynical to believe it.
I really hope that these are just the ravings of a lunatic fringe and not any kind of representative group of Americans that are casting a vote. The shit that I've heard from people that criticize Bush for being too liberal and think that Obama is the anti-Christ and that civilization stands on the brink of collapse if we don't abolish the first amendment and underline in bold the second one... If those people really succeed in getting into power then they will be enacting a self-fulfilling prophecy and this nation will never come back out of the dark ages.
I'm generally in favor of small government and low taxes, but I'm totally baffled by all the people I see who are just noticing that, even in a 15% tax bracket, U.S. taxes mean that they are working for two months out of the year for the government. Police and fireman are awesome and soldiers are pretty awesome within reason too, but how many extras would you give up to be able to spend a sixth of the year creating art or relaxing or learning a new skill or having sex and partying?
That said, I'd rather that, if we are going to spend, we buy things like better teachers and public monuments, as opposed to killing and ruining the lives of random people in far away places.
Lastly, whatever someone's political opinion is, anyone who filed this week was paying taxes on 2008 (well, except for estimated) and that 1040 is for the past administration. So, if they hate their current tax return, that is not the fault of any current policy. I mean, duh!
you really believe that this is about taxes? it's about the people who are pissed off because Obama is not letting the leaches continue to bleed this country dry- and their idiot followers who have agreed to offer up their necks to the vampires because they've been duped into believing that the other poor downtrodden masses are the ones who are against them. It's amazing, the people in the south have far more in common with the Mexicans than they do with wall street.
I agree that income tax is fucked up, but it's been around for over a hundred years and I don't remember seeing any demonstrations about it before.
Nor have I seen Obama raising taxes, other than for people who are receiving government money, and I mean billion dollar corporations, not welfare moms. All he has done is reverse the republicans tax cuts for the high end income bracket.
I'm sorry if you make more than a quarter million dollars a year and feel that the tax it is an injustice against you, but you still take home more than the majority of Americans, so I don't feel a lot of sympathy.
Don't worry rich folks, Obama is not going to socialize you down to the blue collar worker, or else he really would be in trouble by the rest of the people in the government.
meanwhile the rest of us have nothing to show for it but continued rise in unemployment.
this schmuck doesn't want 200k? give it to me and I'll give you 150 back and be happy. you know what? fuck it. give me 5.75 an hour and I'll be happy, because there are plenty of other people that would jump on it.
I can't pay my bills, but i'm lucky that I make enough to at least put food on my table. there are others who can't say the same. When the hell are we going to have a protest against that?
and we're complaining about taxes? DISTRACT DISTRACT DISTRACT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
I honestly don't know enough about tax code to know whether people who need a break will really be getting one or not. Apart from everything else, the new administration has promised to simplify and change the tax code, so nobody (except maybe psychics) knows what the tax forms are going to look like this time next year. So nobody has much idea who might or might not want sympathy this time next year.
I'm totally appalled that so many people can be incited to protest something which either hasn't happened yet or happened last year because of an entirely different group of people from who they are complaining about this year. Whether they are right-leaning or left-leaning, a protest now makes zero sense. What are they protesting? I don't think they know.
I was at the tea party here in Atlanta, after weeks of deal with my 1099. I was a little pissed about the whole issue of IRS, it does not a help me. I want better tax system, that what we have. I want a national sales tax a fair tax
the protest were more about 2 thing states right and government spending. how the government spending and not listening to people, both right and left out right spend of our money without care. We pay taxes that fund, nonsense earmarks that do not help but a few. How the federal government has over stepped themselves for many a year. State right have more trample, 12 years more so that normal. During those protest around the country in there own state legislation introduce 10th amendments resolution to sovereignty, if the government will not listen it people maybe it will listen to states.
The language of the 10th is clear and concise: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Thus, the federal government’s powers are limited to a specific set of activities – the rest is to be handled by the state government, or locally, by the people themselves.
10th amendment
Wisconsin
Illinois
West Virginia
North Carolina
North Dakota (passed house 52-40 on 04-07-09)
Ohio
Nevada
Oregon
Alabama (2nd Resolution, HJR403, introduced 03-24-09)
Mississippi (senate resolution introduced 03-10-09)
Pennsylvania (senate resolution introduced 03-19-09)
Idaho (Passed House 51-17, on 03-23-09, Passed Senate on 04-07-09)
New Mexico (tabled in committee)
South Dakota (passed house on 03-03-09 by a vote of 51-18, passed senate on 03-05-09 by a vote of 20-14)
Virginia
Kentucky (2nd resolution introduced on 02/24)
Alaska (2nd resolution introduced 03-19-09) (HJR27 Passed 37-0 on 04-06-09)
Indiana (2nd Senate Resolution Introduced 03-19-09) (SR0042 Passed Committe 8-0 on 04-01-09) (SR0042 Passed Senate 44-3 on 04-09-09)
Tennessee
Arkansas (failed in committee on 03-04-09 passed committee 04-01-09 failed House vote, 54-34)
Minnesota
South Carolina (passed house on 02-26-09, senate - referred to subcommittee)
Georgia (Senate Version - Passed 43-1 on 04/01/09)
Kansas
Texas (senate resolution introduced 03-02-09 - senate’s 2nd resolution introduced on 03-04-09)
New Hampshire (resolution killed in house on 03-04-09: 216-150)
Missouri
Iowa
Montana (Failed 51-49 on 02-24-09) (Resolution reintroduced as HR3) (HR3 Hearing Scheduled for 04-15-09)
Michigan (senate version introduced 03-03-09)
Arizona
Washington
Oklahoma (passed house on 02/18/09, senate version passed 25-17 on 03-04-09) (Joint version passed Senate, 29-18 on 04-15-09 - returns to House for vote)
How can you advocate a national sales tax and states rights at the same time?
Also, when one state really needs something, or thinks it needs something anyway, generally people from other states complain about the wasteful 'earmark' while advocating whatever it is that they need simply because the reasoning for their own needs is more evident to them. If New Orleans said it needed Federal money to keep it's levies in good shape, people from New York might not see the genuine special need there until too late.
I have a feeling alot of it is about Democrats vs. Republicans. From what I see from these protests, alot of the people demonstrating seem to be Republican, or at least the people that I see being interviewed are admitting that they are Republican.
Me, myself, I am an independent. My problem with the whole "spending" is I just want justification on how all this spending is actually going to help the economy. I do see alot of "pork" spending in the packages. It just reminds me too much about right after 9/11. We were duped into letting the government run wild and doing whatever they wanted to "stop" terrorism, yet alot of what they did was take away our freedoms for their own cause. Yes, I'm sure it helped fight terrorism, but it also helped Big Brother become alot bigger and NOT just to fight terrorism.
Now it seems like the same thing with the spending. They try to dupe us into believing that all this spending is in the name of "fixing the economy", yet, just like taking alot of our freedoms away in the name of fighting terrorism, they're blowing our cash in the same way, but not to JUST fix the economy, but also to line pockets of certain individuals.
I don't know if these protests are all for the right reasons, but at least this time around the government knows we all aren't as easily duped.
It's like my favorite line from "V For Vendetta". "People shouldn't be afraid of their government. Government should be afraid of their people". AND THAT...Is exactly what the Declaration of Independence is all about. The government must always be ready to answer the tough questions about what actions they are doing...And if not, it is not just a right, but the DUTY of the people to take the correct actions to get government to answer those tough questions.
It's complete and utter bullshit. These babies in their little "tea party" support groups whining about having to pay taxes are the same people who would be bitching the loudest if the public services and amenities they paid for were ever taken away.
wasn't the tea party over two hundred years ago?
They are absolutely retarded.
Corporation sponsorship / Fox sponsorship.
People standing around calling Obama a fascist, terrorist, islamofascist etc etc etc.
People dont seem to understand the whole tax thing I guess? You get more money Joe Fucktard. So does your ugly baby and your elephant of a wife. You'll be doing fine. The higher taxes go for the guy who owns you, your home, your car, and your entire life. Don't shed too many tears even though I'm sure waiting another year to buy the new lambo must be heart shatteringly difficult.
The people standing around and eating the shit being shoveled into their mouths by fox are saddening.
you nailed it right on the nose there in the first line,ajax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
the republican party has just been asshurt on the rag about obama ever since day one and has openly protested him on eveyrthing he has done since he's been in officeeven though what he has doen so far in offic is tried to rectify the craptheir party did for eight years in office.
they dont like being the minority in senate and having to work under a democratic leader to boot.
I wish i could say that things like this were not politically motivatd by party or that this country in general cared more about human rights and the values we should be caring about preserving
(life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. freedom of speech, expression etc.)
but no. unfortunately people still vote over things such as
"well, he was a vet and a pow "
"Im just tired of stuffy old white protestants in office."
"I dont wanna -insert racially insensitive name here- in office"
"that guys vice persident is hot."
and the old standby of 'voting party" all the way down as in voting either red or blue allt he way down no matter what the position wihout knowing the candidates views on things.
but again, yes, there's gonna be ton of protests coming out over this economic plan because the republicans in charge want this to blow up in obamas face so they can have a shot at 2012 to get back in power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
Basically, if the current administration had left everything exactly the same, they inherited a record deficit and, correct me if I'm mistaken as I know you understand such things better than I do, but wouldn't just the interest on a record deficit keep creating new record-breaking deficit levels with absolutely nothing changed?
I am usually all for small government and small spending. Pretty much give me fireman, policeman, military, and I'm semi-negotiable about safety regulation, education, and infrastructure, although I tend to feel education and infrastructure tend to be more local in nature and should be more local in price tag. Unfortunately, with the spending of recent years, that ship has already sailed.
In this instance, we are so well and truly hosed economically that I sort of feel like I want to wait out the year and see if things improve, before being for or against. I was against the bailout nonsense. Deeply against. But that was bipartisan and going to happen no matter who was in the White House.
Do I think taxes are hard for an independent business to figure out? Hell yeah. But nothing about anyone's 2008 1040 has anything to do with the Stimulus Package. So I am really weirded out that people are protesting the current administration over frustration with the tax bill from the last one.
Tea parties = Retarded.
Period. Especially considering these are the same people who where getting stirred up into proclaiming that anyone who protested a Bush policy should be thrown in prison as a terrorist/treasonist/should be hanged.
They are. That's why we have the FBI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
How familiar are you with American history? The Boston Tea Party was a response to England raising taxes on tea (amongst other things) to pay off it's debts from the French and Indian War.Quote:
AND THAT...Is exactly what the Declaration of Independence is all about. ...it is not just a right, but the DUTY of the people to take the correct actions to get government to answer those tough questions.
Pretty much the first action undertaken by the new American government was to raise taxes to pay off it's debts from the Revolution. This resulted in many common people being evicted from their homes (history repeats itself, eh?) and several armed revolts broke out, most notably the one led by Daniel Shays. These were suppressed and criticized by many of the Founding Fathers.
2nd President John Adams said it best, "anyone rebelling against a Republic, unlike a Monarchy, should be executed." and many were. Those words in the Constitution were to incite people against England. The American government never intended to endorse or allow people rebelling against it.
what percent taxes do you guys pay anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelia G
***Basically, if the current administration had left everything exactly the same, they inherited a record deficit and, correct me if I'm mistaken as I know you understand such things better than I do, but wouldn't just the interest on a record deficit keep creating new record-breaking deficit levels with absolutely nothing changed?***
Totally! I'm not saying the government shouldn't spend cash to fix the economy. Hell, anything at this point is better than nothing at all. I'm just saying that it just doesn't sound to me that this really is a "stimulus" package. There does seem to be alot of money being spent that had nothing to do with restoring the economy. Giving the Coast guard like $100 million to build a new ship in Alaska. $300 Million to invest in "green" golf carts". Billions being given to local and state governments to do pretty much whatever they see fit....Anyway they see fit (with some minor provisions like no money to be spent on golf greens, casinos and water parks). After the whole bank bailout debacle, I think the common man just wants some good answers how this new bill will "stimulate" the economy. I voted for Obama. I like Obama. I just think he needs to really "show" exactly how this is going to really help the economy. Brass tax...Give us some real figures monetarily how this all will help. I've heard him say over and over that possibly 3 million jobs can be created...O.K...How? How exactly?
what do you mean? building water parks seems like a great way to stimulate the economy. everyone loves those.
Ding ding ding. Couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by malcolm
I'd like to make the observation that most of these protests took place on public property and in parks.
Isn't that where most protests take form?Quote:
Originally Posted by cognitivedissonance
BTW...Yes, you're dead on with this and yeah, I knew about the Shay's Rebellion. I guess my point is just because our forefather's had other intentions when writing the "Declaration" and "The Bill", it still states this idea in these famous articles. Which means, underneath it all, it is our "right" to rally against govermental injustices. It doesn't mean that the government is going to be happy about it, but as Americans, I truly think it is our duty, to do the best we can not to let the government just totally walk all over our rights and for us to just stand idly by. The last administration was super guilty of this, yet, I don't see piles of protestors calling for criminal charges against these politicians. And that's too bad. But I do think having these "Tea party" protests is a step in the right direction. To me, it's a wake up call to the government that, yes, the American people are watching what they're doing and so the free ride of ruling without consequences may be over. Sure, that's a little naive, but at least the government is aware that we're watching. Just that alone actually is a very powerful thing. Like I said before, I like Obama. I voted for him. But, at the same time, just like every other administration, they're all just poiliticians and I have a hard time fully trusting any of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
Oh, have you ever read about "George Mason", btw? He really is the mac daddy of the Bill of Rights and I think he TRULY believed in a great America where the common man really did hold all the cards and that the goverment needs to be responsible for there actions. The Bills Of Rights basically is almost all his words, but he was so convicted to making it such a great bill that in the end, even though it's mostly his words, he never even signed his name to it. Mostly because, in the end, the government didn't put in every one of his ideas because they were afraid it gave the common American too many rights. They don't teach about this guy in high school at all and I think that's too bad since really the "Bill of Rights", one of the greatest American documents, were almost all his ideas.
Generally, yes, except for those protesting about paying taxes. You'd think those would take place in a Wal-Mart parking lot or in Disneyland or something. Some place not paid for exclusively by those dreary taxes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
Yeah, ha ha, I guess that's kind of ironically redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by cognitivedissonance
Yeah, if only there was some way we the people could find out what the plan is. I mean, how can buying things that need to be manufactured and building things create jobs?:p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones
Cool! Thanks for the link. This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!:thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cafe_Post_Mortem