alt models and failing at life

Why is it that so many alt models feel entitled to be on whatever sites they feel like? Just because you describe yourself as alternative doesn't mean you actually look the part. I'm so sick of girls whining and complaining when sites don't accept them and using the same tired phrase "being alt is about attitude not how you look". If you can't take the fact that being a model means you are judged based on how you look then don't be a fucking model. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. I've heard so many girls bitch about being rejected from sites that have specific requirements on having body mods because they apply even though they have few to no body mods. Of coarse you can be alternative without having body mods but if a site is specifically looking for modified girls it's their fucking choice. It's no different than any niche fetish site that only has pregnant girls or blonds or whatever. I've worked with a lot of models and alt models seem to be the only ones who don't understand this concept. Don't get me wrong, I've worked with a bunch of great alt models but I'm sick the 10% of girls out there that don't have a fucking clue about how shit works and feel the need to demonize a site just because they weren't accepted there. If being rejected from a site really upsets you that much then you probably have much bigger issues in your life than not being accepted.

Might be they got the wrong impression from certain sites that pretend to exemplify alternative erotica while actually frowning heavily on creative appearances.

That said though, I hear ya about self-proclaimed 'I'm crazy on the inside' altos. Everybody with half a consciousness could name a score of ways in which they're bonkers, it's the courage to openly express what you feel and let reactions be damned that characterises the individualist.

My views on this are mixed. I imagine that it is difficult to read the tea leaves that some sites put out there when it comes to their wants and needs, but then on the other hand I know that some people blind themselves to the obvious conclusions staring themselves in the mirror.

There are so many factors that go into when I'm shooting new people and I could certainly see folks wanting a bit more control and clarity, or at least a little more insight into the process and/or factors. However, I do find that these days it's a lot harder to work with new people precisely because their heads are full of this nonsense they heard form other models clucking themselves into a frenzy on certain model sites or buying into the manipulative doublespeak of certain sites masquerading as alternative.

If qualification was 100% based on looks, then I feel like it would just be over. There would be no point. Attitude and personality do count, but you can't just have an attitude, you have to have the right attitude. Then again, there are a lot of creative tasks that need to be done and far to many people just want the validation of being in front of the camera while everybody dotes on them, dresses them, does their hair, paints their face, turns them on, and then pays them a living wage on the way out, and at a certain point that can come across a little selfish and spoiled. I like people who do something, who add to their culture. I want to shoot sexy portraiture of important people, significant people, rare and special people.

That can't happen at the drop of a hat though. Sometimes the planets have to be in alignment, other creative projects have to be at a stable phase, and more and more often, the person I'm thinking of working with needs to appear to have their head on straight too.

Now, obviously some of these are just my views and I'm certain they don't represent other people's perspective on the subject, so take that for what it's worth.

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Originally Posted by allah

For god sake have some pity!! Being a model is so stupefyingly boring that they need to have their petty quarrels and bitchiness. Otherwise they’d go comatose...

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ITT the guy religiously prohibited from appearing in images relates modeling experiences.

Having no experience with models (beyond my lady doing classical art modeling) take this with a grain of salt.

Alt,Goth,Punk etc is a lifestyle but for the purposes of modeling its either a fashion deal or a fetish deal. You may go to every goth music concert, diddle latex clad girls in bathrooms and smoke cloves by the box but if you don't dress that way for your work/look the way a site wants then don't complain about not getting hired.

if a beautiful girl shows up here but wears nothing but white sun shorts and abercrombie shirts then shes not an "alt" model. She could very well be a normal fashion model but alt models need to look and dress alt if they want to work as alternative models. We don't know you personally, the guys fapping to your pictures or the girls squeeeee'ing over your cool shoes don't know you either. So dress the part, look the part and do what your boss wants you to do.

Like Raza said above another certain site which may go by the name of self inflicted death girls says they are alt models. But they'll take just about anyone if they have a nautical star tattooed on their arm or a wacky piercing on their eye brow. They're in the money cranking business. Small modeling sites I'm sure also want to crank out money but they have a smaller niche and want a certain aesthetic.

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Originally Posted by LeilaHazlett

Why is it that so many alt models feel entitled to be on whatever sites they feel like? Just because you describe yourself as alternative doesn't mean you actually look the part. I'm so sick of girls whining and complaining when sites don't accept them and using the same tired phrase "being alt is about attitude not how you look". If you can't take the fact that being a model means you are judged based on how you look then don't be a fucking model. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. I've heard so many girls bitch about being rejected from sites that have specific requirements on having body mods because they apply even though they have few to no body mods. Of coarse you can be alternative without having body mods but if a site is specifically looking for modified girls it's their fucking choice. It's no different than any niche fetish site that only has pregnant girls or blonds or whatever. I've worked with a lot of models and alt models seem to be the only ones who don't understand this concept. Don't get me wrong, I've worked with a bunch of great alt models but I'm sick the 10% of girls out there that don't have a fucking clue about how shit works and feel the need to demonize a site just because they weren't accepted there. If being rejected from a site really upsets you that much then you probably have much bigger issues in your life than not being accepted.

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It's hard, especially when you're new and don't understand how the business end of this works. I think a lot of it boils down to wanting to be part of this thing you love and wanting to be accepted by the people you admire so much that you don't want to see that you just aren't what they're looking for.

yeah, I guess I see your point...

but I like interesting people more than stupid, pretty ones. So I'd rather prefer a person that lived a real alternative lifestyle than some who was into "alt" fashion- which is not alternative at all in that it still has the exact same physical aesthetics of beauty as mainstream fashion, it just has superficial things like tattoos, which everyone in the mainstream has anyway too.

Like Hollywood It girl Megan Fox from Transformers has tattoos, black hair and "bisexual" tendencies, so according to "alt fashion" websites criteria that would make her "alternative". Yeah. right.

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Originally Posted by allah

What can I say? Some activities are so banal that one needs no actual experience to describe them. It might not be quite as astute as if an actual model said it herself but it’ll certainly be more concise. I like concise.

For evidence just look at this thread. Everything that was needed to be said was communicated in the thread title. The OP was just waffle…

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You never need experience to describe an activity, but you need either humor or a point to describe it usefully. :)

Naw, you've mostly got raw distaste and the self-indulgent impression that the satisfaction you feel in expressing it lies in the quality of the expression, rather than the unsurprising fact that you sympathise strongly with your own sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

yeah, I guess I see your point...

but I like interesting people more than stupid, pretty ones. So I'd rather prefer a person that lived a real alternative lifestyle than some who was into "alt" fashion- which is not alternative at all in that it still has the exact same physical aesthetics of beauty as mainstream fashion, it just has superficial things like tattoos, which everyone in the mainstream has anyway too.

Like Hollywood It girl Megan Fox from Transformers has tattoos, black hair and "bisexual" tendencies, so according to "alt fashion" websites criteria that would make her "alternative". Yeah. right.

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I'm a freckled, blue eyed blonde from south Georgia with no tattoos and only my navel pierced. According to my adjectives, I'm mainstream as hell. :)

I happen to live a real, alternative life, but that doesn't make me a good fit for the majority of the alt.porn sites out there.

It would be anything that's a standard of your life that moral majority would consider to be odd, different, wrong, or bad. It doesn't mean that it is any of these things from a single person's pov, but when you get a group of people together, they become idiots.

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Originally Posted by allah

Raw distaste. Yes, I rather like the sound of that… The rest of your post is rather superfluous though. Are you per chance a model?!

We often find it hard to find humour in our vested interests...

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Naw; I've been in some pretty good pictures, but I make fun of the models around here and how seriously they take their 'profession' all the time. What I'm saying is that your point sucked and carried no noticeable humor.

You shouldn't let your perception of everybody else's posting quality affect your own, dude. You'll be just as wrong as they are and look only marginally better for being it on your own.

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Originally Posted by allah

What are these "alternative lifestyles" that people talk about?? Alternative to what?! Every single human being on the planet is a total freak; nobody is unique in this respect!

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People are herd animals; most spend their adult lives doing little but act out habits picked up by imitating others. Alternative lifestyles are ways to structure action chosen against the monoculture suggestions of peer pressure, based on the idea that their results would be more desirable to you.

My non-monogamy would be a good example. I decided that monogamy was fucking stupid, and I wasn't gonna act on it anymore. Now certainly non-monogamous cultural streams already existed (although most come with almost equally silly rules), but even if I was aware of any at the time (not sure that I was) I certainly wasn't in any position to want to be like them. Alternative lifestyle.

They're just females, what more can you expect?

Now go make me a sammich.

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Originally Posted by Anna Evans

It's hard, especially when you're new and don't understand how the business end of this works. I think a lot of it boils down to wanting to be part of this thing you love and wanting to be accepted by the people you admire so much that you don't want to see that you just aren't what they're looking for.

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I can understand that, I was mostly complaing about the girls who feel the need to go out and talk shit about a site just because they weren't accepted on it. I've seen a lot of really childish attitudes lately and it's annoying.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

My views on this are mixed. I imagine that it is difficult to read the tea leaves that some sites put out there when it comes to their wants and needs, but then on the other hand I know that some people blind themselves to the obvious conclusions staring themselves in the mirror.

There are so many factors that go into when I'm shooting new people and I could certainly see folks wanting a bit more control and clarity, or at least a little more insight into the process and/or factors. However, I do find that these days it's a lot harder to work with new people precisely because their heads are full of this nonsense they heard form other models clucking themselves into a frenzy on certain model sites or buying into the manipulative doublespeak of certain sites masquerading as alternative.

If qualification was 100% based on looks, then I feel like it would just be over. There would be no point. Attitude and personality do count, but you can't just have an attitude, you have to have the right attitude. Then again, there are a lot of creative tasks that need to be done and far to many people just want the validation of being in front of the camera while everybody dotes on them, dresses them, does their hair, paints their face, turns them on, and then pays them a living wage on the way out, and at a certain point that can come across a little selfish and spoiled. I like people who do something, who add to their culture. I want to shoot sexy portraiture of important people, significant people, rare and special people.

That can't happen at the drop of a hat though. Sometimes the planets have to be in alignment, other creative projects have to be at a stable phase, and more and more often, the person I'm thinking of working with needs to appear to have their head on straight too.

Now, obviously some of these are just my views and I'm certain they don't represent other people's perspective on the subject, so take that for what it's worth.

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Well I don't mean to imply that modeling is 100% based on looks. Someone with a creative flair can make a much better model than a pretty girl with no personality. I just don't understand when girls get offended when a site does reject them based on looks. Appearance is a pretty big part of modeling and if you're going to get offended every time someone doesn't want to work with you because they don't like your look then modeling probably isn't the best idea.

I get offended when you don't make me a sammich.

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Originally Posted by allah

Accordingly Pedos and Zoophiliacs are all livin’ it up on the ‘alternative lifestyle’ bandwagon too! I guess next time someone tells me they have an alternative lifestyle I'll ask them if they sodomise horses and drink bull sperm.

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By all technicalities, yes. They would be an alternative lifestyle. But, only those who are attempting to be funny, but really only making themselves look silly would ask someone that........ all things considered, this might be a step up for you :P

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Originally Posted by allah

If i laugh, as far as i'm concerned, its humour. Even your enormous ego probably wouldn't claim to have the final word on what's funny. Admitedly, it was a cheapshot but i did lol, like once or something...

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That's what I said, though. It's amusing to you, but probably only because it exactly expresses your opinion in contrast to a popular one, which tends to lend any statement entertaining value. Now no one can blame you for entertaining yourself first and foremost, but if you're not even aiming for more than one-dimensional laugh-at-your-own-jokes type humor they will have a point when they call your posting shitty.

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Originally Posted by allah

Quality control!? Ok, I'll take your point but only just. Although it does seem rather pedantic when we're talking about posts of such brevity.

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In a general sense. You put a lot more effort into your posts when you're talking to me. And I can see why that's tempting, but it's still a waste even from your perspective in that it's endlessly more fun when people you disparage are forced to agree that there's something to what you say.

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Originally Posted by allah

Accordingly Pedos and Zoophiliacs are all livin’ it up on the ‘alternative lifestyle’ bandwagon too!

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Only us practising ones, though. No notoriety for closet cases. ;)

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Originally Posted by allah

Hmm, so i guess it’s kinda like telling someone that you have a disease instead of just coming straight out and saying that it's gonorrea; its technically true, but you’re really just wasting smart people’s time because they’re obviously going to ask you what disease you have anyway.

Reminds me of some other pretty much useless words like art and artist. Why can’t people try to be more categorical in their self-descriptions? Surely it'd be better to point out what exactly is so fucking special about yourself instead of leaving people guessing. But i guess that's usually the point.

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You mean telling someone that you live 'an alternative lifestyle', rather than which one specifically? Yeah, that's a pretty silly thing to do. It's still a fair statement that people living alternative lifestyles in a general sense have greater potential to be interesting though, which is kinda what got this started.

I'd also say that 'art' has unifying characteristics beyond the techniques or product categories involved, although I'm with you in that it's a much abused term.

Alternative? Ahhhh....It's all semantics. Just a way of someone trying to be an individual, yet, taking on a trait others express. Don't want to be a sheep? It's easy. Go stand out on a corner in your underwear speaking to a radio that has no batteries. Other than some like that? No matter how hard a person tries....Some part of the herd all the same.

Raza...Look up Caligula on Google. You're as much an individual as an Energizer battery is different from a Duracell. Doesn't matter if you "think" you decided this all on your own. A man-whore is a man-whore. A playa is a playa. A swinger is a swinger. Call it what you will.

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Originally Posted by Buster Friendly

I get offended when you don't make me a sammich.

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In all honesty, a lot of so-called altmodels (I shoot cool people not altmodels) would do well to learn how to make a man a quality sammich. If all someone bothers to be is nice-looking, there is a clock running on that, and looks don't last, but cookin' do. A chick who relies exclusively on her looks needs to learn to land a man, rather than whining that the alt site she appeared on a couple times many years ago is not going to support her for life.

Been missing this.

Who's gonna read all this, thoo -.-.-.-.-...

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Originally Posted by LeilaHazlett

Why is it that so many alt models feel entitled to be on whatever sites they feel like? Just because you describe yourself as alternative doesn't mean you actually look the part. I'm so sick of girls whining and complaining when sites don't accept them and using the same tired phrase "being alt is about attitude not how you look". If you can't take the fact that being a model means you are judged based on how you look then don't be a fucking model. I don't see why this is so hard to understand. I've heard so many girls bitch about being rejected from sites that have specific requirements on having body mods because they apply even though they have few to no body mods. Of coarse you can be alternative without having body mods but if a site is specifically looking for modified girls it's their fucking choice. It's no different than any niche fetish site that only has pregnant girls or blonds or whatever. I've worked with a lot of models and alt models seem to be the only ones who don't understand this concept. Don't get me wrong, I've worked with a bunch of great alt models but I'm sick the 10% of girls out there that don't have a fucking clue about how shit works and feel the need to demonize a site just because they weren't accepted there. If being rejected from a site really upsets you that much then you probably have much bigger issues in your life than not being accepted.

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I agree with you on some point.
But i feel like if you (model) gets rejected, then dont let it discourage you and complain about it.
They should try something different.
Ive never been rejected like "sorry we are looking for something else"
But there has been a couple of times when people just wont reply and i got the message.
But im not going to cry or bitch up a storm.



Bitchez be mad tarded sometimes.
tsk tsk.

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Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones

Alternative? Ahhhh....It's all semantics.

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Your mom is semantics.

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Originally Posted by ROGIZOID

Bitchez be mad tarded sometimes.
tsk tsk.

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Truer words were never spoken on this board beautiful.

On the matter of sammiches- It's not so much a girl's ability to cook, or land a man so much as it is having some other redeeming personality qualities that other humans can relate to. I know dozens, and dozens of beautiful women, some are awesome people, and their physical beauty is just kind of like a bonus. Others are so ridiculously hot that you'll practically mortage your soul for an hour of their time, but are such repulsive personalities that you can't wait to get away with a whole skin after you've known them for 15 min. longer....

And seriously what about folks who can do for themselves? What happened to people like that?

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Originally Posted by Buster Friendly

And seriously what about folks who can do for themselves? What happened to people like that?

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I still seek people who look good *and* have other qualities i.e. can do for themselves as you said, but it is definitely more difficult to find the really stellar humans since the advent of the "altmodel". I think I miss working with some people who really are cool now because I am gunshy from the ones who only want to be adored for their looks . . . yet have no personal style and do not exactly hit the Stairmaster very often.

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Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones

Alternative? Ahhhh....It's all semantics. Just a way of someone trying to be an individual, yet, taking on a trait others express. Don't want to be a sheep? It's easy. Go stand out on a corner in your underwear speaking to a radio that has no batteries. Other than some like that? No matter how hard a person tries....Some part of the herd all the same.

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I don't agree. Individualism, conformity/nonconformity, counterculture - these things are defined by how you make your choices, not whether their conclusions have never been reached or acted upon by anyone else in the world. Being unique isn't the objective of an openminded but critical attitude to the rest of the world - it is merely the likely product.

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Originally Posted by Ajax Knucklebones

Raza...Look up Caligula on Google. You're as much an individual as an Energizer battery is different from a Duracell. Doesn't matter if you "think" you decided this all on your own. A man-whore is a man-whore. A playa is a playa. A swinger is a swinger. Call it what you will.

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Have very little in common with what's known of the guy. There's far closer historical approximations.

None really come too close, though. Fact is that you, as somebody who only barely knows me and defines my identity by a few keyword-characteristics in contrast with what you're used to, will always find it easy to compare me to somebody else you have an equally shallow perception of that contains some of the same key elements - but that's about as likely to be accurate as equating two people on a dating site because they've got the same 'describe yourself in three words' line. You're distant from me and the concepts that describe my workings and lose out on detail accordingly; standing two miles away and observing that two specs on the horizon look a lot the same to you isn't really useful.

im surprised they took me here- im piercingless (well except in my ears and nipples) and have no tattoos (well i do have a mini heart branded on my leg)

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Originally Posted by Raza

I don't agree. Individualism, conformity/nonconformity, counterculture - these things are defined by how you make your choices, not whether their conclusions have never been reached or acted upon by anyone else in the world. Being unique isn't the objective of an openminded but critical attitude to the rest of the world - it is merely the likely product.

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Ding, ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!

The "altmodels" who want to be accepted to various sites for the same reasons someone would want to be accepted to the cheerleading squad . . . well, they kinda don't get it. And, if they are going to make it that sort of a contest, then they need to bring their A game and dress right, work out, and learn the right cheers.