It's All About Me: Is Narcissism A Disorder?

from npr

It seems you need only flip through a few channels of reality television to feel there's a lot of narcissism in our culture these days.

As the Jersey Shore's "Snooki" recently told Barbara Walters, "I think I'm fascinating."

But the extent to which Snooki and her cast mates can be diagnosed as clinically narcissistic is debatable.

The American Psychiatric Association recently announced it's considering lifting narcissistic personality disorder — along with four other personality disorders — from its highly influential Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

So what might the change mean for our "Culture of Me"?

A Little More About Me

For starters, in most cases there's a difference between a clinical narcissist and one you see on TV, psychologist Keith Campbell tells NPR's Audie Cornish.

"The thing that makes it clinical is when you go to the extreme where it's pervasive, where it affects all aspects of your life," says Campbell, who heads the psychology department at the University of Georgia and co-authored a book, The Narcissism Epidemic.

If you're a clinical narcissist, he says, there's real pathology associated with it.

"You can't help yourself but try to get attention or seek admiration," Campbell says. "It interferes with your life. ... [I]t distorts your decision-making. It destroys your relationships."

Under the current DSM, a person with those traits would be diagnosed with a "narcissistic personality disorder."

But the diagnosis may be dropped for the manual's 2013 edition, Campbell says, essentially because it's a manifestation of normal personality.

So, he says, the same patient would be told he or she has "a combination of traits that maybe lie on a continuum or a spectrum. You have high levels of traits that are associated with narcissism."

A New Normal?

But the way narcissism is treated — in the majority of cases, with therapy — wouldn't change much.

"There's no treatment for extreme narcissism that's somehow different than moderate narcissism," Campbell says.

And while things won't change much for those on the couch, he says, the way we talk about narcissism in culture might.

"When this happened I went and looked at Twitter just to see what people were saying about it," Campbell says. "The most common response was, 'It must be so normal now, it's no longer a disorder.'"

And the second-most?

"'Gee, I guess I'm OK, then'," Campbell says. "People see there's narcissism everywhere, and they're just shocked … that they're considering getting rid of it. It's such a perfect term for so much of what we see in society."

I hope not.

Yeah, I think it's the natural result of parents not teaching their kids empathy.

You have to understand that other people have feelings.
If you don't get that as a kid, then you end up being self-centered.
Where the only things you care about, are how things affect you.
What you want, what you need, what you experience, etc.

And honestly, that's how we are naturally.
Animals are self-centered.
Heck, they will eat some other animal,
and let it suffer and die for dinner, and not care at all.
To animals, all that matters is food, sex, etc.
I honestly don't think a lion ever thinks about how a gazelle "feels" when it's being eaten.
When it's screaming in pain, the lion just thinks it's an interesting noise.

Humans can have emotional maturity ranging from very advanced, to more like animals.

I just think a lot of us are more like animals, and less like mature human beings.

Narcissism isn't centered around empathy. People don't need to be taught empathy, although it can be beat out of them - when that happens you've got sociopathy.

Narcissism is about the lengths a person will go to to view themselves as awesome; the persistence they show in applying every psychological, social and physical trick at their disposal to allow themselves to believe this.

I'm pretty narcissistic. In my specific case, this seems beneficial: I had the brains to satiate my lust for being right without bending reality too much, which afforded me a pride in intellectual honesty - and a sufficiently talented narcissist can keep up anything out of pride. Autism renders me immune to shame and (lack of) validation, which are the big causes for internal conflict in narcissistic people. With the downfalls of unrealistic thinking and the need to live up to conflicting ideals more or less covered, narcissism is mostly just an endless supply of motivation for self-improvement and the ability to entertain myself for an half-hour with nothing but a mirror.

But it's a force, and not a purely benign one. I'm constantly catching myself on sneaky, subtle ways of bending my perception to put myself on top. Anarchistic beliefs help avoid a sense of entitlement to special treatment, but I recognize that same pull in my relentless demanding of what I see as my equal right. Much of my belief, lifestyle and identity is dedicated to channeling my narcissistic impulses into healthy and constructive directions, and all of that is strictly required to avoid various pitfalls. I can also never be quite sure that I'm not missing one or two, unable to see my own flaws despite careful study - most people that know me would claim that I am.

So is narcissism a disorder? I find that term mostly meaningless, but greater extremes of it are definitely a precarious personality trait. 'Course, the other end of that variable has it quite a bit worse.

A little narcissism is necessary for a healthy perspective. With out me in my life, knowing what I want out of it and what I feel I deserve, it wouldn't be my life now would it?

~K

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by keiko

A little narcissism is necessary for a healthy perspective. With out me in my life, knowing what I want out of it and what I feel I deserve, it wouldn't be my life now would it?

~K

---

Due respect, but it sounds like you are speaking of rational self-interest, not narcissism. The difference is pathology. The narcissist can't really see ANYTHING outside of the self and brings along a load of other descriptors - not the place to start quoting the DSM...

But yeah, it does seem "normal" for people on TV (especially "reality" shows), but that's probably why they are on TV. They believe they deserve to be there and that we are somehow dependent on them to make our lives complete.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheDeathKnight

I just think a lot of us are more like animals, and less like mature human beings.

---

Which side do you fall on :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BiggTruxx

Due respect, but it sounds like you are speaking of rational self-interest, not narcissism. The difference is pathology. The narcissist can't really see ANYTHING outside of the self and brings along a load of other descriptors - not the place to start quoting the DSM...

But yeah, it does seem "normal" for people on TV (especially "reality" shows), but that's probably why they are on TV. They believe they deserve to be there and that we are somehow dependent on them to make our lives complete.

---

This is mostly generalization and exaggeration. Narcissism is a continuous variable, and the the things keiko describes as well as many applications of rational self interest are dependent on having at least a measure of it.

well, what narcissuss had was a definate infliction so, I guess yeah it's a disorder

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raza

Narcissism is a continuous variable...

---

Good point...

thanks you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BiggTruxx

Which side do you fall on :P

---

A little of both. I care mostly about my own life, since I am the one living and
experiencing it. I'd hate to die and realize I spent all my time making other
people happy, and not focusing on enjoying my own life.

Ideally you do what makes you happy, but still be considerate
to the feelings of others.

Like if you want to sing in the middle of the night, that's what
makes you happy, but it might make your neighbors pissed off.
So to me, it's about compromise. Go out in the middle of nowhere
if you want to make a ton of noise.