Presidential Debate #2

Tonight is the 2nd Presidential Debate so some humor to start off the night.:

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Coming to a TV near you:

BUSH vs. KERRY

THE GRUDGE-MATCH RE-MATCH OF THE YEAR.

LIVE, TONIGHT AT THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE "TOWN HALL BATTLE PIT OF DESTRUCTION."

THEY WILL DO BATTLE IN A BATTLE WHERE THERE CAN BE NO WINNER.

WHO WILL WIN?

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or -------------------------------

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"Hi and welcome to "Whose Debate is it Anyway?

The show where everything's made up, and the points don't matter.

That's right. the points are like campaign finance reform rules to George Soros.

For those that haven't seen the show before, we'll play some games where I ask questions and these guys will make some stuff up, and at the end of the night we'll pick a fake winner while the rest get to do "something" with me."

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I want em to go at it Iron Chef style...that would be much more interesting. Town Hall debates suck...

Brings to mind one of the few sensible comments made on the last debacle. "Bush vs Gore" - now you've got my attention!...

you know....

there are alot of parallels between the Kerry/Bush fight and...


http://home.comcast.net/~zmanjz12/spock_fight.JPG

I say that since the election is so close, that we resort to Trial by Combat.

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Originally Posted by Dark Z

you know....
I say that since the election is so close, that we resort to Trial by Combat.

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Only if it's tag team with the VPs in it as well.

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

I want em to go at it Iron Chef style...that would be much more interesting. Town Hall debates suck...

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that would kick ass i wonder what the secret ingredient would be? the looser should perform sepuku in kitchen stadium for not having cuisine that reighned supreme :thumb:

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Originally Posted by KilLAtomiK

that would kick ass i wonder what the secret ingredient would be? the looser should perform sepuku in kitchen stadium for not having cuisine that reighned supreme :thumb:

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Chowder vs. Chili?

Roughie vs. Ribs?

Cranberries vs. Habaneros?

If the challenge is Iron chef, then I'm gonna say that Tex-Mex Style always beats New-England style.

Now while I want Bush to win... (because I like guns, and the things that he sucks at are easier to fix/undo, than the things that Kerry sucks at.)

I think trial by combat offers a more sporting chance for both than the cook off. Bush is mean and a fighter, but Kerry has reach on him, and Navy guys, got more combat training than Air Force guys, even back in the day. (of course, a pilot gets more training than your average AF guy... so we'd just have to see.)

Bah...it's a damned pissing contest only 30 min in...they are acting like bratty grade schoolers you went to school with and beat up after class.

Well, I think that Bush is holding his own, but then I'm biased.

The problem is that they're both only telling half the truth.

It's really up to the voter to decide which philosophy behind their half-truths is less worse.

Now that all is said and done...Bush really came out ahead of it all..impressive night for him.

how can you people even vote for bush?.?.?. bush did much better after he got mad mind you. but he so so repeditive when defending himself. half way threw the debate i could say what he was saying before he did. the top 10% of this country pay 90% of the income tax in this country. well they did before he changed that. bush said himself it was a 600 billion dollor tax break so the rich can not pay as much of a % as me and all the lower class of this country. I personally didn;t like my 250 dollor tax return the past 2 years. or the fact that my girlfriend has to work a full time job to pay her way threw school becosue financial aid is designed for parents who pay there child's collage. not for a 20 year old girl who's peace of shit parents kicked her out on the streets when she was 16 becsoue her boyfriend didn;t like her. Im sick of buying grocerys with fucking change while the ****** in front of me has the goverment pay for all her grocerys. then watch her go out to her fucking mercades and put the grocerys in her trunk. Bush has done nothing but betray me these past 4 years. Im not democrate nor do i think that kerry will change much of this. but we need a change. so im going to vote for kerry. its a whole lot safer then sniping out politicians.

well technically bush sucked. In Canada we have this cool lil kinda thing called Mock UN basically You study the country at the beggining of the year and are thier rersentitive. what it teaches you is oratory and statemanship skills..bush was short and rude he did not let the questioner finish his questions and was rude to him president or not he was ill manneered and I was not impressed.

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Originally Posted by CPRB

well technically bush sucked. In Canada we have this cool lil kinda thing called Mock UN

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The Simpsons had a great episode about that.

In grade school we had something similar to it but since my nations couldn't commit the war crimes it had done in real life in a fictional setting I think the lessons were useless.

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Originally Posted by CPRB

bush was short and rude he did not let the questioner finish his questions and was rude to him president or not he was ill manneered and I was not impressed.

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I was...and he got my vote dead on for it. I love how so many see a debate in such diffrent ways. Bush came out with a pulse and vibe I want in a leader and an honesty about the reality of how modern politics work...grand promises and popularity positioning may be the focus of other leaders but in this case...it'd much rather have a fella who can rile up a hornets nest than sit back and debate the strategies of confronting said hornets nest through a series of meetings and commities...I see enough of it at a state and local level along with lower level federal issues. He's the kind of polotician I like and the kind I tend to side with...he reminds me of a few key presidents in that they were reviled as they sat in office yet good or ill got the job done as it needed to be done...popularity be damned.

Plus he pissess off the people I want to see pissed off...so that's a good sign in my book.

I don't, actually it taught you two big skills statemanship and oratory skills...I thought bush was going to pop a blood vessel.

I can't tell you why you should vote for Bush.

Why am I voting for Bush?

1. He stopped a second great depression by releasing a tax cut/rebate at the perfect time to arrest it. When the Economic Bubble of the 90's burst, and consumer spending was threatening to send the stock Market into a huge downward spiral.

Releasing that rebate stopped the downward trend, and took up a chunk of the slack from the loss of industry. (Which basicly didn't exist.)


2. Constituency. When I have a problem who do I go to? the President or my US Representative?

My US Representative of course. (and I will continue to vote for whoever does what I want Domestically. Same for Senate.)

But the president is who we go to for International dealings.

Kerry is willing to hand more and more authority to the UN. Bush Isn't.

If we have a problem with what a US elected Official does, we can replace him/her. But once the UN has authority, over something, we have no recourse. There is no election for the UN. and understand that over 80% of UN member Nations are NOT FREE COUNTRIES. they are dictatorships of some form or another. Do you want Dictatorships deciding what YOU can do?

I have Degrees in Criminal Justice, History, and I am 1 year away from a Law Degree. and I tell you that a More powerful UN is the worst thing that can happen for Human Freedom.

I am Pro Choice.
I love Lesbians, and threesomes and I believe that it is possible for homosexual people to fall in love. (I'm not bi myself. I checked that out, and it just doesn't do anything for me)
I am Anti drugs (because I don't like things that take away your free will to make choices)
I am Pro Gun
I am Pro Hunting
I Eat Meat
I am Pro Death Penalty
I am Pro Stem Cell research


I want to do what I want to do. and while Kerry SEEMS to offer liberalism, it's a sham. every second that an Unelected body such as the UN gains power, WE the PEOPLE lose it.

Know what and who you're voting for. If you have a problem, contact your US Representative. heck, they solve problems, it doesn't matter hos personal or simple, their staffers will either help you or find someone else who can.

That's who you go to for Domestic Issues.


Bush knows that his job is to Protect the US and protect the Economy. that is the Primary job of the President.

Everything else is the responsibility of the rest of the Government.

the tax/credit rebate didn;t help me and im part of the country that makes less then 13,000 a year.
Those who think they are truly free are not truly free. Qwit listening to rush...

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Originally Posted by LrdSatanas

the tax/credit rebate didn;t help me and im part of the country that makes less then 13,000 a year.
Those who think they are truly free are not truly free. Qwit listening to rush...

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And those who say that are not fold quickly under the weight of their own creations.

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Originally Posted by LrdSatanas

the tax/credit rebate didn;t help me and im part of the country that makes less then 13,000 a year.
Those who think they are truly free are not truly free. Qwit listening to rush...

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It may not have helped you. and that's too bad. but guess what, I got Jack shit myself. (and I never listen to Rush) I make less than 2K and have about 70K in student loans.


But it was still a good decision.


The rebate came at a time (Summer) when consumer products were begining to back up in the retail end as people suddenly had less disposable income. As retailers would have needed less resupply, the production and transportation industries would have had to lay off workers (as they would be unneeded. Their loss of revenue would have resulted in further decreased consumer spending, and a snowballing effect until it bottomed out at whatever level it would have stopped (it would have naturally stopped at some point.)

However the tax money came at the perfect moment to induce consumer spending. and this was enough to soak up stock at retailers, and prevent increased layoffs. It slowed the economic Supply/demand shift so that Producers, transporters and retailers could prepare production rates more beneficial for the economic outlook.

You ask any economic professor if what I just said is true, and they'll have to admit that it's accurate. The weight of the move might be disputed by them (depending on partisanness unless you can find a truly honest professor), but in my opinion, the timliness was perfect, and saved millions of jobs that would have been lost had the tax cut not been released in August rather than waiting until winter.)

as for being free, you're as free as you want to be. The only true prison you have is your own mind.

I hate paying higher taxes, but now that i've seen this debate i am going to have to vote for Kerry and Edwards. I'm in that top % that benefits from a Republican in office, but Bush is a fake Republican.

A real Republican would make us all proud to wave the flag and would make our enemies tremble in fear when they thought of attacking this great nation. It was on Bush's watch that we had the horror of 9/11 and it was on Bush's watch that the economy got so bad. I am still in the top 1% for income, but I was making a lot more with Clinton in office.

Bush made terrorists feel like attacking us and let them get away with it.

Bush messed up our economy.

I think I would rather pay higher taxes on a higher income and there is going to be more opportunity after Kerry wins.

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Originally Posted by karyn

I hate paying higher taxes, but now that i've seen this debate i am going to have to vote for Kerry and Edwards. I'm in that top % that benefits from a Republican in office, but Bush is a fake Republican.

A real Republican would make us all proud to wave the flag and would make our enemies tremble in fear when they thought of attacking this great nation. It was on Bush's watch that we had the horror of 9/11 and it was on Bush's watch that the economy got so bad. I am still in the top 1% for income, but I was making a lot more with Clinton in office.

Bush made terrorists feel like attacking us and let them get away with it.

Bush messed up our economy.

I think I would rather pay higher taxes on a higher income and there is going to be more opportunity after Kerry wins.

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wow....

Ok, so when Terrorists tried to Blow up the World Trade Center in 1993, that was Bush?

When they tried to attack a New York Bridge in 1996 that was Bush?

When they attacked the USS Cole in 1999, that was Bush?

The terrorists hated us long before Bush and will hate us long avter he's gone.


And I explained above that Bush prevented the Economic downturn (which resulted from Poor SEC Enforcement under Clinton) from spiraling into a great depression.

wow. I mean no offence, but the factual basis you present for your decison is just incorect.

(and at this point, I think that everyone that has considered attacking the US has had to re think messing with us as long as Bush is in office.)

there will always be people who dislike the american way of life, but it was while Bush was in charge that we had the biggest terrorist disaster ever to occur on american soil.

and that cowardly little man let them get away with it. went to go invade the country which insulted his daddy (who also could not get reelected) instead of going after the terrorists. Bush just hoped no one would notice that he was doing nothing to combat terrorism besides making it more irritating for normal good citizens to fly.

bush was a coward when it was his turn to serve in a war before our time and he is a coward now.

i know what you say is true presidents in the past have done same. its not an original idea. so for you to give him full credit isn't exacally fair. Same with nation dept. Its is used to control inflation. I am glad to see that ur not the spoiled brat i thought and you actually are paying ur own way threw school congrats. I am 24 and im about to endure the same struggle. If the prez job is mainly economy and protecting the us then why is it his job with medicare. Ive tried for medicare myself all the aliens in line in front of me got it and when i walked up to the booth i was qwickly rushed away. from my stand point all officals in goverment don;t qwite rep my values (twisted as they may be). I don;t feel comfortible with a counrty with freedom of reiligon but then thats also not true becsoue everyone thinks "this country was found on christian morals so what christians say go". And im not gay but i think its not the problem of the president to gay bash ether. Let jim fuck bob up the ass for the rest of his life in holy wedlock. Its not like there doing it in his Livingroom. Im not the most educated person as you can planly see. I learn from what I see. And I try to think outside the box and not be like all the other zombies. Great debate tho dark z.

as far as the notion that bush prevented an economic downturn, were you making more than 2k a year before bush? most people are making less now. the economy is in the toilet because of bush. when you are out in the world supporting yourself instead of spending daddy's cash, you will probably have a more comprehensive understanding of finances.

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Originally Posted by karyn

there will always be people who dislike the american way of life, but it was while Bush was in charge that we had the biggest terrorist disaster ever to occur on american soil.

and that cowardly little man let them get away with it. went to go invade the country which insulted his daddy (who also could not get reelected) instead of going after the terrorists. Bush just hoped no one would notice that he was doing nothing to combat terrorism besides making it more irritating for normal good citizens to fly.

bush was a coward when it was his turn to serve in a war before our time and he is a coward now.

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We captured or Killed 75% of the Talliban /Alquaeda leadership that was around pre 9/11.

CIA, UN, Russia, Brittain, and every country we ever believe told Bush that Saddam had WMDs and that he was going to give Terrorists the tools to really mess us up.

Bush believed the CIA and UN and everyone else. Any president that knew something like that and DIDN'T act before the attack came would be a coward.

The fact that Everyone was wrong about posession sucks. But the fact is that I can't fault the decision that was made under the circumstances.

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Originally Posted by karyn

as far as the notion that bush prevented an economic downturn, were you making more than 2k a year before bush? most people are making less now. the economy is in the toilet because of bush. when you are out in the world supporting yourself instead of spending daddy's cash, you will probably have a more comprehensive understanding of finances.

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and By the way, I have never accepted a Dime from my Parents.after I finished Highschool. I want them to save their money for my little brother and sister.

I consider my self sufficency MY Responsiblity, for living MY life.and I don't blame the government for MY Problems. (like you seem to be doing)

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Originally Posted by Dark Z

We captured or Killed 75% of the Talliban /Alquaeda leadership that was around pre 9/11.

CIA, UN, Russia, Brittain, and every country we ever believe told Bush that Saddam had WMDs and that he was going to give Terrorists the tools to really mess us up.

Bush believed the CIA and UN and everyone else. Any president that knew something like that and DIDN'T act before the attack came would be a coward.

The fact that Everyone was wrong about posession sucks. But the fact is that I can't fault the decision that was made under the circumstances.



and By the way, I have never accepted a Dime from my Parents.after I finished Highschool. I want them to save their money for my little brother and sister.

I consider my self sufficency MY Responsiblity, for living MY life.and I don't blame the government for MY Problems. (like you seem to be doing)

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you don;t remeber when we presented our findings to the un when we asked permission to invade iraq??? Not everyone was saying he had nukes.

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Originally Posted by LrdSatanas

you don;t remeber when we presented our findings to the un when we asked permission to invade iraq??? Not everyone was saying he had nukes.

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I agree that there were some that were saying that he was complying with disarmament.

But at the Time even Hans Blix believed that if they were allowed to search everywhere, then they would find WMD Materials.

(This was like a few weeks after we found Rockets that Iraq was not allowed to have under the UN Sanctions.)

Every country that had a reputable intelligence agency seemed to agree that Iraq had WMDs, and the real question was whether we would allow Inspectios in to find them and destroy them , or if we would go in and take out Saddam.

and go ahead and google a search for Putin WMDs and Iraq and you should find stories about how Russian Intelligence warned us that Saddam was trying to supply terrorists with materials for real and dirty bombs

here's one

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...ussia.warning/

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Originally Posted by [url

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/06/18/russia.warning/[/url] I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.

He said the information was given to U.S. intelligence officers and that U.S. President George W. Bush expressed his gratitude to a top Russian intelligence official.

"This information was indeed passed on through our partner channels to our American colleagues and, moreover, President Bush had an opportunity and used this opportunity to personally thank the leader of one of the Russian special services for this information, which he considered to be very important," Putin said.

Putin made his comments in response to a question from reporters seeking clarification on similar statements leaked by an unnamed intelligence officer in a dispatch by the Interfax news agency.

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if all the reputable intelligence agencys agreed tthem how reputable are they now? All i remeber is the big black generial guy showing alot of blury photo's.

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Originally Posted by LrdSatanas

if all the reputable intelligence agencys agreed tthem how reputable are they now? All i remeber is the big black generial guy showing alot of blury photo's.

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Oh at this point I don't believe anything they (the Intelligence Agencies) say. They pissed away all their credibility.

But back when the argument was being made, I believed them, and had no reason to think that the CIA could fuck up so badly. (I mean seriously, Iraq, Iran and North Korea are our main enemies since 1992, you'd think that a decade would have been long enough to set up a solid and accurate intelligence gathering system.)

and I think that the president was right to believe them. After all there are Oversight comitties in congress. and spying is what these people do. I mean seriously, before 2003, the CIA was probably the most respected agency in the US Government

no, it's gonna take more than they ever offered before if they ever want someone to believe them in the future.

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Originally Posted by Dark Z

We captured or Killed 75% of the Talliban /Alquaeda leadership that was around pre 9/11.

CIA, UN, Russia, Brittain, and every country we ever believe told Bush that Saddam had WMDs and that he was going to give Terrorists the tools to really mess us up.

Bush believed the CIA and UN and everyone else. Any president that knew something like that and DIDN'T act before the attack came would be a coward.

The fact that Everyone was wrong about posession sucks. But the fact is that I can't fault the decision that was made under the circumstances.



and By the way, I have never accepted a Dime from my Parents.after I finished Highschool. I want them to save their money for my little brother and sister.

I consider my self sufficency MY Responsiblity, for living MY life.and I don't blame the government for MY Problems. (like you seem to be doing)

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Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden hated each other.

The Bush family did business with Osama bin Laden.

Bush's daddy was in charge of the CIA for how long? how can anyone believe that Junior just didn't have a good enough relationship with the CIA?

If you only made 2k last year, you have not made your self sufficiency your responsibility.

and iran has been our enemy since at least the carter administration when they invaded our embassy there and not since 1992. 70k might not buy you a top flight education but you should really try learning something.

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Originally Posted by karyn

Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden hated each other.

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yeah, and Hitler hated the Japanese. Stalin hated Mao. guess what? Both of those pairs hated us more and were able to work together to some extent.

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Originally Posted by karyn

The Bush family did business with Osama bin Laden.

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your point?

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Originally Posted by karyn

Bush's daddy was in charge of the CIA for how long? how can anyone believe that Junior just didn't have a good enough relationship with the CIA?

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Oh, I'm sure that as a result of that fact Bush W put alot of trust in the CIA. (Just another reason why his decision to believe the CIA was understandable.)

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Originally Posted by karyn

If you only made 2k last year, you have not made your self sufficiency your responsibility.

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I've taken the responsibility for education on myself Yes, I owe over 70K in Educational Loans, but after this year I Will have a Juris Doctorate and other degrees.

My career and my decisons are mine. and Who are you?
(I would not have asked that question except you seem interested in me.)


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Originally Posted by karyn

and iran has been our enemy since at least the carter administration when they invaded our embassy there and not since 1992. 70k might not buy you a top flight education but you should really try learning something.

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I was making the point that after 1992, the USSR wasn't our main issue, and our other enemies became our new priority.

???

are you in High School?

Nevermind, after that last post of yours I don't care. (even if I wanted to, you are not someone who can be reasoned with or involved in a true discussion of something.)

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Originally Posted by Dark Z

Nevermind, after that last post of yours I don't care. (even if I wanted to, you are not someone who can be reasoned with or involved in a true discussion of something.)

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well... perhaps that was hasty. you (Karyn) can't be reasoned with on POLICICAL issues. (I haven't really noticed you elsewhere)

So in re: Goth Porn, you might be completely reasonable. I think I'll restrict my comments to you to that topic only for now.

i have been a big big fan of blue blood since the very first issue came out. blue blood made me realize i didn't hate everything after all and there was a lot in the world that was beautiful and exciting and interesting.

i still hate stupid people.

you think you are a lawyer and you can't even debate politics? guess you will be going the history teacher route.

i am a professional fact checker and i also have a good stock portfolio and real estate investments. i make six figures many times over and have every year for many years. just not quite as much since that economic disaster bush got into office.

you cannot possibly live on 2k a year in baltimore or toronto so you are clearly misrepresenting who is paying your bills. you cannot support your views so they are probably your parents' views and not yours at all. only fair if they are paying your way.

if bush put his faith in the CIA because his daddy told him too, he is not fit to lead the free world.

hope that answers your questions

Well, now that the Discussion basicly got killed off :1zhelp: ....


what'd anyone else think about the second debate? :yellow:

Although it is organization policy that those who represent Blue Blood are not permitted to use Blue Blood venues to endorse political candidates, I would prefer for board members to be able to have an intelligent exchange of ideas on topics such as this.

Dark Z -- it is probably not a great idea to bring up personal stuff if you would prefer not to discuss it. That said . . .

karyn -- you are more than intelligent enough to make your point without lashing out with personal attacks. The idea is for everyone here to have fun. Please do not make the board less fun for others. I am tempted to make a karyn-only rule for political discussions where everyone can have them, except for Blue Blood personnel and karyn.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled intelligent and rational political discussion already in progress.

and that's why I can't stand talking politics.....

yay angelia didn't comment me i must of had a very poor yet clean debate :)