Is 9 years old too young...

to be convicted of a sex crime?

From FOXNews

Third-Grader Arrested for Sex Crime
Wednesday, November 10, 2004

TAMPA, Fla. — A 9-year-old boy was arrested after he lifted a female classmate's skirt and touched her, authorities said.

The boy, a third-grader at Booker Elementary School, was released to his parents after being booked Monday at the Sarasota County jail on charges of lewd and lascivious molestation.

School principal Gwendolyn Rigell said the boy had been suspended before because of a pattern of "repeated acts that are sexual in nature."

He was accused of touching the girl, who is also 9, as they rode home Friday on a school bus. This week, the boy admitted he had abused her, according to his arrest report.

According to the report, the boy grabbed the girl's hands and held them behind her back in the seat; he then lifted her skirt and touched her, the report says. He also pulled her shirt up around her neck, saying, "Look, she is not wearing a bra," according to the report.

Potential penalties, in the event the boy is found guilty, include outpatient therapy, probation and juvenile commitment, prosecutors said.


"Just because it's a felony, it doesn't mean he's going away," said Rod Haynes, an assistant state attorney. "The younger the child, the less inclined we are to try a commitment program."

What course of action do you think should be taken?
Should the parents be held accountable instead of the child?
Under Florida's 'three strikes law', should the felony carry over into the child's adult life?

After working with law enforcement in the area of bail bonds and bounty hunting, I have seen the worse of the worse of criminals... as well as being incarcerated myself as a juvenile and as an adult, I know firsthand that institutionalizing certain criminal types just doesn't work. In most cases it only serves to make them into 'better' criminals pooling information from other criminals. But also in certain cases therapy doesn't always work either... in this case I think that family therapy would be a venue to be examined as well as a strict probation term.

In most states the parents of a minor child are just as accountable as the child is for the crime and in this case I would expect that they will be held accountable as well... in the order of fines for victim restitution and possible therapy along with the child.

Being a former juvenile felon myself, I lucked out with a kind judge and a little used statute in expunging the felon once the terms of incarceration, probation and restitution were met and upon my 18th birthday. Knowing firsthand that this manner of law worked in not only my case but several others, in prevention of any further felonys as well as less legal trouble in the future, I would find this could work in this case as well.

I think the authorities need to get a social worker after that family. That is not normal or healthy for a nine-year-old to repeatedly do that sort of thing. The kid probably does need therapy, but, at that age, it sounds to me like someone should be investigating what horrors are going on in that little boy's home.

Whatever happened to getting the other kids to beat up the kid who likes to touch other kids?

Their was a kid in my grade school like that..we beat the mortal shit out of him one day and he stopped doing it.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I think the authorities need to get a social worker after that family. That is not normal or healthy for a nine-year-old to repeatedly do that sort of thing. The kid probably does need therapy, but, at that age, it sounds to me like someone should be investigating what horrors are going on in that little boy's home.

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It does fit the profile of molestation/abuse, which is another reason why I think they are not going for locking up the child at this point.

But there are some horror stories about CPS workers in Flordia (as everywhere)... not sure just how much it would really help :mad: given the extreme caseloads and passing over facts to close out cases quickly.

i'm suprised that there aren't more things like this happining, for example:

on the god for bid once a year mall trip i saw lil' fuckin' 9 -10 year-old girls with damn thongs pulled all out of there pants and trucker hats like some damn Girls Gone Wild shit .i have a whole theory this shit ties into.

the kids these days fucking disgust me.

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Originally Posted by killerkat

the kids these days fucking disgust me.

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These days? Kids were always that way...even us...only the fashion trends were diffrent. I think we too easily forget what we were like on our preteen days.

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

These days? Kids were always that way...even us...only the fashion trends were diffrent. I think we too easily forget what we were like on our preteen days.

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yes, we weren't inocent by any means, but we weren't super-charged sex whores , maybe it was just our little group but we keep to violence and drugs and shit ,not STD's and giving head to some 10 year-old chick who's already got some damn Double D's and is on fucking birth control .

sorry but i hate this damn subject it comes up here often for some reason.
(fuck atlanta,haha)

I think that 9 years of age is too young. It's not that he doesn't know what he is doing wrong, but he doesn't know how wrong it actuley is.

I would look to the parents. He had to be influinced by something to conduct those acts. If the parents are not the imediate blame, they are still at fault for letting him be exposed to whatever it was that made him think that kind of behavior was exceptable.

Looking at it from the perspective of the little girl's family, I would absolutely want something to happen to the boy besides therapy. Nine is old enough for a kid to know what is and is not acceptable behaviour (since he'd done it more than once, and I assume, did it even after being told not to). I think a fitting punishment would be to make the boy do a public-service commercial about "what children should do if someone's touching them where underwear goes".

I was molested around age two until I was 10. I used to get into trouble all the time for talking about sex in kindergarden. Our teacher was pregnant, so that didn't help matters much. Even though I got into trouble, I didn't realize what I was doing wrong until later. First grade, came along and I was caught stripping a boy down behind a tree and also got in trouble for playing games like "Hooker" on the playground. I kid you not. Someone is teaching that kid something he shouldn't know at this age. He doesn't realize what he is doing is wrong most likely. If he has a sister maybe the father is molesting her or making him molest her. He could be forced to watch or like I said, be forced to join in. I definately think authorities should look into parent counseling as well as doing a severe check with the family and what is going on.

I have to look at it from the perspective of the little girl's family. That definitely fits the classic profile of the boy being molested, but the family needs more closure than knowing the kid was going to "therapy". I'd lock the kid up for several years and give him therapy.


OEC

the prison system really doesn't work, it's not for the criminals, it's for the rest of us, we like to cover up the problem, and pretend that it went away. in most people's cases that go to prison and then "reform" it was simply because they fucked up once, and know it, and probibly wouldn't commit more crimes again, even if they hadn't been sent to prison. those that are inclined toward anti-social behaviour and especially violent acts who are sent to prison usually just develop more hostility toward society and are more inclined to lash out, which is why so many people who are sent to prsion, especially at a young age, will end up back there again.
I think that it should be probed into the cause of this incident instead of just writing it off, because relatively innocent behaviour for a nine year old could turn into very dangerous behaviour for an 18 year old if nothing is done about it. I wouldn't neccesarily assume that the child is being molested, I mean how many scenes of sex and violence do you think the kid has been exposed to on tv? at the age of nine it could be upwards of a thousand. someone has to deal with this kid in a productive way, and sadly it's not going to be the state, or probbily his parents either.

This little kid is severely fucked up. And you can thank the parents for that... Some people say, that parents are too often blamed for the behavior of their children... but where did they come from? Who reared them? Wasn't me. Environment is where this type of behavior starts, it doesn't take Carl Jung to figure that one out.

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Originally Posted by Mirren

This little kid is severely fucked up. And you can thank the parents for that... Some people say, that parents are too often blamed for the behavior of their children... but where did they come from? Who reared them? Wasn't me. Environment is where this type of behavior starts, it doesn't take Carl Jung to figure that one out.

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That's probably true. I think the justice system should be geared towards the rights of the victims, however. The parents should be investigated for possible abuse, but I would lock the kid up on behalf of the girl and her family.


OEC

I agree with the fact that kids these days are learning things that they shouldn't be learning at a VERY early age. I was tutoring a grade 6 class, and the main topics of discussion between children seem to be sex and swearing. I had one kid who would say "hey baby" and make leud gestures at me whenever I went in. Ok, we weren't perfect as kids...but lets look at things like movies, tv, and video games now compared to the 80's.
We watched movies like Back to the Future, Breakfast Club, Dirty Dancing....TV was funny or tried to teach a lesson, video games were Mario Brothers, Duck hunt and MegaMan.
Now, Kids are talking about movies that I KNOW I would never have been allowed to watch at that same age....movies with more sex, violence, drug abuse and swearing than ever. (I'm not trying to preach here, I love these movies, but parents are letting kids under 10 not only watch but memorize and idolize these movies).
Video Games are more involved and you are more active in the life of the characters. A 7 year old can play Grand Theft Auto and pick up hookers, deal drugs and shoot innocent people in the streets. The internet allows you to say "yeah, sure I'm 18" and get your hands on anything you can think of.

I guess all I'm saying is that we can punish the kids, but we should take a good long look at what they are exposed to and then figure out who is to blame. Yes, kids will be kids! They will fight, they will swear, they will play "show me yours if I show you mine"....BUT....who is teaching kids like this boy how to touch a girl like that? He is probably being abused at home...or seeing his dad treat his mom like this, or seeing too many sexual movies and tv shows. *shrugs* yeah, kids these days ARE worse, there are always bad kids, but nowadays, it's hard to find the good kids!

There was a great kid in my hometown once:

http://www.pollyklaas.org/images/top_logo.gif


OEC

The boy was probably molested himself, most children act out sexually if they have been sexually abused. Social services definitly needs to get involved. The offense should not carry over into adult hood, hopefully. Unless his continues to be a sexual offender, then the history will be brought up.
This whole thing needs further investigation. The parents need to be held accountable.

I had a 9 year old patient that ***** his 4 year old foster sister with a butter knife in the ass. He was abused by his real father at a young age, thats why he is in foster care. He did not get charged with anything. He just got put in another foster home, and locked in a psych facility for a bit.

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Originally Posted by kellie

The boy was probably molested himself, most children act out sexually if they have been sexually abused. Social services definitly needs to get involved. The offense should not carry over into adult hood, hopefully. Unless his continues to be a sexual offender, then the history will be brought up.
This whole thing needs further investigation. The parents need to be held accountable.

Both he and the parents should be held accountable.

I had a 9 year old patient that ***** his 4 year old foster sister with a butter knife in the ass. He was abused by his real father at a young age, thats why he is in foster care. He did not get charged with anything. He just got put in another foster home, and locked in a psych facility for a bit.

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Do you think he even processed why?




OEC

As far back as the 80's I can verify kids were just as bad, it just didn't make the news.

The kids at the school talked way more about sex because they heard others talking about it. Girls wore a lot of cloths you would not want to see your daughters in.Kids ran around using slang for sex the teachers didn't get. Guys used to say if you pulled the tabs off soda cans the right way and gave them to a girl they had to give you sexual favors. There was a fairly large amount of inapropriate touching. In the sixth grade a girl I knew was rapped by another 6th grader. Instead of making the news there was a big effort to hush it up that has forever colored my vew of rapists and what sort of kitchen utensils would or would not cross the cruel and unusual line.

These things are not new, it is not TV or video games making them happen. It is the same old crap that has happened for at least my whole life. Hopefully the exposure means we will look for contructive ways to deal with it, but usually it just leads to reacionary stupidity and a round of pats on the back.

Is 9 to young for incarceration? I don't know. The kid has shown a patter of abusing others that needs to be dealt with, or it will get worse. The repeat acts part worries me to no end and I don't think just therapy will be enough. Maybe if early on it was addressed I would have more faith in therapy, but no one really does anything until the problem is unavoidable. The kid may not have been abused, but this is definately a warning sign. The kid needs to be made to understand the gravity of what he did. I cannot judge fairly what should happen to him, but punishment should be part of the solution.