Protest This, That, and The Other Thing

Does anyone here take part in protests? Does they have an effect on you? Do any of you even pay em much mind?

I'm beginning to think they are a relic of a dead age really. They don't have the dramatic punch they once had and are often filled more with people wanting to cause problems instead of actually protest. News agencies pretty much wait like rabit dogs for a riot to break out and if one does not the protest is given no air time.

More importantly though...do they matter? Take all the European protests over the War...do they even matter? With few supporting it officially...fewer sending troops...what's it matter if they take to the streets when their voice has already dictated the action of their government? It's like people who make the same point over and over...you got it the first time...move on.

Second...whats it really matter if people from scandinavia protest the war? Do they think the American people for example care? Hell few could point em out on a map...but all cynical views aside it fails to take into account that these days....around the world...many have an attitude of not really caring what other people think. So if you don't hold care for what your own neighbor thinks...why would you care what an entire nation of people think half a world away? May sound a bit black hearted...but lets be realistic...when was the last time you changed a major part of your life cause a country you know little about felt you should?

Listening and respecting what they say is one thing...and should be done by all...but actually factoring it in and making a point to include them...no. That's what you have your fellow countrymen for...and in a world of national bounderies that factors in much more.

So really what makes more of an impact...protests from ones own people...or those from a world away?

I remember the collective shrug many gave when the news reposrts and articles said Europeans "hate" americans. How true it was...who knows...did I care either way? Not really...I don't vacation there and never got the feeling they liked the U.S. all that much. So it's like that family member who always thinks their better than you openly saying it to you...it just doesn't matter anymore. That's what protesting is starting to feel like...massive statements of the obvious by sides who've already stated their message again and again to the point you tune it out.

Like PETA people...they can show me all the gory footage they want...it no longer has an impact and truth is...it makes me kinda hungry cause when I see a Cow hanging from a meat hook I think what nice steaks it'll make....same with tortured chickens and fucked over pigs. The Protests have failed for the most part...though really how serious can you take an organization that has Alec Baldwin and Pamela Anderson as spokespeople?

[QUOTE=Tequila Zaire]Does anyone here take part in protests? Does they have an effect on you? Do any of you even pay em much mind?

I was involved in protests over the War on Serbia. Did I think it would change anything? No. It was simply an expression of support for the Serbs.

I'm beginning to think they are a relic of a dead age really. They don't have the dramatic punch they once had and are often filled more with people wanting to cause problems instead of actually protest. News agencies pretty much wait like rabit dogs for a riot to break out and if one does not the protest is given no air time.

It depends what is at stake. The ones that matter are those in which an entire regime is being forced down.


More importantly though...do they matter? Take all the European protests over the War...do they even matter? With few supporting it officially...fewer sending troops...what's it matter if they take to the streets when their voice has already dictated the action of their government? It's like people who make the same point over and over...you got it the first time...move on.

In those instances, perhaps not. If civil disobedience *never* influenced or overthrew governments, it would never happen.


Second...whats it really matter if people from scandinavia protest the war? Do they think the American people for example care? Hell few could point em out on a map...but all cynical views aside it fails to take into account that these days....around the world...many have an attitude of not really caring what other people think. So if you don't hold care for what your own neighbor thinks...why would you care what an entire nation of people think half a world away? May sound a bit black hearted...but lets be realistic...when was the last time you changed a major part of your life cause a country you know little about felt you should?

I don't care personally. I think that perhaps you are taking specific cases where protests are futile. There are instances where they are not.

Listening and respecting what they say is one thing...and should be done by all...but actually factoring it in and making a point to include them...no. That's what you have your fellow countrymen for...and in a world of national bounderies that factors in much more.

So really what makes more of an impact...protests from ones own people...or those from a world away?

It would have to come from one's own people. Outsiders can influence and finance movements, nothing more.


OEC

Some protests are tired and old; some are simply sneered at; some are claimed to be causing the exact opposite of what is needed. The simple protests are the best, such as dressing up as Batman and climbing up Buckingham Palace, or handcuffing yourself to the childrens' minister in the UK.

But mass protest ala CND in the sixties are a thing of the past, there aren't enough people prepared to get out and march any more.

Last weekend we had a protest march against a group of neo-nazis who have purchased a massive area of land and buildings near here. It is something which effects the whole area and many associations, including the political parties, called for support. In the town concerned there are roughly 6000 inhabitants, in the nearest city - also effected - there are 30,000 inhabitants. Only 1,000 turned up.

Fine it made a point, and all the press were there, but it hardly shows willingness on the part of those living there and effected by such events to take action. With such low turnouts the people being protested against are justified in turning round and dismissing then protesters as being unrepresentative of the area.

A friend of mine in NYC was involved in one of the protests against Bush around election time. He got arrested along wth a thousand others. He claims he didnt even do anything was just walking in the wrong place at the wrong time. I laughed at him mostly because I didn't think it would have mattered how much bitching took place, Bush was going to weasel his way into another 4 years.

Yeah, protests were once a good idea, now it's nothing new and not even really effective.

protesting-when you listen to fools
smart people know how to get what they want and have the patience to actually get there , we did some protesting experimants a while back while we were building this protesting machine which actualy worked but then we realized that most of the people out there are because someone has to tell them what they want to do so the machine was abandoned and the boyscouts burnt it

so protesting , why bother just do
that is if you really want

Protests in the US do very little at this point. The times they work are when a regime is being overthrown. Romania with Ceacescu, Serbia with Milosevic, Georgia with Shevardnadze. Protests in Berkeley are generally just funny. Excuse the double post.


OEC

I think protests would be more effective if protester had guns and started shooting the people trying to arrest them as irresponsible and violent as that sounds i think it would be alot more likely to get the message out, hey it works for terrorists

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Originally Posted by Kidthorazine

I think protests would be more effective if protester had guns and started shooting the people trying to arrest them as irresponsible and violent as that sounds i think it would be alot more likely to get the message out, hey it works for terrorists

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People had guns in all the instances I mentioned, so you may have a point.

KIEV (Reuters) - The liberal challenger in a closely fought presidential election in Ukraine raised the stakes on Friday, threatening to bring his supporters onto the streets if the authorities tried to deny him victory by cheating.

I'm hoping for one more for the road, tomorrow.


OEC

yeah, the basic idea behind a protest is the assumption that in a republic your elected officials actually care about what the people want. of course protesting doesn't work because that isn't true, and the government/ president just ignores them and does whatever they want to. look at the WTO conference in seatle, it was a success in some ways because they managed to actually cause a big enough difference to get thier point accross and shut down the the conference.... but look at how the government interpreted it instead of saying well, these guys are really against this, maybe we should consider if we're doing the right thing... no they said there's a big group of people that don't like what we're doing? guess we need more cops to arrest people then. a million people in the US don't want a war with iraq? lock them up and send in more troops.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

yeah, the basic idea behind a protest is the assumption that in a republic your elected officials actually care about what the people want. of course protesting doesn't work because that isn't true, and the government/ president just ignores them and does whatever they want to. look at the WTO conference in seatle, it was a success in some ways because they managed to actually cause a big enough difference to get thier point accross and shut down the the conference.... but look at how the government interpreted it instead of saying well, these guys are really against this, maybe we should consider if we're doing the right thing... no they said there's a big group of people that don't like what we're doing? guess we need more cops to arrest people then. a million people in the US don't want a war with iraq? lock them up and send in more troops.

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Sad but true. The US Government does not give a shit. I saw it firsthand. I doubt I would ever bother protesting on American soil except to give a modicum of support for people who were about to lose loved ones vis a vis NATO.


OEC

Theoretically, the best place to protest in a democratic society is the ballot box. Did that work in the US with the last election? I find it strange that so many people said what they were going to do, and then - especially in Florida, but is that really so strange - the voting record showed something else - where there was a voting record to follow (Florida again ...).

The politicians ignore protests, letters and other mails. They can swing states at the ballot box. What else is there available? Sadly it would appear to be civil disobedience and violence. This week in the UK exactly that has been promised. The government is using special powers to push through legislation that it doesn't fully agree with and which has been rejected by the Upper House and despite many protests. The protesters have now promised a reign of civil obedience as a response should a legal challenge to the method of pushing the legislation through not go their way.

What is the point of a democratic process - in any country - when the government has special powers to avoid a judgement that it doesn't like?

hmm maybe if high ranking officials start mysteriously dissapearing the government will start to give a shit, that why terrorism is becoming so widespread because the government wont listen to peaceful protest

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Originally Posted by Kidthorazine

hmm maybe if high ranking officials start mysteriously dissapearing the government will start to give a shit, that why terrorism is becoming so widespread because the government wont listen to peaceful protest

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That has always been the case. There are exceptions, obviously, but bullets have tended to trump ballots and protests.


OEC

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

US don't want a war with iraq? lock them up and send in more troops.

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At a recent car show the military showed off this new Homeland Security Truck based on technology from the public sector. It was designed for Anti-Terrorism and what not...the thing looked like something designed far more suited to tkae down large groups of people since it had a 50 cal. gun on top and strips on the side that shoot massive amounts of chemicals ranging from pepper spray to tear gas.

Seeing things like that riding around to "protect" us gives off a much more insecure and stormtrooper type feeling. It was rather unnerving. The agency already has a 1984 like name...does it need the image too?

that tells me the Government is scare the people just might get it right and the may be on the wrong end. As for protesting Tequila Siad some excellent points. I don't think Protest do work anymore because of the amount of police and security that are used. unless you are well trained and armed you will not get to far. Also There are people who have faith that these things will change tehw ay people look at the world. Part of me wishes that they would work, I wish our leaders would listen to us. But that will nto happen anytime soon not until they truly feel the heat on thier asses woul they even bother to notice. It's sad that we have no voice and no power....I think that's why the worlds so crummy and no one tries to do something different becasue we can't we get stopped before we start....sometimes wonder if project swordfish would work...I mean that's how the US was created, guerrilla warfare and terrorism....but to make an powerful change in this world you have touse powerfultactics and with all this PC shit and sissy as pandering hippy yuppy ass shallow toughguy dreams it will never happen....who would want to die for a cause anymore? it'w about the me and not the next generation...once people become less selfish and accepting of who they are nad where they fit into the world maybe then things and protest and armed rebellion may occure and changes may take place.

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Originally Posted by SindelChaos

A friend of mine in NYC was involved in one of the protests against Bush around election time. He got arrested along wth a thousand others. He claims he didnt even do anything was just walking in the wrong place at the wrong time. I laughed at him mostly because I didn't think it would have mattered how much bitching took place, Bush was going to weasel his way into another 4 years.

Yeah, protests were once a good idea, now it's nothing new and not even really effective.

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There was no doubt that George Bush would become president again. No doubt at all. :1orglaugh

As for the Original topic, I think it is about who you know, that matters in how effective your protest is.

is it me or has protesting or doing anything "anti-Bush " been the trendy thing to do? I for one blame MTV ive seen all their election specials and such and even tho they dont blatantly say Fuck bush you know thats what theyre implying. its like come on guys :1orglaugh:

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Originally Posted by KilLAtomiK

is it me or has protesting or doing anything "anti-Bush " been the trendy thing to do? I for one blame MTV ive seen all their election specials and such and even tho they dont blatantly say Fuck bush you know thats what theyre implying. its like come on guys :1orglaugh:

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When has it NOT been trendy to be anti-establishment?

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

When has it NOT been trendy to be anti-establishment?

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well its always been popular to rebel but lately it seems people are rebeling yet they dont know what theyre rebelling about nowadays its more like "hey those guys with the piercings are mad about some shit i guess theyre cool, maybe i should join them to be cool even tho i dont have the slightest clue as to what is going on but at least il be cool" i dont think the way this "war" was taken cared of was correct but lets be honest it had to be done and its not like if Kerry had won the election the troops would be coming home the next day or even within a few months so its all realy a lost cause to be out there bitching now thats its to late and this whole fucked up chain of events has taken place :confused:

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Originally Posted by KilLAtomiK

well its always been popular to rebel but lately it seems people are rebeling yet they dont know what theyre rebelling about nowadays its more like "hey those guys with the piercings are mad about some shit i guess theyre cool, maybe i should join them to be cool even tho i dont have the slightest clue as to what is going on but at least il be cool" i dont think the way this "war" was taken cared of was correct but lets be honest it had to be done and its not like if Kerry had won the election the troops would be coming home the next day or even within a few months so its all realy a lost cause to be out there bitching now thats its to late and this whole fucked up chain of events has taken place :confused:

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That is one very good point; the protests have to be done at the right time. Don't forget, though, many people thought that the assault on Iraq would wait until the weapons inspectors had finished their job and submitted a report and the UN had given approaval. Bush jumped both of these and caught a lot of people on the hop, including any organisations who might have been arraging protest actions against a possible war. He gained the upperhand with speed, whether he used legal methods or not that brought him the advantage. One day he'll be able to say that no one objected *before* the war started.