Are Strippers Insecure Whores?

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

strippers that get upset when people call them strippers, instead of (insert euphamism for stripping here). face it you're a whore, you sell your body for money. if you have illusions about what you do, it's insecurity on your part, not on everyone elses. just because you're a cock tease doesn't mean that you are practicing female empowerment... that's as much female liberation as eating cows because they are made out of meat is animal liberation.

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Now before we get into this lets leave out personal attacks on Morning Glory. The reason I quoted him was mainly due to the content of his post in the Sh!list thread. It's something I run into with people and have yet to really see why and how this mentality can still thrive.

Given many of you ladies here have been or are strippers I am curious how you have dealt with or deal with this mentality. Is it unfounded? Is is unfair? Is their some truth to it?

Speak your mind and lets keep it civil...I think we can all learn something here.

i can easily see that is the case with many,many,and uh, many strippers, but i think there ae also a great deal that really enjoy it......i don't like to spend alot a time are strip clubs too often......my short opinion.....

and i actually agree with what morning said for the most part....they may not be a whore in the since of intercoarse,but they are still selling there body for some kind of sexual pleasure.......

(and i already say sorry to any ex-strippers or current strippers here,i know there are many different parts to that lifestyle so don't think that it applys to all,by all means it doesen't..........)

ohh and uh i quess i sould elaborate more,im talking largely 'bout those tired ass-stuggling-ass stipclubs were people really are force to do it much like many whores........

hell, i've spent many nightly conversations over a few drinks at Burlesque night at The Masquerade(Atlanta one) ...SO PLEASE don't think i all like fuck them goddamn skanky whores,just because there strippers, just that many of the skuzzy strip "clubs"where i've noticed tend to be like this.....

i am ,all for a classy ,actual, maybe even trained dancer who happens to remove certain articles of clothing........



DAMN,it's really hard to express the point im trying to here, so im sorry if it sounds much worse then im tying to make it.......

I think it would really come down to the individual *stripper*. Some may just do it for money, others take a lot of pride in their performance. I'm not sure I'd see it as a form of "female empowerment", but I see nothing wrong with flaunting it .... and taking money from suckers who pay to watch.

OEC

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Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

I think it would really come down to the individual *stripper*. Some may just do it for money, others take a lot of pride in their performance. I'm not sure I'd see it as a form of "female empowerment", but I see nothing wrong with flaunting it .... and taking money from suckers who pay to watch.

OEC

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holy shit thats almost exactually what i was "atempting" to say ,and to think i typed all that^^^up there, fuck, sometimes my brain just shuts down,haha,damn drug days..........

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Originally Posted by killerkat

holy shit thats almost exactually what i was "atempting" to say ,and to think i typed all that^^^up there, fuck, sometimes my brain just shuts down,haha,damn drug days..........

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haha u do fine. A bit unorthodox but fine.:thumb:

OEC

I guess the worlds a fucked up place, it's just shitty that people can't learn to respect people for thier inner beauty and we can't get by or live on the earth without having to sacrifice some part of ourselves. when is it going to end? I've known so many girls that were beutiful, and they treated themselves like peices of shit, they thought they were worthless and that it was a luxury for them to take off thier clothes, just to get a compliment or feel special for a few minutes. and people go around and start to see each other as only what they can do for them, and women get beaten up and *****, and them are made to feel like they "had it coming" just for being a woman.
not everyone who dances falls into any of this mindset, some people just like to dance, but just the fact that this kind of shit goes on and on again and again shows that the media and society isn't doing anything to keep from perpetuating it, and this isjust another outlet for it.... so is that really worth it?

Couldn't this be said the same for models period? I mean bikinis, high fashion, and many other sections of the industry provoke people to purchase items by looking highly attractive in skimpy/provocative clothing. Let's face it sex or the idea of sex sells. Our society is messed up. Some people are lonely and ugly so in order to feel better about themselves, they go to a strip club, where all the beautiful women are nice and for $50 they will make them think they have been given the time of day. I have mixed feelings about stripping and such, but to me I don't think it makes a difference. We are all sexual creatures in one form or another.

Well, being a person who would turn to stripping if if I really needed the money, it is more an individual thing than an overall thing. Yeah, so many strippers come from a bent family and have personal problems, but you can find that anywhere (just more here because it's giving an emphasis). I'd strip out of desparation. If it turns out that it's my thing, it'll be because 1) I love to dance and 2) I have personals issues with wanting attention (see, the personal issues thing). A lot of strippers have gone their childhood being neglected (why does this sound so familiar to me? Hah) and now have a psychological need for some sort of attention, whether it be positive or negative. Others just need money for their drugs, children, or lifestyle. It's, unfortunately, a way to get some quick cash and be able to get on with life in a semi-modest standing. I know if I ever turned stripper I'd probably be alone for the rest of my life, but the constant flow of cash would appease me. I'm not gold digger, but damn I like to make my own money.

I guess you could argue that most activities are driven by insecurity?

comparing hookers and strippers is like comparing chocolate and cheese, they are both food but entirely different.

I might be going out on a limb here but woulnd't it be the same for porn actresses and such with the same amount of denial?

Ok, Im Kindof " on the fence " with this one....... Being a stripper myself. I guess I could agree with some of the comments about strippers being " whores" , but as for the " childhood neglect and whatnot....I cant agree completely.
I come from a very loving, very nurturing family. I have never craved for attention from either one of my parents, nor was I abused. I dont do drugs and I dont drink alchohol.
Alot of the girls that I work with DO have a significant amount of "problems" Be it drugs, sex addiction, attention craving..etc.. And for the most part, the girls that I work with would do pretty much anything for money. ( Not MY personal choice) But some will.
So I can definitely agree that it depends on the girl
As for the whole " strippers not wanting to be called strippers" thing... I never really understood that. I dont mind being called a stripper at all, because esentially... thats what I am.
Am I ashamed of it? NO
Am I " empowered by it? NO, Not really.
I think it all just comes down to the fact that its a " job " , It pays my bills, and thats all I am ever really concerned about when at the Club.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents........I believe whole heartedly that everyone is entitled to their opinion. BUT ** keep in mind that there are exceptions to every rule ( or stereotype in this situation)

well, i didnt see this thread until after i responded to the shitlist thread, but ill repost my response here... ive been a stripper for 5 years, and when i read the shitlist thread i felt really insulted by the comment....


well if strippers are whores for "selling their bodies for money" then the same must go for nude models, right? by your definitions and what you are trying to say, that must be true not just for strippers but for nude models as well... you cant say "well strippers are degrading themselves but models arent"... modeling/ photography is an art, and there are many women who actually make stripping an art as well... there are many who are actual PERFORMERS who actually DANCE and entertain, not just hump the floor and expect money... when i work, i dance (hell ive done ballet up on stage plenty of times)... i show off more of my body when i model because the club i work at we are required to cover up with gstrings and pasties, and as far as lapdances we have to stand at least 6 inches from the customers, and no contact is permitted at all... am i still a whore because this is what i choose to do? id rather "whore" myself out at a club and make money to support my family than whore myself out at mcdonalds for minimum wage because i didnt finish college (which wasnt due to stripping, but for personal health reasons).... im planning on going back, but until then, i am going to do what i can to keep a roof over my familys head and food in their mouths.... if you think im degrading myself, what do you think about the guys who hand over their paychecks just to look at someone they arent allowed to touch and just watch them dance around with their pussys, asses, and nipples covered? i dont get tipped because i am sexy or attractive or whatever, because i am a very curvy girl, but i know how to dance (ive been taking dance since i was 2), and i know how to entertain... i make money not just from that but my personality as well because i actually take the time to have conversations with customers (about real life issues and not just stupid "strip club talk")....
i have no hang ups about what i do, because i can go home, look at myself in the mirror every morning... i dont do extras, hell i hate giving private dances because i dont like being that close to the customers while i dance (ive been groped before, but that usually ends up with someone getting kicked in the nuts, me walking away even if the song isnt over...), i do what i do up onstage, i smile, entertain, joke around with the guys, and make my money...
yep, i guess that MUST make me a whore

As a "Stripper" I happen to know for a fact that the girls that are "whores" seem incredibly insecure and yet look down upon thos of us that don't turn tricks in the clubs and outright despise the pornstars. However, those that are, are few and far between, i've only met like three in all my travels that I knew for sure about. The rest were just dancers.
K

I like to watch strippers dance. Sometimes they are quite artistic. The dance is a bit surreal in a way.... If you can look at it as a bizarre art form, it is very cool. And some of them are really beatiful. But I like wild beautiful girls, they are fun to hang around with. Sometimes...

I have had many friends who were/are strippers. When I would go to work with them, we had fun in the dressing rooms. Talking, partying, whatever the case may be but I don't think people should all be placed in one category. It's a big world out there folks, every woman isn't the same . These establishments are there for a reason, someone is going to take the job, and it pays quite well. Many of the women had kids, and went home when work was over. It was simply a job. I am not denying that there were women who performed sexual favors for money, of course that goes on but the strip clubs I knew of, it was not allowed to be done on the premises. Some see it is an art, and are proud of their talents and enjoy being admired. I am not sure that constitutes having low self-esteem or not, that seems a bit generalized. I have yet to meet a person who didn't like attention. I think men who want to call women whores have a big problem. These are the men who have never had a decent relationship and always been shit on, I can generalize as well as the next guy, If I want to be close minded....

I'd like to retract a bit of my former statement after reading some of the personal tid bits of people who are actually in the lifestyle.

I've gained a bit of a new perspective on stripping after reading this. It seems like there is really not that much shame in doing what you love to do, even if it is dancing naked for another person. I don't ever mean to degrade someone for their passion, but my comment was biased to those few strippers I have gotten to know who have broken down lives.

I definately must admit I would find no shame in stripping. I have danced for my boyfriend before and it's a real trip to have eyes on me while I'm performing. However, I definately wouldn't want anyone touching me but the person I'm with, lol. It seems the clubs keep touching to a minimum, so that's good. Being on stage, on any type of stage, has always been a passion for me and I've always loved to dance. To strip seems like it would be an added flavor of fun that a girl like myself would enjoy. Fun costumes, fun dance routines, falvorful songs. Am I missing anything? :)

I've known several strippers and they definitely run the gamut of cliches. One really was a "working-my-way-through-college" girl who is very successful in photography and publishing; another was my friend's wife, who is absolutely gross and why anyone would pay her for any type of sexual act is beyond my comprehension. Of course, she is one of those who has sex for money.

In general, I like a good strip club where the women are really sexy and unique and the music is good. I don't go without my girlfriend and we never go to clubs where a friend might be working. She dances too, but just for me ;)

One note though - I find acts like the Suicide Girls waay more entertaining. They are great theatre, and no less of a turn on.

Maybe that is it... Strip clubs are some kind of participatory theatre, Rimbaud type thing.. hehe

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Originally Posted by delilahbrat

id rather "whore" myself out at a club and make money to support my family than whore myself out at mcdonalds for minimum wage because i didnt finish college

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that's exactly what I was saying, you're the only person that got it, but only in reverse. i'm not saying one is a whore and one's not, im saying they both are. It's about equating one thing with another thing, that I think is far less valuable. you're ( and by that I just mean anyone who applies, not you personally) giving the message that your body and your sexuality is worth X amount of dollars, just like someone at mcdonalds presents that one hour of thier time and labour is worth minimum wage... and by taking something that really is invaluable and shouldn't belong to anyone else but you and putting a price tag on it, that's why it's degrading, for anyone.

I stripped for a number of years. Strippers can be any type of person. Youve got your drugged out whores, your moms trying to support their family, your party girls having fun and making easy money. Your prostitutes, and your smart buisness women who are making wise choices for the future of their money. As long as you dont get caught up in the bullshit, and can handle the stress that comes along with it, youll be fine.
I personally hate it now. Hate the customers. Hate the attitude, and pretty much everything else about it.

actually to me, i am putting a price tag on my talents... believe me, i dont think my body is worth more than a minimum wage job... i do the job because i enjoy it and because i make money because of my talent and my personality, not so much my body... and even if i did it to show my body (which i mentioned before, i dont show off anything other than women who wear string bikinis at beaches.... so me, personally, is not really showing "invaluable" parts of me that shouldnt belong to anyone else...), thats my choice to do and noone has the right to tell me that is being a whore or degrading, especially if they have never done it themselves... i make more money than girls i work with who do it to be "sexy", because i dont take myself seriously up onstage... i make guys laugh more than i make them turned on... i wear costumes onstage and not just sexy stripper clothes, and i dance... rarely do i ever get down on the floor or do anything sexual up on stage (spreading my legs, etc...)....
i got back onstage 8 weeks after giving birth, after gaining 90 lbs during my pregnancy.... i did not have a body to show off, but i still ended up making good money because of the fact that i would rather entertain than try to be sexy....
i take pride in being an entertainer, and using my talents rather than my body and sexuality to make my money... im not saying all guys like that, there are many who dont like me because i dont like crawling around and doing what they say they think is sexy, and i could care less about not getting their money if they dont like me for how i do my job.... thats just how i am... i would much rather get $10s and $20s thrown at me because i can make a guy laugh and smile, than get a dollar for shaking my ass in front of their faces....

i know a few strippers, all of which are very confident and sexually confortable with themselves... as an insecure person i could never be stripper. if i was confident then yes (hell if i was secure with my body i wouldnt mind being in porno hehe) ... but ugg i can't imagine giving lap dances to old fat perverts... but hey whatever makes you happy right? the only time ive called a stripper a nasty slut is when my ex-bf was dating one ;) hehe

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Originally Posted by Mirren

It's a big world out there folks, every woman isn't the same .

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Very true.....its the same with any label; if you call someone a junkie or a nig*er you are putting a label on them which says very little. Its the same with the word whore.

Labels are silly.
Labels are dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

and by taking something that really is invaluable and shouldn't belong to anyone else but you and putting a price tag on it, that's why it's degrading, for anyone.

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i find a little bit of a contradiction, because you are posting in a community that revolves around sites that have women showing off their bodies/ sexuality in photos... you say that stripping is degrading, but you make no mention about nude modeling? you cant say that one is degrading and the other isnt... you cant put down strippers/ strip clubs, then continue to post in a community where women celebrate their sexuality to help create images for two talented photographers... its a complete contradiction, because in a way it is two similar scenarios, but why should one be less degrading than the other? you imply that stripping is degrading to everyone involved, not just the dancers... so being a part of this community, by your definition and how you defend your opinion, you are in fact "degrading" yourself by encouraging women to continue to pose nude in photographs by being a part of a community that centers around it.... just like men degrade themselves by encouraging women to continue to strip by giving them money?

what's your point? a ****** is a racial slur, which is a product of ignorance that there's a different in race, and so long as you're not michael jackson, you can't change the color of your skin. on the other hand, if you choose to shoot up heroin all day and do nothing but self-destruct your life, then you are susceptiable to being called a junkie, by your own fault and by adhearing to what the label means. it's not the fault of the word that you exemplify it. if you don't want to be labled then don't put yourself into the parameters of one. just a word of advice.

my point is that when you call someone a whore, a nig*er or a junkie you are doing them a considerable injustice because you are ignoring what they actually are.... a complex human being.

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Originally Posted by delilahbrat

i find a little bit of a contradiction, because you are posting in a community that revolves around sites that have women showing off their bodies/ sexuality in photos... you say that stripping is degrading, but you make no mention about nude modeling? you cant say that one is degrading and the other isnt... you cant put down strippers/ strip clubs, then continue to post in a community where women celebrate their sexuality to help create images for two talented photographers... its a complete contradiction, because in a way it is two similar scenarios, but why should one be less degrading than the other? you imply that stripping is degrading to everyone involved, not just the dancers... so being a part of this community, by your definition and how you defend your opinion, you are in fact "degrading" yourself by encouraging women to continue to pose nude in photographs by being a part of a community that centers around it.... just like men degrade themselves by encouraging women to continue to strip by giving them money?

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I'd disagree with you there, this community is about people comign together and discussing ideas. in fact the majority of the discussions are not about sexuality or photography or even led by forrest and amelia. now as to my level in particpation of it... well that opens the door to a whole new idea and that is where you draw the line between art and eh.. not so artistic sexuality. I do consider amelia to be an artist, but that is because art is what goes into the creation of a work, not the product itself. I never claimed to be opposed to dancing, but I think I made it clear as to why the product of it in this case can be a degradation.

now as to my comment about "an invaluable part of you that shouldn't belong to someone else" that surely means your talent and abilty, so do you feel that that is something special to you and that by working for someone else you are contracting it to them for their own purposes, and maybe not necesarily your own?

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Originally Posted by 23*

my point is that when you call someone a whore, a nig*er or a junkie you are doing them a considerable injustice because you are ignoring what they actually are.... a complex human being.

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you're right, that was a misjustice on my part. but it wasn't my intent to imply that.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

you're right, that was a misjustice on my part. but it wasn't my intent to imply that.

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i know :)

im not saying the community ISNT about people coming together and discussing ideas, but it is BASED on the sites/ communites of ameliag and forrest black and therefore affiliated with nude modeling, etc...

as far as my talent and ability being an invaluable part of me that shouldnt belong to someone else... i do not wish to keep my talents hidden, rather i would like to share it with others... just like actors/actresses/musicians/photographers/ etc show off their talents and abilities (and most put a price tag on that... so they must all be "whores" too!)... why should anyone keep their talents hidden? if it is something they are good at, they should be permitted to show off their talents without being put down/ insulted.... everyone has something he or she is good at, and most people build careers on those abilities, its something special to them and they "whore" themselves and their talents out to their higher-ups and contracting it to them for their own purposes....

seriously, your argument right there is basically comparing almost every single job out there to stripping because everyone who has a job uses "an invaluable part of them that shouldnt belong to someone else" (as you stated, talents, abilities/ etc).....

yeah.

so then we agree then that everyone, and not just strippers, that have careers to show off their talents and abilities are actually all whores in the long run then? so instead of just generalizing strippers as being "whores", we just about have to generalize the entire world population as such.....

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Originally Posted by delilahbrat

so then we agree then that everyone, and not just strippers, that have careers to show off their talents and abilities are actually all whores in the long run then?

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...and the crowd goes wild

in this time and age you have to pay the bills. If it wasn't for strippers who did nude modelling I wouldn't have been able to get my first your of my Fine Arts course done. The also taught me ina wierd way about sexuality and the way I view the world and the female body. It can create and it can destroy. I sometimes wonder why an intelligent woman would bare all when her brains could pay the bills much better....but the again thier is still sexism in the world and glass roofs for women. there are male whores too and the don't strip. They work in horrible factories and take physical and phycological abuse to get ends meet on the table. To those that do strip and keep above the other troubles I admire you adn if you succeede to save cahs and follow your dreams I find you sexy for following your heart and punching it out, not for taking it off....ok one more peek..pleaaaasseee...

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Originally Posted by delilahbrat

so then we agree then that everyone, and not just strippers, that have careers to show off their talents and abilities are actually all whores in the long run then? so instead of just generalizing strippers as being "whores", we just about have to generalize the entire world population as such.....

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What she said.

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Originally Posted by funkatron

What she said.

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talk about a pointless observation....

If we all bake bread then we are all Bakers too!

Yes we live in a capitalist society....get over it! :1orglaugh

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Originally Posted by 23*

talk about a pointless observation....

If we all bake bread then we are all Bakers too!

Yes we live in a capitalist society....get over it! :1orglaugh

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haha, i really am a baker,haha

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Originally Posted by 23*

talk about a pointless observation....

If we all bake bread then we are all Bakers too!

Yes we live in a capitalist society....get over it! :1orglaugh

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Actually, not at all. The point is, by Morning's logic, we're all "whores." Since he seems to feel negatively about this, either he feels negatively about everyone for the same reasons (including himself), or his logic is flawed. He appeared to agree with the logical extension of his argument, so it seems like the former is true.

And bite me.

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Originally Posted by funkatron

And bite me.

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yes sir! :)