Dreams really do come true

I'd like to offer my sincerest gratitude to all the great folks here at Blue Blood who have added to my enjoyment of 2 very pensive months. I am pleased to report that my montage of the Orange Revolution has now acquired media attention here in Pittsburgh. It will soon be hosted at my new domain orangerevolution.us. Today, we know victory! May all you do and all you are a part of see glory. It is thru your strength and convictions as individuals that all things may come to pass.

Glory to the folks of BlueBlood! Glory to the People of Ukraine!:thumb:

http://www.globalnetvillage.com/images/ukraine.JPG


Ukraine's supreme court rejected a final appeal over Viktor Yushchenko's election as president, clearing the way for the pro-Western reformer to assume power in the ex-Soviet nation after weeks of political turmoil, according to AFP.

"The court has concluded that the complaint should not be granted," read the eagerly-awaited ruling on an appeal filed by defeated candidate, former prime minister Viktor Yanukovich.

"The decision is final and cannot be appealed," chief presiding justice Anatoly Yarema said in reading the decision that sparked applause from one side and resigned indignation from the other. The ruling freed parliament to set a date for Yushchenko's inauguration, which top ally Petro Poroshenko said has been tentatively scheduled for noon on Sunday in Kiev.

AFP reports that the 50-year-old, who has vowed to make European integration the mainstay of his administration, will become the third president of an independent Ukraine, taking over after 10 years of authoritarian-leaning rule by outgoing leader Leonid Kuchma.

Yushchenko's swearing-in will cap months of political turmoil and uncertainty that have roiled this strategic ex-Soviet nation on European Union’s eastern border.

"Our suffering is finally over," said a beaming Yury Klyuchkovsky, a Yushchenko lawyer. "The last word has been said. We have a newly-elected president."

Yanukovich's team meanwhile blasted the court for favoritism.
"The supreme court is against Yanukovich," shot a grim Nestor Shuffrich. "Now it is clear that elections can be held by means of civil disobedience, that today in Ukraine, anything goes."

The court said that Yanukovich had not proven his charges that the December 26 rerun election that Yushchenko won by more than 2.2 million votes was marred by widespread irregularities and should therefore be annulled.

The same court ordered the repeat election nearly two months ago, after it threw out a November runoff won by Yanukovich because of systematic irregularities.

Yushchenko will be formally sworn in inside parliament, with an informal ceremony following on Kiev's central Independence Square, the epicenter of the mass popular protests known here as the "orange revolution" that swept him to power.

The demonstrations, organized by the opposition after a now-discredited vote was won by Yanukovich, touched off an unexpected tidal wave of popular support and echoed on the world stage as Moscow backed Yanukovich while Brussels and Washington lined up behind Yushchenko.

It also marked the second year in a row that a pro-Western leader headed popular protests that swept aside a Russia-friendly regime in an ex-Soviet nation, after a "rose revolution" in Georgia in late 2003.

The presidency of pro-Western Yushchenko, who has spoke in favor of Ukraine joining both NATO and the EU, marks a turning point for Slavic Ukraine that has been under Moscow's shadow for hundreds of years.

"From the first months, citizens will know what democracy feels like," Poroshenko declared after Thursday's ruling.

Yushchenko will face a wide array of problems once he assumes office, including rampant corruption and increased tensions with Russia, Ukraine's main trading partner.

He will also have to push through ambitious reforms before crucial parliamentary elections in March 2003, which will take place months after constitutional reforms transferring important presidential powers to the legislature take effect.
UNIAN

congrats and that picture of the cat is the perfect illustration for your story of triumph

sounds like a joke to me. there's no country in the world except for a few tribes in africa that practice democracy. I don't really see where voting for the dictator that will force legislation upon you whether you like it or not, is much better than having one declare himself as leader and doing the same thing, but whatever floats your boat. I guess illusion of choice gives you the freedom to think you did something, so that's still a freedom, which is better than reality to most people.

I didn't see the elections even being the point. Once the people rise up, it is more difficult to keep them in serdom. I do somehow see this an improvement as being killed by the millions for even daring to speak out. I am taken aback by your negativity in this thread, but I guess I should not be surprised.

OEC

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Originally Posted by karyn

congrats and that picture of the cat is the perfect illustration for your story of triumph

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Thanks. To me, it was simply about self-determination and a willingness to risk for even the possibility of a better tomorrow.

OEC

well I wasn't there, but it doesn't seem like they took much of a risk to me. if the opponent of the new president was such a ruthless blood thirsty dictator that would kill anyone who spoke against him, then it would seem to me that he'd use whoever it was that was under his power that did the killing, presuming he didn't do it himself, to kill everyone affiliated with the election instead of simply offering a complaint saying he didn't like the outcome.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.

plus I don't think that a country whose leader is backed by the U.S. just because he's anti-Russia is neccesarily a good thing. Look how well that turned out for Afghanistan.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

well I wasn't there, but it doesn't seem like they took much of a risk to me. if the opponent of the new president was such a ruthless blood thirsty dictator that would kill anyone who spoke against him, then it would seem to me that he'd use whoever it was that was under his power that did the killing, presuming he didn't do it himself, to kill everyone affiliated with the election instead of simply offering a complaint saying he didn't like the outcome.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.

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You're probably quite right. After all, people in Washington were pepper-sprayed by police whilst protesting the inauguration of the president, and that's just the sort of thing the world doesn't want to happen in a country moving towards democracy.

Way to be a buzzkill guys...

depends on what you want. if you like voting and your canidate won and that's good enough for you then by all means party like it's 1999. if you want a democracy and a society that's truly governed by the people and for the people, well than you're going to have to wait a bit, is all.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

plus I don't think that a country whose leader is backed by the U.S. just because he's anti-Russia is neccesarily a good thing. Look how well that turned out for Afghanistan.

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The First decree of the new President was to take all Ukrainian troops out of Iraq.

OEC

yeah, you know you're right. I guess i'm just too analitical sometimes and I neglect to factor in human emotion. If it makes you happy then more power to you, and I support it.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

well I wasn't there, but it doesn't seem like they took much of a risk to me. if the opponent of the new president was such a ruthless blood thirsty dictator that would kill anyone who spoke against him, then it would seem to me that he'd use whoever it was that was under his power that did the killing, presuming he didn't do it himself, to kill everyone affiliated with the election instead of simply offering a complaint saying he didn't like the outcome.

I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.

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No, you weren't there. The losing candidate requested that troops be use on the protesters.

OEC

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

Way to be a buzzkill guys...

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Yeah, it's amazing. The scourge of the idealist is a hatred of any incremental change.

OEC

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

yeah, you know you're right. I guess i'm just too analitical sometimes and I neglect to factor in human emotion. If it makes you happy then more power to you, and I support it.

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It's cool man. I don't take it personally, just been a long road even for what is clearly just a starting point. You have to factor in how horrific the history of the place is. It's hard to conceptualize.

OEC

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Originally Posted by Nightingale

You're probably quite right. After all, people in Washington were pepper-sprayed by police whilst protesting the inauguration of the president, and that's just the sort of thing the world doesn't want to happen in a country moving towards democracy.

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Bwahaha:1orglaugh

OEC

yeah, the idealist and the pragmatist are ever in conflict. beleive it or not, I do sincerely try to be the highest optimist, but sometimes it's really hard to get out of bed in the morning and not feel anything but nihilism, especially in the face of a world where speaking out can get you killed, and silence is just as deadly. But I guess the only counter to this are the small victories, in which case I see your point.

I just see it as a chance. I tend to wax poetical due to the aspirations I see in the people. It isn't that a new set of leaders will necessarily deliver the goods, it's the change in the hearts of the people. That was the true beauty in it. Ukrainian people were simply an object, cattle for several empires. This is the one time they found the power of "we." Someday, I think it will make them a free people. For now, there is much work to be done by all who love Ukraine ... including myself. The people who voted for the losing candidate are just as important and deserving of their own dignity and aspirations as the protesters. It's gonna be a long road, but I think we've found a starting point.:thumb:

OEC

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

but sometimes it's really hard to get out of bed in the morning and not feel anything but nihilism, especially in the face of a world where speaking out can get you killed, and silence is just as deadly. But I guess the only counter to this are the small victories, in which case I see your point.

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peace is always worthwhile, what's happened in the ukraine is beautiful, stop thinking for a minute about the future. Sure they will have a hard time ahead of them, but what they have done right now is worthy of applause. :luxhello:

if nothing matters then neither does your opinion. :thumb:

sex drugs and rock and roll, burn those flags, dance your hearts out and tear down those statues of Abe...

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Originally Posted by 23*

peace is always worthwhile, what's happened in the ukraine is beautiful, stop thinking for a minute about the future. Sure they will have a hard time ahead of them, but what they have done right now is worthy of applause.

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:thumb:

OEC

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

Way to be a buzzkill guys...

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haha nah. Nothing could be. I just got that My Soldier letter and bracelet btw. Will be writing back soon.

OEC

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Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

haha nah. Nothing could be. I just got that My Soldier letter and bracelet btw. Will be writing back soon.

OEC

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Git mine yesterday as well. Now I gotta dream up of what to say....have not written a letter in forever. I'm rusty to say the least.

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

Git mine yesterday as well. Now I gotta dream up of what to say....have not written a letter in forever. I'm rusty to say the least.

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Ditto. Edgon gave great advice here as one who actually experienced war. Ultimately, these are young men and women trying to keep themselves and their friends alive. This brutal fact will color anything I say. The best we can do is to support their courage towards their fellow soldiers. To act as a sounding board for their frustrations. To share a few laughs about the little things of home that they likely miss. It will be a difficult reality for both of us to relate to. I would seek mostly to let them know that we have not and will not forget them, regardless of the political aspects of the war.

OEC

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Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

Ditto. Edgon gave great advice here as one who actually experienced war. Ultimately, these are young men and women trying to keep themselves and their friends alive. This brutal fact will color anything I say. The best we can do is to support their courage towards their fellow soldiers. To act as a sounding board for their frustrations. To share a few laughs about the little things of home that they likely miss. It will be a difficult reality for both of us to relate to. I would seek mostly to let them know that we have not and will not forget them, regardless of the political aspects of the war.

OEC

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well true but they could refuse to serve.

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Originally Posted by 23*

well true but they could refuse to serve.

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Move straight to Jail, do not pass Go.

Refusing to serve is a complicated and dangerous process for the individual, especially when they are in the army, national guard or reservists. They've agreed withg a contract to complete a specific job and they'll be held to that contract. This isn't civil law, it's military law, and military law is a whole new ballgame.

true, theoretically they are outside the judicial court system to they could execute you legally for anything. :maxgne:

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

true, theoretically they are outside the judicial court system to they could execute you legally for anything. :maxgne:

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Practically anything; military law still allows the death penalty in States where it is normally outlawed and in the UK / British Isles, but not necessarily for anything ...

yeah, Military Law makes refusal to serve an absurdity. You sign up knowing what the job entails. I'm definitely happy Ukraine is pulling out. I do not think it was their war to begin with.

OEC

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Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

yeah, Military Law makes refusal to serve an absurdity. You sign up knowing what the job entails. I'm definitely happy Ukraine is pulling out. I do not think it was their war to begin with.

OEC

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Personally I don't think it was anyone's war to start with, and the Ukraine is making a move others would be wise to follow.

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Originally Posted by Nightingale

Personally I don't think it was anyone's war to start with, and the Ukraine is making a move others would be wise to follow.

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I don't see that happening any time soon.

OEC

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Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

I don't see that happening any time soon.

OEC

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Nor do I. I've just been reading through the parliamentary reports on personnel in the British House of Commons for Thursday, and there seems to be quite a bit of confusion about what will happen in Iraq on 15 March when two other countries pull their troops out. I can see more troops being sent in or, worse still, the troops sent by the US and UK to enforce the election being ordered to remain ...

well sure refusal to serve is difficult and it has its implications but damn well thats life.

I was thinking of joining the british army way back when I really didn't know what to do.
I can tell you damn right that if they sent me out there to fight and kill for bush I would straight up refuse.

Simple as that, death penalty or not. I'm not going to to take human lifes so that fat pigs can get fatter. Fuck them. :angry-smi

I mean if your going to be a soldier and go killing people (armed or otherwise) you better have a damn good reason for doing it. I sympathise with the troops i really do they have it hard, sure they're not all scum sucking racist swine ( I've seen a lot of fascist pig soldiers on tv.) & they're just doing their jobs but fuck it, if they don't have the balls to get up and go then I say fuck them.

Life presents choices to people, sorry, thats just the way it goes.

Let me try and get this right, 23*.

1. You wouldn't join the army and go off to fight for someone else.
2. If people don't have the balls to get up and go, then fuck them.

Now, where does that place you - without balls? :p:

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Originally Posted by Nightingale

Let me try and get this right, 23*.

1. You wouldn't join the army and go off to fight for someone else.
2. If people don't have the balls to get up and go, then fuck them.

Now, where does that place you - without balls? :p:

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not really

I can't get up and go from some place that i'm not in, but nice try.


cowardice comes in many shapes.

The first message I got from Ukraine after the invalid second round of the election translates roughly to: "Dust off your combat boots, we're going in" In retrospect, peaceful expression did work in this instance. Sometimes, you do have to fight tho.:thumb:

OEC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

The first message I got from Ukraine after the invalid second round of the election translates roughly to: "Dust off your combat boots, we're going in" In retrospect, peaceful expression did work in this instance. Sometimes, you do have to fight tho.:thumb:

OEC

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Well, let's be honest, this is what most people outside the Ukraine were expecting to happen; the attacks against the protestors ordered by the reigning party to break up opposition and a solid return to the Russian fold.

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Originally Posted by Nightingale

Well, let's be honest, this is what most people outside the Ukraine were expecting to happen; the attacks against the protestors ordered by the reigning party to break up opposition and a solid return to the Russian fold.

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It would have happened had there not been defections within the Security Services to the opposition. Of course we were expecting it, thankfully there was no bloodshed.:thumb:

OEC