god is dead

I'm an athiest and I see a lot of threads here talking about god or the devil. I also have seen a lot of talk in the media about religion in general (bush and his right wing nut job agenda).

I feel it is my responsibilty to let you all know that there is no god.
(also if there is no god there is no devil either) There is no one that can prove that there is a god, thats like trying to prove that the invisable man exists. You cant tell me "well the bible says....." because it's just a book, a well writen and edited book.
I come frome a religious family. I have read the bible and the satanic bible. I do know about religious history as well. More crimes, war, and hatred have been commited in the name of god than anything else in human history.

I feel as if this country is stepping backwards into the dark ages with all this B.S. about morals and god. I believe fully in the seperation of church and state. And why is it the governments responsibility to tell me what my morals should be in the first place? I like seeing that there still are some people fighting to keep the government in check by voicing their opinions and sueing the government to keep the ten commandments off government property, etc. But still there is a large majority of mainly "christains" who spew their hatred and at the same time try to impose morals on us all.

I think it would be a better world if people would wake up to the fact that there is no god and start to think more for themselves not what the bible, the church, or the pope tell them to think.

I want to see how many of you feel the way I do or how many of you don't.

maybe you are wrong.


just live and let live, thats what i say.

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Originally Posted by 23*

maybe you are wrong.


just live and let live, thats what i say.

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ok but how would I be wrong? do you have any facts?

The way I look at it is this:

There is one truth that we can all see.

Our lives.

We live. We talk to people, we do things, etc.
We actually see and experience our own life.

We only know about this timeframe.
We only *claim* to know what happens afterwards.
No one has seen it. At least I have not.
As an athiest, I can not claim to know what happens.
Maybe I am wrong, and there *is* an afterlife.
All I know, is that no one really knows, until they die.

So it is best to look at life, and try to live a good life.
Try to do good things.
Try to have fun.
Try to make the most out of it, because it might be the only life you have.
Maybe you will be reincarnated or something, or maybe not.
But all I know is that the entity that is you,
is only here from the time you are born, to the time you die.
You have a limited number of years, and then this life is over.
It might be over sooner than you think.
So don't waste it being miserable.
Don't waste it, hoping for something better in an afterlife.
Don't live you life, looking forward to a heaven that may not exist.

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Originally Posted by devil13

I'm an athiest
I feel it is my responsibilty to let you all know that there is no god.

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I swear that still gives me a healthy gut laugh everytime I hear it. Mainly cause those who don't buy into the whole supreme being thing go out of their way to make it known they don't believe in it. I'm guessing it's a product of ones enviornment...cause really how many here really care what other people believe in faith wise? is it even really an issue anymore? When was the last time ANY of you didn't date or befired somebody because of their faith or lack their of?

Hell..you'd think the whole planet thought like the Mid-East and their backward way of putting up such walls between people.

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Originally Posted by devil13

(also if there is no god there is no devil either) There is no one that can prove that there is a god

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Well you can't prove he's dead by saying so on a message board either...even on one as wonderful as this. You kinda need a lil bit more proof...at least a lock of hair or something. Maybe even a crime scene photo...or you know...some actual constructive thought on why he's dead when looking around the world it's pretty safe to say God, the Devil, (and bob!) still have a pulse.

Hell by your logic I may as well say PUNK IS DEAD!...again! for reals this time!

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Originally Posted by devil13

thats like trying to prove that the invisable man exists.

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Actually if you think about it it's be pretty easy to prove the invisible man existed...thermal devices for example could detect his body heat ...hell putting flour on a floor could catch his footsteps.

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Originally Posted by devil13

I come frome a religious family. I have read the bible and the satanic bible. I do know about religious history as well. More crimes, war, and hatred have been commited in the name of god than anything else in human history.

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So commiting a crime in the name of soemthing is somehow worse than the people actually commiting them? Also reading the Bible, The Satanic Bible, The Windows Bible, The Bible Bible and history books does not make one an expert on proclaiming the center figure of faiths dead...it just makes one wonder why with all that reading such a baseless opinion was formed. I'm all for saying God is dead...but you gotta back it up with more than soundbytes.

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Originally Posted by devil13

I feel as if this country is stepping backwards into the dark ages with all this B.S. about morals and god. I believe fully in the seperation of church and state. And why is it the governments responsibility to tell me what my morals should be in the first place? I like seeing that there still are some people fighting to keep the government in check by voicing their opinions and sueing the government to keep the ten commandments off government property, etc. But still there is a large majority of mainly "christains" who spew their hatred and at the same time try to impose morals on us all.

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Morality, ethics, and God can influence one another but are seperate in both nature and how one develops them. So you can't lump them together based on dogma or ones mans interpreation of them be it seperate or as a whole. As much as Christians may annoy us with their eternal preaching at least they do most of it in specially constructed cages where they eat the corpse and drink the blood of their saviour. It's not like one is getting kidnapped into church by gunpoint on a regular basis. I'm not great fan but Christians as a whole are only slightly less annoying that college rock fans...now you want to talk about kidnapping and preaching...their are your culprits.

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Originally Posted by devil13

I think it would be a better world if people would wake up to the fact that there is no god and start to think more for themselves not what the bible, the church, or the pope tell them to think.

I want to see how many of you feel the way I do or how many of you don't.

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People do...and guess what? They still royally fuck things up. Religion is a guide not a set of laws we have to follow (at least not in western nations). I can understand the emtion about it but it seems misplaced when the real power that has such rigid control is on a federal and state goverment level...and as much as religious fundementalists want to control that they still find those who see past their bullshit and keep them at bay...yet go to even the most liberal of cities and see how it's far from perfection...same with communities were religion is not dominant...still pretty fucked up.

I live in a city where thieir is a church on practicly every block...none hassle me to join, none bug me about god, and the only time I hear Jesus's name is inthe form of "Jesus did ya see the tits on that girl?". So while I'm aware the bible belt likes to kill off many...the communities they breed in are just as much to blame.

Give anything too much power and influence and you'll see how quickly our own savage nature takes over...with or without the G-O-D.

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

I swear that still gives me a healthy gut laugh everytime I hear it.

yea me too

Mainly cause those who don't buy into the whole supreme being thing go out of their way to make it known they don't believe in it.

most that do believe in a super friends being go out of there way to tell me im going to a hell I don't believe in

I'm guessing it's a product of ones enviornment...cause really how many here really care what other people believe in faith wise? is it even really an issue anymore? When was the last time ANY of you didn't date or befired somebody because of their faith or lack their of?

I started out by saying I have seen it in alot of these threads and in the medea soo yes it is an issue

Hell..you'd think the whole planet thought like the Mid-East and their backward way of putting up such walls between people.

christianity was spawned in the Mid-East and if they are backward what does that say about christianity?



Well you can't prove he's dead by saying so on a message board either...even on one as wonderful as this. You kinda need a lil bit more proof...at least a lock of hair or something. Maybe even a crime scene photo...or you know...some actual constructive thought on why he's dead when looking around the world it's pretty safe to say God, the Devil, (and bob!) still have a pulse.

thats what I was saying there is no proof that he ever existed

Hell by your logic I may as well say PUNK IS DEAD!...again! for reals this time!

by your logic blink 182 is punk for reals :Na_Na_Na_


Actually if you think about it it's be pretty easy to prove the invisible man existed...thermal devices for example could detect his body heat ...hell putting flour on a floor could catch his footsteps.

if you think about it you can catch fairies that way too




So commiting a crime in the name of soemthing is somehow worse than the people actually commiting them?

??????? when did I say anything about crime

Also reading the Bible, The Satanic Bible, The Windows Bible, The Bible Bible and history books does not make one an expert on proclaiming the center figure of faiths dead...it just makes one wonder why with all that reading such a baseless opinion was formed. I'm all for saying God is dead...but you gotta back it up with more than soundbytes.

didn't say I was an expert but saying that one exists on a baseless opinion is pretty much the norm




Morality, ethics, and God can influence one another but are seperate in both nature and how one develops them. So you can't lump them together based on dogma or ones mans interpreation of them be it seperate or as a whole. As much as Christians may annoy us with their eternal preaching at least they do most of it in specially constructed cages where they eat the corpse and drink the blood of their saviour. It's not like one is getting kidnapped into church by gunpoint on a regular basis. I'm not great fan but Christians as a whole are only slightly less annoying that college rock fans...now you want to talk about kidnapping and preaching...their are your culprits.






People do...and guess what? They still royally fuck things up. Religion is a guide not a set of laws we have to follow (at least not in western nations). I can understand the emtion about it but it seems misplaced when the real power that has such rigid control is on a federal and state goverment level...and as much as religious fundementalists want to control that they still find those who see past their bullshit and keep them at bay...yet go to even the most liberal of cities and see how it's far from perfection...same with communities were religion is not dominant...still pretty fucked up.

I live in a city where thieir is a church on practicly every block...none hassle me to join, none bug me about god, and the only time I hear Jesus's name is inthe form of "Jesus did ya see the tits on that girl?". So while I'm aware the bible belt likes to kill off many...the communities they breed in are just as much to blame.

Give anything too much power and influence and you'll see how quickly our own savage nature takes over...with or without the G-O-D.

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Originally Posted by TheDeathKnight

The way I look at it is this:

There is one truth that we can all see.

Our lives.

We live. We talk to people, we do things, etc.
We actually see and experience our own life.

We only know about this timeframe.
We only *claim* to know what happens afterwards.
No one has seen it. At least I have not.
As an athiest, I can not claim to know what happens.
Maybe I am wrong, and there *is* an afterlife.
All I know, is that no one really knows, until they die.

So it is best to look at life, and try to live a good life.
Try to do good things.
Try to have fun.
Try to make the most out of it, because it might be the only life you have.
Maybe you will be reincarnated or something, or maybe not.
But all I know is that the entity that is you,
is only here from the time you are born, to the time you die.
You have a limited number of years, and then this life is over.
It might be over sooner than you think.
So don't waste it being miserable.
Don't waste it, hoping for something better in an afterlife.
Don't live you life, looking forward to a heaven that may not exist.

---

:thumb:

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Originally Posted by devil13

I think it would be a better world if people would wake up to the fact that there is no god and start to think more for themselves not what the bible, the church, or the pope tell them to think.

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most people don't want to think for themselves.
They cheerfully obey the strangest religious rules,
and by doing so they don't have to feel responsible for anything, including themselves.
:bath:

I see God and the Devil as archetypes. They tend to be given anthropomorphic (human) qualities which such entities could not possibly have. I believe in no separate gods or devils.

OEC

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Originally Posted by darki

most people don't want to think for themselves.

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you'd be damn surprised just how many people say this.

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Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

I see God and the Devil as archetypes. They tend to be given anthropomorphic (human) qualities which such entities could not possibly have. I believe in no separate gods or devils.

OEC

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I agree man has allways given thier gods human qualities. but man has also had gods with animal qualities as well.

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Originally Posted by devil13

I agree man has allways given thier gods human qualities. but man has also had gods with animal qualities as well.

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True, altho one might argue that it is man's perceptions of the animals that are transferred onto the gods (I'm thinking in terms of polytheistic religions)

OEC

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Originally Posted by devil13

ok but how would I be wrong? do you have any facts?

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Do you have any facts that prove that god doesnt exist?

I think it is important to keep in mind that faith is important to a lot of people. Some people have faith in their Gods, some people have faith in nature and the lack of a higher being, and some people simply have faith in themselves and feel that their actions determine the quality of their future, etc. I think there is a line between a healthy discussion of one's faith and perhaps stepping on someone else's. To challenge one another in an unwinnable contest seems perhaps unreasonably agressive. But then again, feel free to share your own views, I just want people to respect others as well.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

I think it is important to keep in mind that faith is important to a lot of people. Some people have faith in their Gods, some people have faith in nature and the lack of a higher being, and some people simply have faith in themselves and feel that their actions determine the quality of their future, etc. I think there is a line between a healthy discussion of one's faith and perhaps stepping on someone else's. To challenge one another in an unwinnable contest seems perhaps unreasonably agressive. But then again, feel free to share your own views, I just want people to respect others as well.

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That's a good point. Ultimately, I have faith both in myself and a transcendental reality. To me, it is beyond the secular realm yet a part of one's being. It is ultimately futile to convince either atheists or those who live by religious precepts what can or cannot be known in our mortal existence. It is equally futile to refute my own sense of reality. I definitely believe that all faiths and/or non-faiths should be respected.

OEC

I believe in God. I don't mind that you don't. I'm not going to sit here & try to find errors in the things you say, it's what you believe & that's a good enough answer for me.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

I think it is important to keep in mind that faith is important to a lot of people. Some people have faith in their Gods, some people have faith in nature and the lack of a higher being, and some people simply have faith in themselves and feel that their actions determine the quality of their future, etc. I think there is a line between a healthy discussion of one's faith and perhaps stepping on someone else's. To challenge one another in an unwinnable contest seems perhaps unreasonably agressive. But then again, feel free to share your own views, I just want people to respect others as well.

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I couldn't have siad it better myself or as intelligentley....or maybe I could have....either way wells aid

I agree this country is headed into the dark ages, but I don't care whether the pres. is all about God or not, I just want some god-damn health care! If these politicians were REAL christians, they would be charitable and believe in just rewards for just work, you know I'm talking about a living wage! More and more companies are refusing to provide basic health care, hell all my professors at the university aren't even covered! If these people are going to be Christians, do what Jesus would do and feed the hungry!!

doesn't determining whether "GOD" is dead really depend on your belief of God?- Not that because you say "he", "she", "it" is dead- it had to exist to begin with- thats silly- but simply, if you're an athiest, of course god is dead- to you!!!- for you, whatever. Does that make sense anyone?- we all create our own reality, so for some, "god"- in whatever form they choose- can be very real.
theres this saying thats something like- "If God didn't exist- we would have created him/it"
and thats just it- as long as theres belief- its there... for the believer.

and just because one says they believe in god doesn't strictly mean they believe the same way the christian-psychofucks think-
I think its pretty safe to say that anything good is usually fucked up by humans sooner or later- so yeah- theres been a lot of zealots, criminals, and murderers that have used, and still use religion to back up thier agenda. But (I really can't believe Im saying this) theres also been a lot of good done in the name of different causes as well.

oh well- thats my 2 cents worth- my 5 on the 20 sack-

I actually kinda shudder to think of what the world would be like if everyone was athiest!!- but- Im totally with you on the seperation of church and state shit- its like nobody remembers that part of the constitution anymore!!!

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Originally Posted by Kidthorazine

Do you have any facts that prove that god doesnt exist?

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I dont need to. its like asking me to prove that peter pan doesnt exist

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

I think it is important to keep in mind that faith is important to a lot of people. Some people have faith in their Gods, some people have faith in nature and the lack of a higher being, and some people simply have faith in themselves and feel that their actions determine the quality of their future, etc. I think there is a line between a healthy discussion of one's faith and perhaps stepping on someone else's. To challenge one another in an unwinnable contest seems perhaps unreasonably agressive. But then again, feel free to share your own views, I just want people to respect others as well.

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I agree, but this subject does get people talking though

the funny thing is I didn't say whose or what god. when was the last time you prayed to Zues or Thor or Isis?? there are plenty of dead gods and religions.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. you shouldn't put so much stock in contemporary political "religious" figures, like George Bush. george bush is as much a chrisitian as osama bin ladin is a muslim- not at all. It's just using a popular group affiliation to rally a BS cause. also like I said before, if most of the people in america (or the middle east, or anywhere) were clowns you better beleive that anyone who wanted to have them on thier side would wear a red nose and big floppy shoes. it's not about spirituality it's just about power structure.

ps. Thor doesn't care about you puny mortals. YOUR'E dead to him.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. you shouldn't put so much stock in contemporary political "religious" figures, like George Bush. george bush is as much a chrisitian as osama bin ladin is a muslim- not at all. It's just using a popular group affiliation to rally a BS cause. also like I said before, if most of the people in america (or the middle east, or anywhere) were clowns you better beleive that anyone who wanted to have them on thier side would wear a red nose and big floppy shoes. it's not about spirituality it's just about power structure.

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Hee hee. So true. I would like to see GWB in floppy shoes and a red nose though...

and i say this is an endless issue and probaby just 1 out of 100 changes it's mind after a talk on the subject, as said before just live and let live, u wont stop dating or doing stuff anymore becouse of your believes, in fact now it's more interesting because you can exchange your point of view without having a mayor problem.

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Originally Posted by darki

most people don't want to think for themselves.
They cheerfully obey the strangest religious rules,
and by doing so they don't have to feel responsible for anything, including themselves.
:bath:

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For some people higher level thinking regarding morals are so hard to grasp that they need rules to feel they are doing right. Their souls are so young, they can't quite figure it out on their own yet. Strangely enough, I've met atheists with the same mentality. I know an elderly man who has a very young soul; he has a hard time thinking beyond what others tell him to think but instead of turning to religion he religiously obeys science. Even if he doesn't understand something, like the big bang, he says it must be true because a scientist said so. For some people, scientists are their preachers.

I say I'm an agnostic, mostly because you can't really prove or disprove that god exists. It's whatever a person wants it to be. Some people believe in god, others don't. People are entitled to their own opinion.

I took a course in the Old Testament this last semester. The professor (like most professors of religion) was an atheist so it was great to get a completely neutral point of view on the whole thing. I have to admit it was hysterical seeing fundies fuming when he took their faith and shredded it into pieces. I think it's funny that people want to go back to biblical laws without actually READING the bible. And I also find it funny that I know most evangelicals will be in "hell" for ignoring some things that Jesus says not to do (like praying in public). But to say that there is no god, well that's your opinion. But it's as much of a belief as chrisitianity.

well see my problem here is that Devil13 is behaving like there is less of a reason to believe that God exists than if he doesn't. Which is nonsense.

Now you mention reading the scriptures.....believe me, any donkey can run the bible into the ground..now try reading the Suma Theologica by Thomas Aquinas, next look at John Scottus Eriugena's The Pseudo - Dionysius, you might also like to try Scottus's Periphyseon.

St. Augustine would also be a good read seeing as how you are so interested in christian philosophy, because that’s what it is, a philosophy. Of course you'll also need to check out the neo-Platonist relationship with the early Christian philosophers too...

I'm not a practicing christian but I'll never be so vain as to declare that there is no God....as for reasons why there might be one....well just look around...

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Originally Posted by 23*

well see my problem here is that Devil13 is behaving like there is less of a reason to believe that God exists than if he doesn't. Which is nonsense.

Now you mention reading the scriptures.....believe me, any donkey can run the bible into the ground..now try reading the Suma Theologica by Thomas Aquinas, next look at John Scottus Eriugena's The Pseudo - Dionysius, you might also like to try Scottus's Periphyseon.

St. Augustine would also be a good read seeing as how you are so interested in christian philosophy, because that’s what it is, a philosophy. Of course you'll also need to check out the neo-Platonist relationship with the early Christian philosophers too...

I'm not a practicing christian but I'll never be so vain as to declare that there is no God....as for reasons why there might be one....well just look around...

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why do I need to read any of those? A book does not prove the existance of anything. anyone can write a book on anything. my point is why do we have to prove something doesnt exist? It should be that you would have to prove that it does. in any court of law you would have to prove without a shadow of a dout that something is what you say it is but, when it come to anything that has to do with religion it is on faith alone that a god exists.
As for the rise in talk about this subjuct (in government, the media, or whatever) your rights are slowly being taken away from you and you dont even see it. right now there is talks in congress to regulate pay programing the same way that regular progrom would be. if something like that passes whats next? the internet has been another area for concern this site would not exist if the religious right had their way.

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Originally Posted by devil13

why do I need to read any of those?

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..Why?, because these books attempt to provide proof of gods existence in a largely rational & sensible way.

Because when you say that "God is dead" you should at least look at the counter-arguments; if you are too lazy to this then at least mention that you don’t know what you are talking about in a footnote.

http://www.faithnet.org.uk/AS%20Subj...n/fiveways.htm

"In his work Summa Theologica Thomas Aquinas offered five 'proofs' for the existence of God. As with Catholicism today Aquinas believed it was possible to discern truths about God based on reason (human rationality) and revelation (divinely revealed truths not available to reason)."

Aquinas presents five ways to prove the existence of God.


Then there’s St. Anselm who used Aristotelian logic in his attempts to prove the existence of God and his ontological argument is pretty watertight even by today’s standards.

Even Descartes believed in a God!

Of course I'm not saying that you need to read these dudes, or even that they're correct, only that its stupid to believe that all Christians are bible-toting idiots who can only regurgitate articles from the scriptures when defending their beliefs

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Originally Posted by devil13

why do I need to read any of those? A book does not prove the existance of anything. anyone can write a book on anything. my point is why do we have to prove something doesnt exist? It should be that you would have to prove that it does. in any court of law you would have to prove without a shadow of a dout that something is what you say it is but, when it come to anything that has to do with religion it is on faith alone that a god exists.
As for the rise in talk about this subjuct (in government, the media, or whatever) your rights are slowly being taken away from you and you dont even see it. right now there is talks in congress to regulate pay programing the same way that regular progrom would be. if something like that passes whats next? the internet has been another area for concern this site would not exist if the religious right had their way.

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You are operating on the premise that human reason can prove or disprove the nature of reality. I do not believe it can. The religious right is an exoteric form of christianity which is not representative of the human spirit or even of christianity.

OEC

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Originally Posted by devil13

I'm an athiest and I see a lot of threads here talking about god or the devil. I also have seen a lot of talk in the media about religion in general (bush and his right wing nut job agenda).

I feel it is my responsibilty to let you all know that there is no god.
(also if there is no god there is no devil either) There is no one that can prove that there is a god, thats like trying to prove that the invisable man exists. You cant tell me "well the bible says....." because it's just a book, a well writen and edited book.
I come frome a religious family. I have read the bible and the satanic bible. I do know about religious history as well. More crimes, war, and hatred have been commited in the name of god than anything else in human history.


Isn't Johnny Depp god?

I feel as if this country is stepping backwards into the dark ages with all this B.S. about morals and god. I believe fully in the seperation of church and state. And why is it the governments responsibility to tell me what my morals should be in the first place? I like seeing that there still are some people fighting to keep the government in check by voicing their opinions and sueing the government to keep the ten commandments off government property, etc. But still there is a large majority of mainly "christains" who spew their hatred and at the same time try to impose morals on us all.

I think it would be a better world if people would wake up to the fact that there is no god and start to think more for themselves not what the bible, the church, or the pope tell them to think.

I want to see how many of you feel the way I do or how many of you don't.

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why is that god lost out for best picture and best actor then?

burn!

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

why is that god lost out for best picture and best actor then?

burn!

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that was jesus :crazy3:

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Originally Posted by 23*

..Why?, because these books attempt to provide proof of gods existence in a largely rational & sensible way.

Because when you say that "God is dead" you should at least look at the counter-arguments; if you are too lazy to this then at least mention that you don’t know what you are talking about in a footnote.

"In his work Summa Theologica Thomas Aquinas offered five 'proofs' for the existence of God. As with Catholicism today Aquinas believed it was possible to discern truths about God based on reason (human rationality) and revelation (divinely revealed truths not available to reason)."

Aquinas presents five ways to prove the existence of God.


Then there’s St. Anselm who used Aristotelian logic in his attempts to prove the existence of God and his ontological argument is pretty watertight even by today’s standards.

Even Descartes believed in a God!

Of course I'm not saying that you need to read these dudes, or even that they're correct, only that its stupid to believe that all Christians are bible-toting idiots who can only regurgitate articles from the scriptures when defending their beliefs

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I can attempt to prove that a god like Thor exists too and have a very rational and sensable way of doing it, but it still wouldnt make it fact. as far as me being to lazy well I really dont think that is the case and in fact if you think that, we can allways go back to threads about Paris Hiltons cell getting hacked or Fred Durst porn those really are informative and get people talking on an intalectual level :knockknoc

So did you see the Fred Durst Movie where he fucks Aristotle in the ass? Yeah Aristotle cums all over the place....

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Originally Posted by 23*

So did you see the Fred Durst Movie where he fucks Aristotle in the ass? Yeah Aristotle cums all over the place....

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...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have a weird sense of humor. :(

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Originally Posted by cheinara wraithwalker

...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have a weird sense of humor. :(

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shit that means i do too :(

what was that thing where the Ghostbusters where blasting Jesus? that was classic.