****In Memory of The Columbine Students Who Were Lost****

Mommy... Johnny brought a gun to school,
He told his friends that it was cool,
And when he pulled the trigger back,
It shot with a great crack.
Mommy, I was a good girl, I did what I was told,
I went to school, I got straight A's, I even got the gold!
But Mommy, when I went school that day,
I never said good-bye,
I'm sorry Mommy, I had to go, But Mommy, please don't cry. When Johnny shot
the gun, He hit me and another,
And all because Johnny, Got the gun from his older brother.
Mommy, please tell Daddy; That I love him very much,
And please tell Chris; my boyfriend; That it wasn't just a crush.
And tell my little sister; That she is the only one now,
And tell my dear sweet grandmother; I'll be waiting for her now, And tell my
wonderful friends; That they always were the best; Mommy, I'm not the first,
I'm no better than the rest.
Mommy, tell my teachers; I won't show up for class,
And never to forget this, And please don't let this pass.
Mommy, why'd it have to be me? No one deserves this,
Mommy, warn the others, Mommy I left without a kiss.
And Mommy tell the doctors; I know they really did try,
I think I even saw a doctor, Trying not to cry.
Mommy, I'm slowly dying, With a bullet in my chest,
But Mommy please remember, I'm in heaven with the rest. Mommy I ran as fast
as I could,
When I heard that crack, Mommy, listen to me if you would,
I wanted to go to college; I wanted to try things that were new,
I! guess I'm not going with Daddy, On that trip to the new zoo.
I wanted to get married, I wanted to have a kid,
I wanted to be an actress, Mommy, I wanted to live.
But Mommy I must go now, The time is getting late,
Mommy, tell my Chris, I'm sorry but I had to cancel the date.
I love you Mommy, I always have, I know; you know it's true, And Mommy all
I wanted to say is, "Mommy, I love you."
****In Memory of The Columbine Students Who Were Lost****
Please if you would,
Pass this around,
I'd be happy if you could,
Don't smash this on the ground.
If you pass this on,
Maybe people will cry,
Just keep this in your heart,
For the people who didn't get to say "Good-bye."

what's your point? did you write that?

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that the Gothic subculture didn't have a god damned thing to do with Columbine. I realize it's a tragedy and all that, but it honestly makes me angry that the various subcultures that have had this terrible event pinned on them have done such a monumentally bad job of keeping blame where it belongs.

What sub-culture pinning? Is this just an L.A. thing? No one I know talks about this event anymore unless they're a theologian, sociologist/pyschologist or documentarian/historian?

This event was sad yes, but damn time to move on.

I can understand the mentality that lead to em (hell I know I wanted to do the same thing in H.S.) but really at the end of the day shooting unarmed people no matter how much you hate them is cowardly and makes you WORSE than what you hate.

More so when you see how random the shootings were and how young some of the victims were...killing 14 year olds...is fucking pathetic. I can understand killing those who beat up on you...but a 14 year old freshman?

The shooters were pathetic and wore their alienation as a badge of honor it seems..."The Trench Coat Mafia"...fuckers should have died just for inventing such an inane group name.

This is one of those cases were the argument for "where the fuck were the parents" comes into full bloom. I've known gang members with less firepower at hand...these nutty white boys had a god damned arsenal at hand. That by itself is insane.

I dunno about you guys but my parents (mom mainly) always found anything I was hiding...how these guys kept so many guns and bought so many is a sad thing to see...at that age you should not be allowed to have your own arsenal. It just screams "Not a good idea". I know some schools have shooting teams but at least there you have responsible adults and enviornments for that sport. These pair of twits were in the friggin woods shooting and blowing shit up without so much as a cop going "Hey...what the hell are you boys doing?"...and the video taped it?

Who breeds these kids? who ignores them and fails to raise them to such horrible levels that they can feel following through on such a horrid act is justifiable?

Again I can sympathize with the why...but not with the actions.

.............. I did a paper on this for my college freshman english class. While I'm sure their life sucked at school (I can't think of anyone where this hasn't been the case........... well except the football players but fuck 'em) but it doesn't give an excuse to kill. Most of these school shootings happen for some of the stupidest reasons. I remember the one in Arkansas where the kid liked this girl and she turned him down so he shot people............ fucking dumbasses.

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

... and wore their alienation as a badge of honor it seems..."The Trench Coat Mafia"...fuckers should have died just for inventing such an inane group name.

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But they didn't come up with the name. The name was pinned on the spooky arty kids in that school because they wore black. However, that group of arty kids didn't accept Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold either because they were not cool and certainly not stable. It was really just a case of horribly bad journalism that allowed such a 'sexy' monicker to be associated with the pair at all.

Demonizing the alterna-culture scene for that tragedy has lead to countless inappropriate acts ranging from discrimination to straight up assault.

We didn't cause that, but we sure suffer for it today. I can't tell you how much more difficult it is to get distribution for 'gothic' magazines since that event. People justify going over the views expressed in the publications with a fine toothed comb, thinking they are going to save the world from such events. They think that if they could just water down anything they see as aggressive or political being communicated from within the various dark clothing wearing subcultures, they are doing the greater good.

But spooky culture didn't cause that. Marilyn Manson didn't cause that. Gothic.net didn't cause that.

The over medication of todays youth mixed with an abusive social structure in a school that turned a blind eye caused that.

I am sick to death of Gothic and Columbine being synonymous. In my mind, WebMD is a more appropriate forum for the topic than BlueBlood. I'm not saying you can't talk about it here, but I want to make my feelings on the topic perfectly clear. I hope people understand.

You sure? I thought they came up with it...you're not the first to correct me on that but I keep hearing conflicting stories.

The whole goth thing they pinned it on was simply an easy exit for people to use so no blame fell on them. It was simple to avoid what caused the problems these boys had and more so took the light off how REALLY screwed up H.S. culture has become...anyone who dared asked had their story buried.

Manson has never had a song that says "Go kill everyone who hates you" yet they love to make it sound like he does...that pissess me off. They take an image and add what they want to it and sell it as truth.

Columbine was and always will be an issue about the breakdown of communication and understanding...the two main issues facing our modern school system and many families.

It's just hard to buy into the fact so many honestly think a certain subculture can make anyone do anything without question...they never want to look beyond that.

It's true that anything "gothic" was pretty much censored since the school shootings of the era though one has to wonder if it was so bad...why has it become so accepted as a "phase" kids now go through amoung these harsh critics? Seems they are at the same time over demonizing it and downplaying it at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

Columbine was and always will be an issue about the breakdown of communication and understanding...the two main issues facing our modern school system and many families.

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I know you are far from being the most liberal person here and I know you are not kneejerk and think about things for real, but I think there is a liberal notion that everything can be explained and that evil is just a misunderstanding.

I think many of the teachers and other adults around those two overmedicated teens and their tormenters were wholly aware of what was going on. These adults saw how tortured those boys were. These adults tried to drug the boys' complaints away. They did nothing to stop the cruelty that made the children finally snap. I don't think there was a communication breakdown. I think they knew what they were allowing to go on. The adults who should have been responsible were bad people who could have easily stopped the suffering of those children in their care and chose not to do so.

Those two disturbed and suffering teens who shot their classmates did not do so indiscriminately. They let some people go and chased down others. I can only extrapolate from that that they were going after the specific people who had made their lives such a living hell that they wanted to die.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I know you are far from being the most liberal person here and I know you are not kneejerk and think about things for real, but I think there is a liberal notion that everything can be explained and that evil is just a misunderstanding.

I think many of the teachers and other adults around those two overmedicated teens and their tormenters were wholly aware of what was going on. These adults saw how tortured those boys were. These adults tried to drug the boys' complaints away. They did nothing to stop the cruelty that made the children finally snap. I don't think there was a communication breakdown. I think they knew what they were allowing to go on. The adults who should have been responsible were bad people who could have easily stopped the suffering of those children in their care and chose not to do so.

Those two disturbed and suffering teens who shot their classmates did not do so indiscriminately. They let some people go and chased down others. I can only extrapolate from that that they were going after the specific people who had made their lives such a living hell that they wanted to die.

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All that is indeed true. Thing is however that in a High School students need to understand they are not suppose to be the center of anyone's attention other than their parents. In an age where the class minimum is 30 to 40 a class...their is simply no way to address all the issues an individual student may have without ignoring those of nearly everyone else. High School teachers are barely qualified to teach their OWN classess these days let alone try to provide counseling for a troubled student...even school counselers are swamped with little support when they DO find a troubled teen since they have no real authority to do much about it if the student and parents don't cooperate. Factor in that the two killers never really seemed to want help and may have wanted to feel as isolated as they did. Their is a certain comfort in blaming everyone else for a fucked up life...violence seems to have been a much more prevalent preocupation than just the time leading up to the massacre. I simply feel their is as much blame to be handed out on the killers and their kin than the victims and tormenters.

Once you cross that line of becoming what you hate...you simply lose any and all right to be seen as "less evil" so to speak. As much as the jocks may make fun of you and call you fag...you can't put a gun to their head and blow their brains out thinking it's ok. Their was a gross failinn in the support structure for these boys and in those who had authority...but each of us know in the times after High School assholes stll exist and some ARE the authority...and as much as we want to kill them we can't. Those boys never learned how to channel their frustrations and hate...they allowed themselves to be consumed by it as much as any other did.

As far as victims go...some were delibrate but others were quite random and far from justifiable. Look at how some wew underclassman and girls. Plus look how the final part was in the school library...NO school has the library as the hangout for the "cool kids" and "jocks"...so one has to wonder how much of it was revenge and how much was sadistic murder.

Not every kid made fun of them...and not every victim was their enemy. It was a mess of a massacre that's been mixed up and misused to blame all except the more truthful aspects of it. When ou look at the millions who go through the same thing and DON'T kill everyone around them one needs to wonder...what makes them no do it? I think that's where the real answer on how to prevent future such killings are...too bad no one seems to be looking for a solution just a band aide like metal detectors and dress codes.

I think there is no reason to believe that teenage girls can't be at least as evil as teenage boys in tormenting others. Maybe not physically, but those kids were messed up mentally far more than physically.

I think that if teachers see teens for example throwing doughnuts at another student's black clothing or putting that student in a trash can and they do nothing, then they are complicit when the victim finally snaps.

Does it make the victim a good person that he snapped because he was tormented? No, of course not. But it makes the people who created more evil in the world by torturing him evil as well, possibly more evil.

The kids who became murderers clearly sought some sort of help or they would not have been inappropriately medicated.

I think that the torment they received with the apparent approval of the supposed authorities around them combined with medication which divorced them from their emotions is what lead them to kill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I think there is no reason to believe that teenage girls can't be at least as evil as teenage boys in tormenting others. Maybe not physically, but those kids were messed up mentally far more than physically.

I think that if teachers see teens for example throwing doughnuts at another student's black clothing or putting that student in a trash can and they do nothing, then they are complicit when the victim finally snaps.

Does it make the victim a good person that he snapped because he was tormented? No, of course not. But it makes the people who created more evil in the world by torturing him evil as well, possibly more evil.

The kids who became murderers clearly sought some sort of help or they would not have been inappropriately medicated.

I think that the torment they received with the apparent approval of the supposed authorities around them combined with medication which divorced them from their emotions is what lead them to kill.

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Medication was clearly an issue given the known side effects and sadly still in practice but was it they who chose to take the meds or was it others forcing it on them to keep them in line? Was the damage already done before they went on meds or was it amplified by them? When you look at their video's, hobbies, and general tone they carry...it's hard to understand how their own parents could be so unknowing. They were making pipe bombs in the garage and stored weapons in their rooms. While one of the gunman clearly stated who knew how to manipulate his parents...wouldn't that also make him just as easy to manipulate those who wanted to help him in thinking he was ok?

The behaviour involved on both sides makes me wonder how much was total choice and free will and how much was influenced by the cruel nature of thier peers.

Teen girls can be vicious...and it's true teens in general are mean to those they want to exclude. But I don't think that makes them more evil than kids who shoot up a school. As much as we hate to admit it that behaviour is not jsut a right of passage but natural and unstoppable. We do it before we go to school and after without so much as a second thought. The only way to curb it is to make High School much less rigid and much less restrictive. It should be 8 hours, 5 days a week. It should not be so packed to the gills in class size, and mandatory activities should not even be allowed. Forcing people who will NEVER get along in situations of extreme stress is always a recipe for disaster and High School are a breeding ground for it. Their is has to be a reason why it's more prevalent here in the states than in other nations...it's not the easy access to guns.

Stress is way to high on the under 30 set...I know 3 people in their early 20's who inthe last 2 years have each had nervous breakdowns. It's becoming too prevalent for younger and younger people to be pressured and broken like adults. That alone would make anyone snap since that's the major factor in adult mass killings.

Anyone wonder why it's mainly boys though? Why don't teen girls (at least those not in gangs) kill people in such a way? Girls can be sadistic as hell in fist fights but they've yet to pick up a rifle and shoot up a school...is their a gender reason for it?

My point about the girls was that I think the shooters were not indiscriminate in who they shot. There is not reason to think that some of their victims being female meant that they were not cherry-picking the people they wanted to kill. I am not saying I favor capital punishment for emotional sadism, but I do think that responsible adults should nip this sort of problem in the bud. I don't think Columbine was exceptionally poor and I don't think anyone is denying that the teachers witnessed what was going on. The parents may have been somewhat absent, but the teachers knew damn well and they did nothing. Or at least nothing sufficient.

I think the overmedication of the young is very much a problem in this sort of situation. Zillions of teens have made pipe bombs or stockpiled weapons and fantasized about murdering every obnoxious person in their high school. But how many have done it? Very very few.

I don't think that stricter or more permissive rules would totally fix the problem of high school socialization. Teens tend to not be fully formed yet. They can't figure it all out on their own. Or at least they shouldn't have to. That is why there are supposed to be adults supervising them. Responsible adults.

If we can be taught to hate, we can also be taught not to hate.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I don't think that stricter or more permissive rules would totally fix the problem of high school socialization. Teens tend to not be fully formed yet. They can't figure it all out on their own. Or at least they shouldn't have to. That is why there are supposed to be adults supervising them. Responsible adults.

If we can be taught to hate, we can also be taught not to hate.

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High Schools keep looking more and more like Prisons though. The one I went to has more gates, cameras, and darker feel to it than when I went there. It simply has the look of a containment area than a place to learn and grow. Forcing so many teens in one place for so long in such packed ways...just seems like one is asking for trouble. I agree responsible adults are needed...but with burn outs, unqualified, and under paid adults teaching...it seems to be asking too much. More so when you have quite a few sleeping with students.

It's true you can be taught not to hate...but at that age it's an easy emotion to escape into and abuse...no one seems to want to curbe it if anything it's exploited.

Couldn't resist:

January 1979 – Brenda Spencer, 17, got a rifle for Christmas and used it to shoot into an elementary school across the street from her home in San Diego, California. Eight children and a police officer were injured, and two men lost their lives protecting the kids. When the six-hour standoff finally ended, Brenda explained with a shrug, “I don’t like Mondays.”

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

Couldn't resist:

January 1979 – Brenda Spencer, 17, got a rifle for Christmas and used it to shoot into an elementary school across the street from her home in San Diego, California. Eight children and a police officer were injured, and two men lost their lives protecting the kids. When the six-hour standoff finally ended, Brenda explained with a shrug, “I don’t like Mondays.”

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Never even heard of this case. Gonna have to read more about it. Wonder why it's not brought up? I've read a lot of stories and articles on school shootings and have yet to hear this one mentioned (or any before the 90's really).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

Never even heard of this case. Gonna have to read more about it. Wonder why it's not brought up? I've read a lot of stories and articles on school shootings and have yet to hear this one mentioned (or any before the 90's really).

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a huge hit song was spawned by the event which still gets radio play today

I Don't Like Mondays

Sung by: Boomtown Rats
Written by: Bob Geldof

The silicon chip inside her head
Gets switched to overload
And nobody's gonna go to school today
She's going to make them stay at home
And daddy doesn't understand it
He always said she was as good as gold
And he can see no reason
Cos there are no reasons
What reason do you need to be shown

Tell me why
I don't like Mondays
I want to shoot
The whole day down

The telex machine is kept so clean
As it types to a waiting world
And mother feels so shocked
Father's world is rocked
And their thoughts turn to
Their own little girl
Sweet 16 ain't that peachy keen
No, it ain't so neat to admit defeat
They can see no reasons
Cos there are no reasons
What reason do you need to be shown

Tell me why
I don't like Mondays
I want to shoot
The whole day down

All the playings stopped in the playground now
She wants to play with her toys a while
And school's out early and soon we'll be learning
And the lesson today is how to die
And then the bullhorn crackles
And the captain crackles
With the problems and the how's and why's
And he can see no reasons
Cos there are no reasons
What reason do you need to die

The silicon chip ...

Tell me why
I don't like Mondays
I want to shoot
The whole day down

it is not brought up because boomers want to whine about how this generation is so violent and not like their hippy sweetness which only gave rise to things like this and charles manson. it is political and i hate that.

the song i don't like mondays was also a top 40 download this month and last in digital format

Clipped from Mercola.com, which claims to be the world's most visited and trusted natural health website:

Luvox is in a class of antidepressants called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) that interact with the serotonergic system in the brain, as do Prozac, Zoloft and Paxil. Street drugs that interact with the serotonergic system include LSD and Ecstasy. The Food and Drug Administration approved Luvox in 1997 for treatment of obsessive-compulsive disorder in children, but not for treatment of depression.

The Physicians Desk Reference (PDR) records that, during controlled clinical trials of Luvox, manic reactions developed in 4 percent of children. Mania is defined as "a form of psychosis characterized by exalted feelings, delusions of grandeur ... and overproduction of ideas." Court records show that the prescription for Harris had been filled 10 times between April 1998 and March 1999, and that three-and-a-half months before the shooting the dose had been increased - a common thread many experts say they are finding prior to adverse reactions to psychotropic drugs. The autopsy on Harris revealed a "therapeutic level" of Luvox in his system.

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Originally Posted by karyn

a huge hit song was spawned by the event which still gets radio play today

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Given I have never been a big radio listener..no shock why I never heard it.

That reminds me of a song too:

"I heard the news from Colorado,
about a couple of kids
that went to school and tried to kill everyone.
They said they did it just for kicks.
I saw the president on the TV,
he said we really gotta do something about this.
He said we gotta stop this culture of violence,
then went on to explain why we need to drop bombs on all the Serbian kids."