Why must adult celebrities be role models for children?

We the People of the Fraggle Rock, in Order to form a more perfect Union... ugh...


Over the last few years, I have heard a lot of people complain about what sort of example or role model various public figures were providing for the children of our society. I really don't understand this at all. If a musician writes songs for adults to relate to, about adult issues, why should they be pressured into some sort of Mr. Rogers role for the sake of the supposed greater good? Is it not enough that they appeal to the audience that they are supposed to? Why are we trying to dumb down and/or candy coat everything in our various cultures to the very lowest common denominator? Why must everything be built for ages 6 through 12? If I were a parent, yes, I would do my best to steer my kid(s) towards the right things. I'd teach them about all the great cultural heros and try to instill an appreciation for goodness, but I would be under no illusion that there would be things that were built for me to appreciate and not them. At least not at their age anyway. America, at least, is supposed to be a bit of a melting pot, or stew as some people have argued, and that requires diversity. In a diverse environment, it is our freedom to choose to appreciate that which we enjoy and that which is good for us, and it is also our responsibility to respect or at least tolerate that which we do not feel directly appeals to us. Sure, if something is really really wrong, we can speak up against it, but some of the things people seem to speak up against just don't make any sense to me. Should Marilyn Manson be a role model for a six year old? Come on, I don't think that was his goal. I don't think that's his audience. I am really sick of having freedom, liberty, and speech attacked in the name of protecting children. This is not one kindergarten under God, with cookies and naptime for all.

One could say it's all due to lazy parenting but it seems to be the parents themselves trying to OVER parent a kid and conform the world around their child to be safe, loving, and pretty...basicly a nice little lie we all wish was true forever and ever. Has anyone ever talked to kids that age? They're pretty smart and few want their adult idols to be watered down...they LIKE them them way they already are. Most kids know what to take and what to leave with their influences...

The "tweening" of America is indeed in full blood and until it becomes unprofitable to market to this large cash cow we're gonna see it more and more. Look at Hot Topic...it's become a teen and preteen girls shop and quite "safe" for parents too.

Economics is a powerful factor in making popular celebs appealing to the widest and biggest spending demographics...I hate it. Mainly cause I'm sick of seeing R-rated movies turned into PG-13 crap fests.

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

Economics is a powerful factor in making popular celebs appealing to the widest and biggest spending demographics...I hate it. Mainly cause I'm sick of seeing R-rated movies turned into PG-13 crap fests.

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Word. I just finally saw part of Mars Attacks. If that movie were either darker or lighter, it could have been good, but that PG-13 thang I couldn't even sit through to the end.

I understand trying to reach the max audience, but I think that is kind of a separate issue. What I'm talking about here are all the supposedly freaky cool people nearly quoting the PMRC. If an artist stretches their material a bit to make more money or get better distribution, sure, I understand debating the merits and/or artistic integrity of that. However, in this case, I'm talking about the widespread criticism of adult artists who create adult media. When I talk about adult media, I'm not really talking about porn, just simply media that is designed to appeal to adults, such as music, television, movies, etc. I hear a lot of people spout their outrage that anything designed for adults should be softened so as not to potentially disrupt the sensibilities of our poor innocent children.

First off i have to say that i am a parent of two young children (3 and 7) and i am against any form of censorship of the media. It is not up to the nation or any other governing group to decide what my kids may or may not see. It is MY job to make that decision, until they are of a legal and mature age to decide for themselves. If more parents would get off their lazy fucking asses and do what they should do then all this talk of inappropriate role models wouldn't even be a concern. I like my Adult Swim to be just that "Adult" and if it isnt fitting for my children I'll decide that. Kids are a lot smarted than most people suspect or give them credit for. But that dosen't remove the parents obligation to teach their kids.

It's not that they "must" appeal it's the simple fact that they do. I don't think that any amount of shelter or guidence will prevent a child from the appeal of adult celeberties.

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Originally Posted by Camby Savelle

It's not that they "must" appeal it's the simple fact that they do. I don't think that any amount of shelter or guidence will prevent a child from the appeal of adult celeberties.

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kids like candy too and it is a parent's job to keep them away from too much of things which are bad for them. do you think adults should have no entertainment which is not also entertainment for kids? i hate barney.

Hell The parents have a job to do. If they see something thier kids are watching or listening too that isn't for them, they need to turn it off. Parents don't these days never do enough of thier job

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Originally Posted by karyn

kids like candy too and it is a parent's job to keep them away from too much of things which are bad for them. do you think adults should have no entertainment which is not also entertainment for kids? i hate barney.

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No I don't think that, do you?

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Originally Posted by Camby Savelle

No I don't think that, do you?

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just because adult celebrities do appeal to children even if they are not supposed to and are bad for them what would you suggest be done? candy is bad for children and it is legal and widely available and parents seem to have figured out how to deal with that. that is a metaphor if you were wondering.

The reason is, and always has been, because kids often like the stuff that is geared towards adults. In my time prince and maddona and every heavy metal band got, little latter got it, before that, KIIS, Hendrix, the Beatles, Elvis, Jazz and blues, before that, I don't know fiddles?

Marylin Manson should not be a role model for children but he is. Kids like (or liked is he still big, god I feel old) him. Just telling your kids not to listen to him or taking the albums from them usually doesn't work, think back a little, you remember. So we are left with him eing a role model and parents lashing out in frustration, like they always have just now with better news coverage. We loose freedom in some places, we gain it in others. We keep up the fight. Just don't let them child proof the world, write the FCC and complain that someone on TV said darn instead of fuck and you think that teaches children the wrong lesson ;) bad guys don't say darn only the good guys.

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Originally Posted by karyn

just because adult celebrities do appeal to children even if they are not supposed to and are bad for them what would you suggest be done? candy is bad for children and it is legal and widely available and parents seem to have figured out how to deal with that. that is a metaphor if you were wondering.

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I don't have any suggestions, I don't feel the need to offer one either.

You're asking me questions about arguements I didn't make.

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Originally Posted by Camby Savelle

I don't have any suggestions, I don't feel the need to offer one either.

You're asking me questions about arguements I didn't make.

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wow that is constructive. maybe you need to make your point more clearly.

the world is twisted.
It's not the fault of the parents anymore, shit, celebrity worship is the new religion. i sometimes get the impression that people don't realise that celebrities are just human beings too...seriously.

I remember seeing Xzibit (the guy who now presents Pimp My Ride) playing a gig once, it was raining, the stage was wet and he was prancing around doing his macho bullshit and then he slipped and fell on his ass....

its not just the kids that worship these morons its the adults too, if parents can do anything they can teach their children the idiocy of hero worship.
Enjoy people for what they are, but remember, they're no better than you.

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Originally Posted by 23*

the world is twisted.
It's not the fault of the parents anymore, shit, celebrity worship is the new religion. i sometimes get the impression that people don't realise that celebrities are just human beings too...seriously.

I remember seeing Xzibit (the guy who now presents Pimp My Ride) playing a gig once, it was raining, the stage was wet and he was prancing around doing his macho bullshit and then he slipped and fell on his ass....

its not just the kids that worship these morons its the adults too, if parents can do anything they can teach their children the idiocy of hero worship.
Enjoy people for what they are, but remember, they're no better than you.

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I'm not sure stoning people and worship should be confused. The general public is overwhelmingly negative about celebrities these days. Nobody wants to be positive and supportive and appreciative anymore, they all feel that being super critical is the only form of attention that is appropriate. Too many people feel 'hate' when they see someone else doing well or looking good or being successful. So, they complain 'what about the children' to reel people in and pressure them towards a level of bland sure to make them lose the limelight they deserve. I totally reject that notion, but I think I'm very much in the minority. Sure, if there is something negative that seems like it should be brought up, I think that is certainly ok, but it just seems to me that negative things are ALL some people have to comment about anymore.

heres a big part of the problem folks-
most parents nowadays are use to letting the TV(celebrities) be thier baby sitter- so they expect a "role-model" to be there, because like it or not thats what the kids are going to emulate- to some degree.
When the kids emulate the parents bad behavior, its easier to blame celebs. Kids always want to be adult- I never once as a kid thought- "wow, its great to be a kid"- did any of you? if so you may be an exception.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

We the People of the Fraggle Rock, in Order to form a more perfect Union... ugh...


Over the last few years, I have heard a lot of people complain about what sort of example or role model various public figures were providing for the children of our society. I really don't understand this at all. If a musician writes songs for adults to relate to, about adult issues, why should they be pressured into some sort of Mr. Rogers role for the sake of the supposed greater good? Is it not enough that they appeal to the audience that they are supposed to? Why are we trying to dumb down and/or candy coat everything in our various cultures to the very lowest common denominator? Why must everything be built for ages 6 through 12? If I were a parent, yes, I would do my best to steer my kid(s) towards the right things. I'd teach them about all the great cultural heros and try to instill an appreciation for goodness, but I would be under no illusion that there would be things that were built for me to appreciate and not them. At least not at their age anyway. America, at least, is supposed to be a bit of a melting pot, or stew as some people have argued, and that requires diversity. In a diverse environment, it is our freedom to choose to appreciate that which we enjoy and that which is good for us, and it is also our responsibility to respect or at least tolerate that which we do not feel directly appeals to us. Sure, if something is really really wrong, we can speak up against it, but some of the things people seem to speak up against just don't make any sense to me. Should Marilyn Manson be a role model for a six year old? Come on, I don't think that was his goal. I don't think that's his audience. I am really sick of having freedom, liberty, and speech attacked in the name of protecting children. This is not one kindergarten under God, with cookies and naptime for all.

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Oh I totally agree with you, but it's all about money. Isn't everything about money? That's a big money market, age six through twelve, the "tweens".

Also, the media has made children more important than adults. The media now encourages children to be a bit cynical of anything adult. I have noticed that children have a lot less respect for adults than they did before.

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Originally Posted by MistressJennifer

Also, the media has made children more important than adults. The media now encourages children to be a bit cynical of anything adult. I have noticed that children have a lot less respect for adults than they did before.

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the situation in sweden is brilliant. Television advertising aimed at children is disallowed, i think this should be the status-quo everywhere.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

I'm not sure stoning people and worship should be confused. The general public is overwhelmingly negative about celebrities these days. Nobody wants to be positive and supportive and appreciative anymore, they all feel that being super critical is the only form of attention that is appropriate. Too many people feel 'hate' when they see someone else doing well or looking good or being successful. So, they complain 'what about the children' to reel people in and pressure them towards a level of bland sure to make them lose the limelight they deserve. I totally reject that notion, but I think I'm very much in the minority. Sure, if there is something negative that seems like it should be brought up, I think that is certainly ok, but it just seems to me that negative things are ALL some people have to comment about anymore.

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Why should anyone be supportive and appreciative of a generation of pop music mimed by cross-over movie stars? Why should anyone be supportive and appreciative of actors who cant act and singers that cant sing.

As for stoning. I don't know anybody who resents a celebrity because he or she looks good or is making money, we resent the fact that these people are masquerading under the name 'artist' and trying to sell our children expensive sport shoes probably made by people who's lifetime salary will resemble their monthly income. I don't hate celebrities at all, I actually do my utmost to ignore them.

But do I sympathise with them?
hell no.....they should know what to expect when they drag their talentless asses into showbiz....negative?...maybe...

Every adult is a role model for children! I am a great role model. :D

I'm a role model for freethinkers. Wait, that's not something people smile at here in the U.S.

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Originally Posted by a_small_death

I'm a role model for freethinkers. Wait, that's not something people smile at here in the U.S.

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Thomas Edison...? Who....? Robert Goddard...? Never heard of him. Howard Hughes...? Oh yeah, he's the guy that started Playboy right! With the pipe and the babes... I love that guy!!

Yeah. The United States... Home of the NON-freethinking people.

Kids are sponges. They absorb EVERYTHING. Especially the so-called "children's programming," which I find to be far more detrimental to a child's development than if he/she stumbled upon some adult programming. Shows on Cartoon Network consistently portray adults as retards and feature what look like 8-year olds (Bratz) discussing prom. PROM!! My friend's daughter is SIX!! She doesn't need to think about prom, she needs to think about 6-4=2, which she still gets wrong EVERY DAMN TIME!! She has had a GameBoy since she was 4. Her mother missed her FIRST day of First Grade because she stayed up late having sex with her boyfriend. Her mother DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE that her ex-husband's new girlfriend bought her a Britney Spears CD. Not only is that bad taste in general, it is sooo bad for a kid. Kids need to hear a greater depth in music so that they don't take it for granted - they are developing listening skills that will last the rest of their life. If I had a kid, I wouldn't want its poor little ears to be trained on Britney.

So generally (because I am clearly ranting with no direction at this point), I don't think the problem with kids lies in my Adult programming, but in two places:

1) mass media's marketing blitz to fragile minds (whose parents have deep pockets), and
2) the child's home.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Word. I just finally saw part of Mars Attacks. If that movie were either darker or lighter, it could have been good, but that PG-13 thang I couldn't even sit through to the end.

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Hehe, I saw it on TV the other night too.

I listened to all that "bad" stuff as a kid, and look where I ended up!

HERE!!

Hahahahahaha!!!

But seriously, I think it is much better for parents to give kids the straight up facts about the good things in life, as well as the brutal and honest facts about the bad things in life. Kids should know about sex, drugs, violence, and their good and bad sides. It's only when the kids have no guidance that they run amock, and make stupid decisions. My parents were hippies, and they told me all about their drug experiences honestly. From the good things, to the bad things. From cool experiences, to bad trips, addiction, etc. So I had a good, honest set of information to work with. So I was not just some idiot kid who could be convinced that it is cool if my favorite artist thinks it is cool. I knew it was cool, but also knew the downsides, and made my own smart decisions about my life. It's the kids without giudance that follow the crowd, or follow the artists and the media. That's the problem. So if you take the worse case scenario, that parents are not educating their kids, and not giving them honest info, then you do have to look at what the schools, society, and artists are teaching them. I do not think the answer is to censor the artists. I just wish the artists would do their part to show life as it really is, and show both the good and bad sides of all those issues. If a gangster rap artist raps about killing and dealing dope, they should also rap about their friends who died, and about going to jail, and how they decided to do something else with their life. You can't candy-coat life in art, but you can show the bad sides of life too, and give kids hope and ideas of how to get out of the situations they are in...

its funny how parents dont allow their kids to listen to certain music. i know when i was little and listening to songs about sex and drugs i didnt understand and to me it was just music, now that i understand it all i laugh. people need to lighten up. ive never gotten the whole role model thing though, i never looked up to any famous people to be like them...

I don't believe adult celebrities should be role models for children. It is first, and foremost, the job of parents to create an environment conducive to the growth and happiness of their children.

I believe in part the problem you (Forrest) are seeing is due to the saturation of media. Kids can and generally will have access to inappropriate material. I believe the negativity you see is due to an increasingly (win-lose) attitude in much of our society. A lot of people operate from a mentality that believes that one person's victory is their defeat.

There are, however, people that are just disguisted by the mainstream media. They may be broadening the net and bashing celebrities for being famous. With the kids, I think cynicism and hyper-criticism are being sold to them as forms of rebellion and/or individuality. I would still place the blame squarely on the adults/parents who pay for the circus rather than the kids eating popcorn and acting out.

OEC

Thing I believe is parents need to be the Role Models for thier kids. Nothing hard to grasp in this concept.

I guess it's all where you're from and where you're going. My parents told be diversity is important, give others a break and we love you. That's a great example, but (I sometimes think) it's pretty normal to look at the famous like demi-gods and try to model ourselves after them. For some reason we think we can (and we actually do occassionally) become great like them. I try to ignore all that stuff, but I'm human like everyone else, from time to time.

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Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

I don't believe adult celebrities should be role models for children. It is first, and foremost, the job of parents to create an environment conducive to the growth and happiness of their children.

I believe in part the problem you (Forrest) are seeing is due to the saturation of media. Kids can and generally will have access to inappropriate material. I believe the negativity you see is due to an increasingly (win-lose) attitude in much of our society. A lot of people operate from a mentality that believes that one person's victory is their defeat.

There are, however, people that are just disguisted by the mainstream media. They may be broadening the net and bashing celebrities for being famous. With the kids, I think cynicism and hyper-criticism are being sold to them as forms of rebellion and/or individuality. I would still place the blame squarely on the adults/parents who pay for the circus rather than the kids eating popcorn and acting out.

OEC

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Very insightful.