Is it really goth?

I'm bothered. I love gothic culture (style,music,fashion etc) To me it is beautiful. I also love gothic people, they are among the most caring understanding people I have ever encountered. Mostly I think it's because we all share a commomn bond, misunderstamding. Yet for every cool person I meet, I meet five more who think they're gothic because they like black, or because they woke up one day and decided to be evil. Granted these are mostly younger people most of the time but it bothers me. I happen to believe that goth has nothing to do with wardrobe or "ooh look how scary I am." It's a statement on what you feel on the inside. People already think that if you are goth you're automatically a satanist and I think these people just fuel that belief. I hate stereotypes. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Personally I think people need to think back a few years to when they technically 'started out.'
Its not like we all popped out of the womb with 'vampire fangs' and 'capes' and perfect eyeliner and perfectly understood exactly what it is that makes goth 'culture.'

Personally I don't pay attention to what the 'poser kids' are doing.
It's rather superficial bitching and moaning about what it is to be a 'true goth' and it gets you no where.

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Originally Posted by Jasperino

I meet five more who think they're gothic because they like black, or because they woke up one day and decided to be evil. Granted these are mostly younger people most of the time but it bothers me. I happen to believe that goth has nothing to do with wardrobe or "ooh look how scary I am."

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Man, I've been thinking along the same lines too. It makes me cringe with pity & disgust when someone tries to cram themselves into what they think is "requirement" to be in a certain subculture. Some people should be less concerned with trying to out-goth, out-dress, out-music (or out-whatever) someone else and instead spend their energy doing something that they are truly interested in. Goth is more of an internal, somewhat fuzzy-edged, non-strict theme to me than an obsessively outlined, checkmarked list of who/what you should be/do.

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Originally Posted by gonesavage

Man, I've been thinking along the same lines too. It makes me cringe with pity & disgust when someone tries to cram themselves into what they think is "requirement" to be in a certain subculture.

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It's a bit of a double edged sword really. People who feel they don't fit in flock to one of the various sub cultures only to find it has the same amount of bullshit. Unsaid rules, certain fashion, assorted politics...really it's not that they want to fullfill the requirements but most often than not they are told to or "You're not part of the scene".

I've never really seen the appeal of subcultures since they are all the same really. The only big diffrences are either the music, fashion, and worldview...but even those are minor. As a teen it's easy to fall into a one tracked train of thought but as you get older to can't afford to be. So you can be as "Hardcore" into a scene as you want but you will still find yourself with a growing interest in things not associated with it. As a result at some point everyone sorta mixes together into the same "group" as it where.

Personally I never manage to fit into any of them so I don't pay em much mind. The complaints and hypocrisies each subculture has about one another and the "Mainstream" are just too similar to stomach.

Plus really...these days does mainstream culture even exist anymore with everyone self segregating themselves at such early ages now? Look at the "goth" scene as it where...you have friggin grage school kids shopping at stuff like Hot Topic now...and that place is now more than ever catering to the under 15 crowd.

The whole Goth thing started in earnest in the 1970s, so unless you're pushing 50, you don't get to call anyone a newbie.

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Originally Posted by Will Judy

The whole Goth thing started in earnest in the 1970s, so unless you're pushing 50, you don't get to call anyone a newbie.

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Damn :)
I'm only pushin' thirty
Thanks for the feedback everyone

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

Personally I never manage to fit into any of them so I don't pay em much mind. The complaints and hypocrisies each subculture has about one another and the "Mainstream" are just too similar to stomach.

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Me either, and now I'm more prone to say "fuck you, goodbye" if people are inclusive. IMHO, it's a stupid, trite social game, and my energy is better spent elsewhere. In my idealized, fantasy world people would drop the requirements on both ends and be interested to see what a new/old soul would have to offer. But in reality, I just don't associate with those "you vs. me" folks. Maybe it's a lifetime of learning that trying to fit in only gives you heartache, and that maybe fitting in shouldn't be as much of a priority as cultivating your own set of interests and gaining confidence to stand on your own.

Anyway, I'm also speeding towards 30, and I think I'm showing it. ;)

That whole what is goth ....to me its like the chicken and the egg, what came first. who is ever going to know? I agree with those who say its something inside. I was just born feeling different, liking a darker side of life. Thats just me though. It doesnt really matter. To each his own.

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I was just born feeling different, liking a darker side of life.

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I've never understood exactly WHY people associate 'goth' with a DARKER lifestyle. I don't feel any different. Maybe I'm just one of those 'poser' kids you all complain about.

Personally I think Tequilla hit the nail on the head when he said;

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It's a bit of a double edged sword really. People who feel they don't fit in flock to one of the various sub cultures only to find it has the same amount of bullshit. Unsaid rules, certain fashion, assorted politics...really it's not that they want to fullfill the requirements but most often than not they are told to or "You're not part of the scene".

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It's like the 'punks' whining that 'punk is NOT a fashion, It's a state of mind/way of life.' And than hanging out with people who all dress the same. All the while completely ignoring the fact the punk 'look' as we know it was though up by a FASHION DESIGNER named Vivian Westwood? I could be wrong..

ironically - if you trace back the word- past 'Gothic architecture'- which gave the genre it's name..
Goth meant 'good people' referring to those Germanic tribes..Visigoths were 'Good People of The West'- Ostrogoths 'Good People of The East'
My college history days coming back..Pedar

I think what you are referring to is what we once called "Mall Goths". The "I'm so misunderstood so I must be a great artist." kids. To put it bluntly, these kids make me sick. They are right up there with the kids who started wearing black nailpolish the week Marilyn Manson came to town, cause they thought it made them look cool and rebelious, and are the same kids who were wearing Garth Brooks t-shirts a month later. In my mind a "True" Goth is some one who is incredibly practical, Liberal (or what ever), Intelligent, reads esoteric books (or reads becasue they *gasp* enjoy it.) and stays up all night watching "cult" films, (ie. Sinthia, Mondo Bizzaro, Dawn of the Dead) but also outlandishly vain, to the point of ridiculousness. Not the lil' eight yearolds cruising Hot Topic with their grandmother 'cause they want to be just like Avirl *Insert gag here* . What I want to know is when did being "goth" get to be a popular thing? Back *eep* 10 years ago when I was in school and everything, the 5 of us were persecuted to no end. I still have issues with lockers big enough to put a relativly petite person in. Cat calls of "freak" and other such names echo forever in my perfect ears. We were different because we chose to be and like people with their Tommy and their Calvin labels, we designated ourselves in black. It always matched, you could get dressed in the dark and no one would notice and it didn't show stains.
We ahd pretty much the same mind set, that the zombies running around consuming whatever was put infront of them were doomed to be forgotten when their time was up, just like the many things they consumed. Way back when we bought our fishnet shirts and Fredrick's of Hollywood i nthe form of stockings and ripped our selves shirts (at $3 a pop), not spending $19 on a ready made one, (those just don't fit right any way). I am eternally confused by this trend and outraged, in a quite way.
On a side note, any one ever rent the movie "Goth" from Brain Damged films? It's a laugh a minute.
K

hey yall remember those my son/daughter dreses like a freak make over shows they used to have seems to me most of those kids were trying to hard are they them "goths" ur al talkin about

I am almost pushing 40 and let me tell you the one thing I have learned, take time to let yourself get to know someone. You can go around trying to place people in groups but the bottom line is, there will always be an exception to the rule. Personally, I mind my own business. If someone wants to be seen as "gothic", that's their choice.. knock yourself out. I will come at you, the same way you come at me, that's all there is to it. If we were all the same, life would get pretty tedious. I rarely go to clubs,though I do go to bookstores and I see people in their different/unique fashions and what not, I think it's refreshing actually. I just want to be who I am, and If people get it, they do, if they don't, it's for the best they don't bother with me.