Xbox 360

From Forbes, "Goldman noted that the console could be sold at a retail price that is more than it had expected. 'With the worldwide availability in the December quarter, likely strong initial demand, and the added cost of the hard drive [estimated at $30], we might see a higher initial price.' Meanwhile, there is speculation that the Xbox 360 could be compatible with the iPod from Apple Computer."

okie..now just last month bill gates said that the ipod's success wont last for much longer.. and of course they are rivals in the music mp3 business...either I don't see their stragetic point here in saying they wont last and then making it compatible with the next xbox..or maybe old bill finally figured that he will take some of that chump change. any ideas on this?

well , ol bills a pretty wise old geek so I'm sure he's got some sort of angle on all this , maybe the Xpod

Given the lackluster showing at E3, no games that were even worth mentioning as launch titles...it's pretty underwhelming. Hopefully in the next 6 months something of interest shows up...because the $300 + they are going to be asking so far seems far from worthwhile...XBL has zero aspects that make me want to sign up to this day. Listening to grown men and boys call each other fags all day in just about every game is not my idea of fun.

As far as music goes...they just don't get it...it's not about having an all in one system or even a rival...it's about having something that WORKS and WORKS WELL...the iPod is simple, sleek, and easy to use. It's rivals still have issues with compatibility, marketing, and innovation. Why buy a competing "iPod Killer" when it looks ugly, offers nothing over it, and has ties with the most abysmal music services out there?

If MS manages to make a great ipod like device then more power to them...but they should put focus on something better...like fixing all the fucking problems with every OS they launch.

It was a pretty lame E3 all around though so I can't lay all the blame on them. However they REALLY need to show off something wild and amazing before launch or frankly...their will be few who bother with buying it at launch...

Until Halo 3 is ready to hit shelves MS will have one hell of a hard time given the buzz the PS3 is getting...and no one is even sure how much is prerendered and how much is real time.

I like the Xbox 360, I don't care what PS3 has over it, I like it. Sure the PS3 is probably better, but I like the way Xbox 360 looks.

And I'm pretty excited for Nintendo's new machine, the Revolution.

I enjoy XBL, although I only get to play every once in a while. Some games shine when played live. I like Halo2 way better live, as compared to the stand alone story mode or whatever. I'm still getting the hang of UC2, so I haven't ventured out onto XBL with it just yet, but near as I can tell the game kinda kicks my poor XboX in the gut. It locks up a lot and the movies kinda skip and it's generally kinda flakey on performance. So, a stronger system would make the play more enjoyable. I am with you TZ, I think the trend to try to duct tape every sort of consumer electronic device together, looking for the right combo to spur market sales, is getting pretty lame. Everything does something it isn't great at. Phones take pictures, cameras take video, my PC works as a Tivo, but I rarely use whatever secondary function is attached. Then along comes some devices that really merge media and provide a seamless integration. That is rare.

My feeling about trade shows, such as E3, is that they kinda need to choose a new goal. They should be more like consumer shows and less like trade shows. There are fewer and fewer retail outlets for things such as electronic gaming products. There are only so many stores left, since most have been taken over by a handful of chains, and most people just order stuff online anyway. Trade shows used to be about impressing the buyers and the press. Now, there are very few wholesale buyers and don't get me started on how fake the press is on that stuff these days. So, I think the goal must become impressing the public with a hands on experience. E3 kinda does that, but none of the shows really embrace that goal to it's fullest extent just yet.

Indeed some games do shine on XBL...Halo 2 being a great example. That game was clearler designed for XBL from the ground up. If all games take that strong approach with their multiplayer then it could really push for the numbers HS wants for XBL. Most use XBL specifically for Halo 2...not much else. That's the problem. I'll admit I am very use to PC Multiplayer...no fees...more people...more variety...etc. So paying a fee for a service that's smaller then that is plain odd to me. But I understand it enough not to dismiss it or see its value. I just hope MS does not get fee happy as it's already thinking of charging for services that have been free on the PC for years like user created content.

E3 really does need to go public...this years coverage proves it. So much of it feels clouded and full of personal gripes and rants I really don't see the point in it being press and industry only anymore. If it gets retooled it could skip the middlemen and go straight to the heart that keeps gaming alive...the consumer. Make it like SXSW...you buy event tickets and what not. It already has the look and feel of a commerical anyhow...may as well go full on with it. At least this way you could get people more excited about MORE games as opposed to the ones with the biggest advertising budgets.

That's what has killed many great games...NOT being able to get in touch with the public. It's not as though E3 would be flooded with kids and families anyhow...it'd be filled with gamers of all types...and with the average age being 29...you could imagine how picky they would be and how easily appeased. So really the Industry would gain since instead of pitching to the media about it's projects it'd pitch to those who actually PAY for games.

They should look at the LA auto show as a prime example of where it needs to head...that would be so much more interesting and probably benefit developers as they would at least get input from ACTUAL gamers...not jaded gaming "journalists." Plus the gaming industry has to at least admit that the LA Auto Show manages to drum up insane amounts of attention amoung consumers without so much as letting them get a test drive...that's pretty amazing given the product.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

E3 really does need to go public...

---

I totally agree with your points as well. I remember when E3 was a subsection of CES and it was kinda more public just by virtue of being part of such a giant show. I've gone to one or two since they broke it off into it's own convention and it just didn't seem to fully gel. There really isn't much in the way of middlemen in today's marketplace. Sure, impress the EBGames buyer and whatnot, but any big game company is going to send them on promo junkets anyway. There are very very few Mom and Pop games outlets and the numbers are going down fast. There are VERY few actual journalists in the gaming industry. Most have been replaced with PR company staff members pretending to be writers. Honestly, I also think the journalists that still are around, well, they might be more impressed if they saw real consumers having a good time playing a game. The comic convention in San Diego is very commercial and seems to do very well. They could also simply have a trade only day like some shows do.

It's sad to see so many smaller game shops fall aways...I was a huge supporter of them for quite a few console generations now. They just can't compete with online prices or the bigger game shops like EBgames and Gamestop. Game mags and sites slowly feel more like commercial pipelines than much else (IGN being the more visible example) and it's a real shame since many still listen to these sites. The San Diego comic con is a good example to follow...it mixes in heavy consumer trade while getting them to check out products coming down the pipe...all with continued good standing.

Gaming does not quite have that yet...even with the ability to get people free demo's, movies, and hands on impressions...it's just not as personal as a convention setting sets...or as fun. It's amusing to pass time BSing about games on a forum but it's much more intense and interesting to talk about games at a convention...especially if the convention is as wildly loved as E3. It's practicly mythical amoung gamers. Some game franchises have taken bold steps to mix both like Quake Con...a massive yearly event/tournament for all things Quake/iD related. Another is Evolution...THE tournament for fighting games that not only has the most intense WORLDWIDE competition but is often the place where fighting games rise or die amoung gamers of pro to casual skill. Namco debuted Tekken 5 at the last one...hopefully more debuts follow.

It's clear the consumers want E3 to follow similar paths and given the fact consumers are getting older it may be in their best interest to do so in order to make sure another 1980's bust never occurs again.

Plus like you said...journalists would probably get a better kick out of it and really developers would too...seeing actual customers decide on what they like is much more productive...plus it'd be interesting how customers react to the BS filled confrences that can occur...plus they tend to ask harder (and at times the dumbest) questions.

If E3 was public this whole debate of what was real time and what was CG would have been over 5min after it was raised.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

Game mags and sites slowly feel more like commercial pipelines than much else (IGN being the more visible example) and it's a real shame since many still listen to these sites.

---

could you explain your opinion about IGN. I often use it as a reference point....is there something i'm missing...

As for the magazines....they are PR all the way....Nintendo magazines have always been a joke especially.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VoldtaEngler

okie..now just last month bill gates said that the ipod's success wont last for much longer.. and of course they are rivals in the music mp3 business...either I don't see their stragetic point here in saying they wont last and then making it compatible with the next xbox..or maybe old bill finally figured that he will take some of that chump change. any ideas on this?

---

I think this is pretty consistent with M$'s "extend and extinguish" strategy. M$ is making as broad a bet as possible, and compatibility is also a positive since Apple doesn't have its own console, why not make Xbox the console of choice for everybody with an iPod?

Considering that Xbox is essentially a PowerPC system... the extensions into that space is pretty likely. Imagine an Xbox that can not only emulate x86, but also something that can run OSX. That's a truly horrifying though! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nightmare Pin

could you explain your opinion about IGN. I often use it as a reference point....is there something i'm missing...

As for the magazines....they are PR all the way....Nintendo magazines have always been a joke especially.

---

IGN back in say 99 - maybe early 2001 was a much diffrent site. I began reading it when the layout was black and orange and in those days they had pretty honest reviews and excellent gaming articles (one of the classics was one about game piracy in Hong Kong). When they essentially exploded into the massive media entertainment site they are now you began to see theirt reviews lose some of their honesty and became clear examples of being bought by companies to give favorable reviews. This last for quite a while...they nearly always gave GOOD reviews to mediocre and awful games. In the last half year they have toned it down a bit and are not as blatent about it returning to more multi-page reviews that go in depth about what they want to say. IGN has a good DVD site and other media sites but their gaming sites lost a lot of credibility when they grew.

I don;t fully trust them myself at this point but of all the major gaming sites I prefer gamespot...they are far mor consistent and game focused.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by johnny

I think this is pretty consistent with M$'s "extend and extinguish" strategy. M$ is making as broad a bet as possible, and compatibility is also a positive since Apple doesn't have its own console, why not make Xbox the console of choice for everybody with an iPod?

Considering that Xbox is essentially a PowerPC system... the extensions into that space is pretty likely. Imagine an Xbox that can not only emulate x86, but also something that can run OSX. That's a truly horrifying though! :)

---

It's not that easy. There are plenty of PowerPC-based systems in the world (IBM's been making them for a while in the AIX universe), but they don't run OS X. And the iTunes/iPod combo runs fine on Windows, so it's not necessarily tied to the PPC architecture.

Here are the problems with Microsoft just moving into that zone:

1) Apple would have to license the Fairplay DRM system to Microsoft for the Xbox 360 to support iTunes Music Store-purchased music.
2) Apple would have to port iTunes to the Xbox 360. MS could make an app that supports transferring non-encrypted files to the iPod (plenty of other folks have), but it's very unlikely it would have the same level of integration and ease-of-use that Apple is known for.
3) Pride. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are competitive as fuck. Bill would have to swallow his pride and accept Apple as the dominant player in online music. Steve Jobs would have to play ball and help Bill control the living room. History indicates that neither are likely to do this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VoldtaEngler

From Forbes, "Goldman noted that the console could be sold at a retail price that is more than it had expected. 'With the worldwide availability in the December quarter, likely strong initial demand, and the added cost of the hard drive [estimated at $30], we might see a higher initial price.' Meanwhile, there is speculation that the Xbox 360 could be compatible with the iPod from Apple Computer."

---

MS has stated that the 360 will allow you to connect a number of different portable digital music players, including the iPod, but it's unlikely that Apple would license their DRM technology to MS -- or that MS would even ask for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by funkatron

MS has stated that the 360 will allow you to connect a number of different portable digital music players, including the iPod, but it's unlikely that Apple would license their DRM technology to MS -- or that MS would even ask for it.

---

This is true..to an extent..everybody wants to make that extra buck so if one company is doing great they want to be guilty by association also..likewise if two companys are powerhouses and they merge in a sense then thats money in the bank... but why bash something then say you want it with your product? i think thats what i dont understand really. And as far as running different OS's , with the new technology they are having with the detachable harddrives i wouldnt be surprised if it was in the near future to run diffrent OS's with the a simple harddrive swith...look at how the Xbox 360 turns on this time...you can sit on the couch and pick up the controller and hit the center button and voila! the xbox is on...damn couch potatoes! lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

IGN back in say 99 - maybe early 2001 was a much diffrent site. I began reading it when the layout was black and orange and in those days they had pretty honest reviews and excellent gaming articles (one of the classics was one about game piracy in Hong Kong). When they essentially exploded into the massive media entertainment site they are now you began to see theirt reviews lose some of their honesty and became clear examples of being bought by companies to give favorable reviews. This last for quite a while...they nearly always gave GOOD reviews to mediocre and awful games. In the last half year they have toned it down a bit and are not as blatent about it returning to more multi-page reviews that go in depth about what they want to say. IGN has a good DVD site and other media sites but their gaming sites lost a lot of credibility when they grew.

I don;t fully trust them myself at this point but of all the major gaming sites I prefer gamespot...they are far mor consistent and game focused.

---

i just really hate the really large new ads they have which move onto the screen in front of all the writting and you have to wait for them to disappear..