Solutions for Air Security?

Clearly having lines that go out the terminal doors, coupled with the huge number of missed flights and generally pissy disposition of travellers these days simply isn't working. I wanted to see if folks here had any solutions they feel might work better.

I honestly feel that airport security has a lot more to do with the war on drugs than the war on terror, otherwise they would be a lot more likely to hire air marshals, equipped with taser guns, instead of unpacking and repacking and xraying and sniffing and stripping and wanding and metal detecting all the people and bags trying to get some where, while leaving them unprotected once they are in the air.

Any thoughts or solutions? Travel is good for our country. I used to enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

Clearly having lines that go out the terminal doors, coupled with the huge number of missed flights and generally pissy disposition of travellers these days simply isn't working.

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isnt working for airline security or isnt working for your level of patience and tolerance?

not trying to be a dick, but the best way to judge the success of these measures is probably by looking at how many post 9/11 terrorist incidents there have been involving airlines..... and there really havent been any major ones.

i do agree it's a hassle and as more time comes between americans and the last terrorist attack, the less tolerance we have for these time-consuming, intrusive policies. the scary thing is how many reports and articles you can find that outline just how un-safe our airlines still are.

personally, my idea would be to not allow anyone to carry anything on the plane, and just load up the personal headset entertainment units with vast libraries of books, music, barely evil porn, children's educational material, etc.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

I honestly feel that airport security has a lot more to do with the war on drugs than the war on terror, otherwise they would be a lot more likely to hire air marshals, equipped with taser guns, instead of unpacking and repacking and xraying and sniffing and stripping and wanding and metal detecting all the people and bags trying to get some where, while leaving them unprotected once they are in the air.

Any thoughts or solutions? Travel is good for our country. I used to enjoy it.

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Well I really think you nailed it on this one. I don't think that there are any real solutions, simply because "We the People" don't and never will truely know the real reasons for the situation. They say what they are doing is for our security, but it's more likely to suit their own hidden agendas. One thing is for sure, travel will never be the same.

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Originally Posted by drewblood

isnt working for airline security or isnt working for your level of patience and tolerance?

not trying to be a dick, but the best way to judge the success of these measures is probably by looking at how many post 9/11 terrorist incidents there have been involving airlines..... and there really havent been any major ones.

i do agree it's a hassle and as more time comes between americans and the last terrorist attack, the less tolerance we have for these time-consuming, intrusive policies. the scary thing is how many reports and articles you can find that outline just how un-safe our airlines still are.

personally, my idea would be to not allow anyone to carry anything on the plane, and just load up the personal headset entertainment units with vast libraries of books, music, barely evil *erotic art*, children's educational material, etc.

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Well, as a travel consumer, no, it isnt working for my level of patience and tolerance, or very many other people's. I certainly would like to see some stats on the decline of certain sorts of airline incidents. The increase in air-rage vs. decrease in hijackings, etc. Maybe airlines with air marshals vs. airlines with two hours of customs style bag checking... I honestly feel that terrorism isn't that big a deal. The more we react to it, the stronger the tool is. A body that overreacts to infection is not healthier than a body that reacts appropriately to the real problem.

Air cops make sense. Cops on the streets in bad parts of town are more effective than random roadblocks with extensive searches for anyone driving in or out of those areas with no real protection for the people once they are in.

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Originally Posted by drewblood

isnt working for airline security or isnt working for your level of patience and tolerance?

not trying to be a dick, but the best way to judge the success of these measures is probably by looking at how many post 9/11 terrorist incidents there have been involving airlines..... and there really havent been any major ones.

i do agree it's a hassle and as more time comes between americans and the last terrorist attack, the less tolerance we have for these time-consuming, intrusive policies. the scary thing is how many reports and articles you can find that outline just how un-safe our airlines still are.

personally, my idea would be to not allow anyone to carry anything on the plane, and just load up the personal headset entertainment units with vast libraries of books, music, barely evil porn, children's educational material, etc.

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How many pre 9/11 terrorist incidents have there been involving airlines?

It is bad for our economy to have people travel less.

If we give up our freedoms and American way of life, then the terrorists win.

from Benjamin Franklin

"He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither liberty nor security"

fortunately i hate travel

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

Well, as a travel consumer, no, it isnt working for my level of patience and tolerance, or very many other people's. I certainly would like to see some stats on the decline of certain sorts of airline incidents. The increase in air-rage vs. decrease in hijackings, etc. Maybe airlines with air marshals vs. airlines with two hours of customs style bag checking... I honestly feel that terrorism isn't that big a deal. The more we react to it, the stronger the tool is. A body that overreacts to infection is not healthier than a body that reacts appropriately to the real problem.

Air cops make sense. Cops on the streets in bad parts of town are more effective than random roadblocks with extensive searches for anyone driving in or out of those areas with no real protection for the people once they are in.

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The only stat i was really looking at is that no more airliners have been used to knock down anymore big buildings... obviously not a very thorough picture of how successful excessive bag-checking / air-marshalls have been, but still a point to be made. I like what you say in terms of reacting to terrorism and airline security in a smart and balanced way. I just think that when you get on such a large scale, it's more difficult to use that scalpel approach opposed to a broadsword. The airlines have to balance between pissing off a percentage of customers to maintain an overall perception that the airlines are safer. It seems like a tough position to be in, especially when the spectum of customers range from "I honestly feel that terrorism isn't that big a deal" to "sure, take my freedoms away if it means we're safer". Is air-rage really a big issue? I guess you mean passengers and not pilots....I just got a vision of 747's trying to cut eachother off on an approach to land. Do you have any good air-rage temper tantrum stories? I think A&E was doing a show on that awhile back.


*edit.... oh ya, sorry about the 'porn' comment... i always forget :maxgne:

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Originally Posted by drewblood

The only stat i was really looking at is that no more airliners have been used to knock down anymore big buildings... obviously not a very thorough picture of how successful excessive bag-checking / air-marshalls have been, but still a point to be made. I like what you say in terms of reacting to terrorism and airline security in a smart and balanced way. I just think that when you get on such a large scale, it's more difficult to use that scalpel approach opposed to a broadsword. The airlines have to balance between pissing off a percentage of customers to maintain an overall perception that the airlines are safer. It seems like a tough position to be in, especially when the spectum of customers range from "I honestly feel that terrorism isn't that big a deal" to "sure, take my freedoms away if it means we're safer". Is air-rage really a big issue? I guess you mean passengers and not pilots....I just got a vision of 747's trying to cut eachother off on an approach to land. Do you have any good air-rage temper tantrum stories? I think A&E was doing a show on that awhile back.


*edit.... oh ya, sorry about the 'porn' comment... i always forget :maxgne:

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9/11 didn't happen because of a sudden lapse in the otherwise stringent security measures. You could point to the record before that event just as easily as the record after it. People have been killed and beaten in the aisles though because everyone is so freaked out by the time they get up in the air (plus the decrease in the quality of oxygen provided to passengers these days.) It just seems to me that a scalpel or broadsword won't be effective if you are operating on the leg when the problem is in the head. A terrorist could just as easily choke a stewardess, but they aren't taking away our thumbs. They should provide qualified security, rather than rely on stringent searches alone, unless the agenda is more about looking for contraband and getting people scared into supporting more invasive laws to address the spooky menace they are being reminded about all the time. It just seems very communist mafia to me.

not to mention the fact that there havent been many serious terrosist related incidents involving hijacked planes in the past and people wont try that again anyways since now if someone tries to hijack a plane theyd get thier asses handed to them by the other passengers. The govenrment is wasting a lot of money for this extra "security" that just scares the living shit out of people and helps the terrorists in accomplishing thier agenda im sure everyone feels real safe when the airport PA system is blaring "the goevernment has put the country on orange alert or whatever its total bullshit this is how the government really starts to push people around and subjegate them to whatver they want.

right, of course as soon as the next terrorist attack comes it'll be "you didnt do enough, you didnt spend enough, you didnt warn us enough... we'll sue you all into bankruptcy" ... yadda yadda yadda.

I think the powers that be are more worried about airliners being used as bombs agin, rather than the actuall safey of passengers aboard. There were, what, 20 years or so where we had hijackings of planes by terrorists where only the passengers aboard were at risk? It didn't seem to put to big a dent in the number of people traving by air, and the security screenings we not ramped up drasticly in responce. Maybe they should just permanently remove access between the pasenger cabin and the cockpit, expand the cockpit/flight deck so the flight crew has a bathroom and give them an external door to enter and exit the plane. The only reasons I can think of why the pilots go into the passenger cabin in flight is to used the bathroom, and for the captain to deal with passangers that are acting up. Just give the flight attendents the authority to deal with the pasengers (legaly). No access to the cockpit from onboard means no one can physicaly take control of the plane from the pilots, and I doubt an airline pilot will crash the plane into a building killing 100's or 1000's in addition to all on board. Then the terrorists are back to diverting planes and holding the passengers hostage. Back to the old staus quo.

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Originally Posted by drewblood

right, of course as soon as the next terrorist attack comes it'll be "you didnt do enough, you didnt spend enough, you didnt warn us enough... we'll sue you all into bankruptcy" ... yadda yadda yadda.

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when (and if) the next major terrorist attack comes people probably will say that i sure as hell wont although i believe the government isnt doing what they need to do to fight terrorism they think throwing money at it solves the whole problem (it really doesnt) and that scaring america shitless with warnings and intimidating them with laws and jacked up security is giong to help. Its nothing but a waste of time effort and money and its making the country worse. ever notice how before when there was a terrorist attack (like the oklahoma city bombing) they didnt jack up truck rental security for that and they didnt make it much harder for people to buy nitrate fertilizer there was no terrorist warning system then people dealt with it realzed that those things dont happen so often and went about their day to day lives now they act like a new 9/11 is expected to happen on a weekly basis its all a bunch of sensationalist crap thats been used as an excuse to drag us into two foreign wars (only one of which was somewhat justified) and dragging the country down fast

I think we need to just build planes in the style of the wright brothers- out of wood and fabric, that way if they crash into buildings, it won't cause any damage.

interesting...and VERY retro. Not sure I want to do a trans-atlantic flight in one though. :D

my zippo got confiscated by Airport Security in Kansas City. Because of new laws I lost a fucking Christmas present. Luckily it's a newer model and still in Zippo's online catalog. So I bought another one, I didn't know about the new carrying cases and that you could keep empty ones in your checked luggage, now I know and knowing's half the battle. I also wear sandals so that it's no problem taking my shoes off. But if we had the same security that most other countries had in airports, it'd be less of a hassle.

I gotta agree with the notion that airport security seems more stuck on drugs than terrorists...the near prison like level it gets to by some CLEARLY unqualified people is not making me feel all that much safer on a plane these days. Hell I think a carton of cigs to the right "inspectors" could get any bag ignored.

Security needs to be taken OUT of the hands of airlines and integrated into the industry on a federal level. Have trained people and tools develop that can WORK in a modern enviornment not these smaller updates and cheap training of grossly out of date security measures.

You can't sell me or anyone else on the newsbite that security means some drop out in a blazer with a metal detector. When you can't keep plane schedules cause they are busy checking some guys boots...something is wrong with the system.

They should seriously try to bring about a system made famous in Total Recall where you are scanned AS you travel toward the gate to your flight...it makes more sense to have a security system that is LESS evasive and LESS pronounced so that terrorists will think twice and three times in circumventing a system they know nothing about...keep it evolving and ever changing.

I don't mind big brother tactics in public travel areas...I honestly don't...but if we need such hardline security...do it smart and keep it in the KEY areas needed for it to work...everything has a bottleneck at somepoint and that can be exploited for security and improvement.

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

I gotta agree with the notion that airport security seems more stuck on drugs than terrorists...the near prison like level it gets to by some CLEARLY unqualified people is not making me feel all that much safer on a plane these days. Hell I think a carton of cigs to the right "inspectors" could get any bag ignored.

Security needs to be taken OUT of the hands of airlines and integrated into the industry on a federal level. Have trained people and tools develop that can WORK in a modern enviornment not these smaller updates and cheap training of grossly out of date security measures.

You can't sell me or anyone else on the newsbite that security means some drop out in a blazer with a metal detector. When you can't keep plane schedules cause they are busy checking some guys boots...something is wrong with the system.

They should seriously try to bring about a system made famous in Total Recall where you are scanned AS you travel toward the gate to your flight...it makes more sense to have a security system that is LESS evasive and LESS pronounced so that terrorists will think twice and three times in circumventing a system they know nothing about...keep it evolving and ever changing.

I don't mind big brother tactics in public travel areas...I honestly don't...but if we need such hardline security...do it smart and keep it in the KEY areas needed for it to work...everything has a bottleneck at somepoint and that can be exploited for security and improvement.

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you have a good idea.

i hate having some functional idiot putting his hands all over my belongings and telling me it is for my own good.

You wanna solve airline security. First, seperate the pilots from the passangers. There is really no good reason for them to have access. Second, allow gambling in all major airports. In a casino I am constantly observed, discretely and profesionally. No one waves wands at me, no one makes me take off my shoes, no one pats me down or strip searches me, and casinos still don't have trouble airports do.

My only solution has been to travel red eye or at night. I hav no idea how I've managed to evade searches, I guess I'm just too obvious to be an actual terrorist :) Seriously tho, I'd probably go with the reinforced cockpit doors. I could have walked in and said peak-a-boo on my most recent trip.

OEC