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chech this video of an interwiew with him...
he's is about the most slackjawed mayor i've seen,but he's got some balls,he's a man you probally got nothing left,so hes just selling it how it is...
he 's also saying a TON of stuff there feeding us is not happining..
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nag...ipt/index.html
the video is MUCH better,it's in the first paragraph...
K.K.
by the way,he is my new hero,politically...
just saw Bush in the ground hugging victims(supposedly)....
if he hugged me,i'd stab him.....i'd take the bullet for it...
now watch the DEA pick me up just for saying that...
Why? The guy is part of the problem that lead to this mess to begin with...all that interview reads like is a man trying to save his political career by trying to come off like he gives a damn. It's his responisbility as much as the federal government to take care of the city...not just pass the buck.Quote:
Originally Posted by killerkat
He's just another prick who will say "it wasn't my fault..." when things settle down and investigations are made.
what can he do?
hug someone?
He's the goddamn Mayor dude...if he can't handle the job then he should hand it over to some who can. You step up and do whatever is in your political and official power to do so...not like I said...pass the buck. Seems that's what he's quite good at. It's not like he's the mayor of small out of the way town with little in way of funding or attention....it's a major city and hey maybe he should be aware just WTF is going on instead of what it sounds like is waiting around going "I dunno what to do"...Quote:
Originally Posted by killerkat
Then again this is the city that was almost put under federal policing a few times in the past due to it's rampant corruption. It's safe to say not too much has changed and those in charge are obviously their due to great BS campeigns. Situations like this are when leaders should lead...not complain...that's what the citizens get to do. He has to figure out how to help them and the city under his watch.
The fucker clearly is incapable of that.
but i just don't see what he could actually do.....
he can't give the call for troops,can't give the ok for aid...nothing....
he can be a good guy,and tryt o bring up moral? is that it?
A leadership should never complain in front of those they lead and are in charge of protecting. Not because it's in bad taste but due to the fact it adds to the anxiety and desperation the people already have. In this case HE should be the voice of strength, order, and hope...you NEVER say " I don't know what else to do" or anything similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by killerkat
That's not how you lead and that can cause more problems because those who will take advantage of weak leadership will do so...and clearly have. THAT is why I don't see him as anything great or good. He's a prime example of a man in a position he's not qualified for or understands fully. It's sad that he doesn't see how HIS words and actions can lead to the loss of faith and deaths of people who put him in power.
ok...i understand that,but im looking for a little "simpler" answer...
what can he ACTUALLY do?,beyond being a moral character....
he can be a "beacon of hope" and all that,but can he bring these people physical needs/help?
*Standing ovation* Dude's got my vote for pres in '08. Now would some one please get the fuck out there and DO SOMETHING!? He said it all, WE NEED HELP. You want a sacrafice? These people have given everything and then some. You want blood? They're bleeding out their goddamned eyeballs. I think by the laws of alchemy they're due for the biggest fucking miracle you've got. If this douche is your pres, god (or whatever), MAKE HIM DO SOMEHTING CONSTRUCTIVE!
thank you for listening,
K
welcome back Miss.K!....
and yea....he i'd rather him be Human,than another polital jargon using peice of lying trash...
So he's not supposed to be human? He's not allowed to panic in the midst of complete meltdown? He's not allowed to cry in the face of death? He's begging for the people who pull the strings to do something other than go on fucking vacation and you chastise him for showing emotion and admiting that he's done all he can considering that, despite being the Mayor, he's only one man?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
Wow,
K
All right I'll make it as simple as I can. They guy made 2 key mistakes. He's feeding the politicizing of this disaster that not only takes attention away from what is needed but shows that even when he's trying to be "human" as you call it...he's still a politician. 2nd he didn't take check of his house as it where...in such a situation you work with what you have in ways that make EFFECTIVE sense not political ones. Take the situation with the french quarter. It's N.O.'s major tourist area so it's no shock that it's protected and thankfully nearly all intact outside of expected damage. You can't get into loot if you wanted to without a bullet slamming into you. That's what was needed in key areas of the city...you don't spread out your manpower when it's clear most of it effected by the disaster as well. You let fall what can and you put order in places that can do the most harm...in this case the superdome...Quote:
Originally Posted by killerkat
That was not done. Instead it was like watching a chicken run around without a head...the manpower they had was simply not properly placed in the strategic areas of the city where the dense population of people were being put into.
You protect the inferstructure for sure but you don't allow waht occured in the superdome to happen. That is his responsibility...the entire planning, execution, and structure of how his assets where used had to go through him...instead of retooling such plans he simply waited to be bailed out. That is not how you lead such a situation...this is not how you handle yourself in that position...
Let the people have their desperation but don't try to hide in it or lay focus off your mistakes on to hose of others. Their is a heiarchy that works when you're the mayor of a major city...and in his most trying test...
he failed with flying colors.
But hey he gave people what they wanted to hear in a nice sounbite and interview that is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors...the last gasp if you will.
But hey...D.C. re-elected a crackhead so he does have a chance.
Nope. When you're put in that position you lost the right to fall apart in public...do so in private but in public you better god damn show that you have a plan and how to lead those who are suffering way more than he into safety and security.Quote:
Originally Posted by keiko
Begging the peopel who pull the strings? He's a puppetmaster himself...and it's clear he like other political leaders being critiqued have no clue what they are doing.
All you said could apply to the same critiques being leveled against the president at this moment. The reality is that when you are IN POWER in any form you don't freak the fuck out...you do your job and you provide the people who are relying on you with whatever they don't have....in this case....at least some fucking hope.
o know this is off topic,but care to explain why Russia's offer was declined...
why Chavez offered a bunch,...(accepted?...i'd bet not)
why Castro is offering a TON of suff....(accepted?...i'd bet not)
why are we turning down aid?...
and i thought this was interesting:
Quote:
trick said:
At least he's stepping up to the fucking plate. You know something else that smells funny is that the two governors of Mississippi and Albama are republicans and they're saying everything is going fine, while, Nagin is the one that isn't taking any shit. This is beyond politics. If you want to save lives then save them but, Bush doesn't give a shit. These are poor black people in New Orleans. 67% of New Orleans is black. He doesn't care for these people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
I guess we just have to agree to disagree here, cause I'll never be able to see it your way. I understand that in many situations it's not okay to lose your cool as a political leader, but at this point in this crisis, I can't see it.
K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
Oh fuck that. Those lazy sons of bitches are going to come in five days late and blame it on the local government not filing paperwork properly? Saying it's maybe the Mayors fault becasue he's black, as I saw them doing on CNN! That's bullshit. The Mayor and the Governer called for backup days ago and didn't get it. They have been over run with death and lawlessness. He's got every right in the world to be FURIOUS. His people are doing their jobs as best they can, on the streets, in the shelters, on the riverboat fire crews. But if the state and local governernment begs and pleads and cries for days till they nearly can't speak anymore... They filed the appropriate request. Backup didn't come for them and too many people suffered and died for that failure from the National powers that are supposed to be there for this sort of thing.
If you're asking me you're looking to the wrong guy to explain that. I'm still trying to get an answer on why firefighters and their families where left to hold up in a building while sniper fire kept them from leaving ... situation like this were valuable assets (firefighters and EMT people) are left to rot in favor of protecting tourist spots gotta make one wonder about priority...Quote:
Originally Posted by killerkat
I expect my government to take care of infrastructure. That is what they are there for.
I am thrilled to see a politician who is willing to speak his mind, who is passionate about his people, who wants to save them. If a situation is dire, it is NOT the job of the politicians to lie to us and smooth it over. And, as a patriotic American, I am appalled that our society is at a crossroads where anyone could think that was the job of government. Don't tell me it is going to be okay, there, there, hush little baby.
Get some helicopters and busses and water and food and antibiotics and sandbags in there and get the people out and get rid of the water and fire. Fix the infrastructure.
This is not a question of rationing out our feeble resources. No strategy of spreading resources thin is needed. We just need to put the resources where they are needed by Americans, not where they are needed most, where they are needed period.
This is the USA and, if we are going to tell the rest of the world how to take care of its peoples, we should set a good example by taking care of our own.
i thought this was interesting too(sorry to make this thread kinda random)
Quote:
First off I wanted to post what REALLY is going on in this city. Please don’t get this thread locked people. The news stations are only showing a minuscule of reality. This post may offend some people but I will post what I saw, like it or not it is REALITY.
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Well last night I was watching the 6pm news when they announced the 17th street canal pumps failed as well as another break in the levee. My house is right off St. Charles Ave. and up to 6pm yesterday is was the only part of the city that was dry. Since the pumps failed and the new break St. Charles Ave. would be under 9ft of water in the next 12-15hrs. My brother and I felt if we wanted to save anything we had to leave NOW. We loaded up flashlights, rope, our medical ID’s, both our .45 Glocks, 2 shotguns and rode out. En-route we listened to the radio which broad casted all the news about the looters and what not, in hindsight it was a mistake. My mother didn’t want us to go by dad who is a Vietnam vet told to be safe and “shoot to kill” if it ever comes to that.
One the way we had to pass 5-6 checkpoints to allow entry into the city. We stated we were medical personnel who were activated, showed our ID and off we went. On the radio reports were coming in about the officer who was shot in the head, the 2 gunman who opened fired on the NOPD station, and how looters were carjacking cars to get out of the city. This started making my brother nervous and giving seconds thoughts.
Anyway we get to the city and it looks like a freaking war zone. The best visual I can give is the movie “Blackhawk Down” when all the Somalians are rushing the city. They are people EVERYWHERE, they are pissed off, and all have weapons, 2X4’s, Axes, and guns. If this wasn’t bad enough we are 2 white boys in a truck in a sea several hundred armed pissed off blacks. There wasn’t a white person to be found. I couldn’t get over the little 8-10yr old kids with weapons, I ever saw one carry a claw hammer!
These people were absolutely nuts rammed trucks(stolen I’m sure) in to jewelry stores stealing items, they were tearing apart Wal-Mart carrying out TV’s, Playstations, DVD players, etc. One lady was wheeling out an entire rack of merchandise, not sure what it was but sure wasn’t clothes for food. They were all laughing and carrying on like it’s freaking Christmas.
We got stuck in traffic when we see the group of guys walking down the street w/ AK-47’s, at that point the “pucker factor” kicked in, a couple Glocks and shotguns were no match for that. We haul azz trying to get to Uptown when we see these people chopping down the front door w/ an axe of this $4-5 million dollar mansion on ST. Charles Ave. I was just in total awe because it was so surreal. Making matters worse it’s 11pm at night there is no electricity and you really can see anything or anyone until they are right up on you.
Our plan was to be in and out in 30min, this included putting his Harley on the trailer. It would have taken me 5-10min tops to get my stuff, all I wanted was my pictures from college, my clothes/shoes, and my computer tower. Well he got scared saying we are going to get jumped while putting the bike on the trailer. Keep in mind this is the only area in the city that is dry. So just like rats who move to higher ground these people were doing the same. Word must have gotten out that Uptown was dry so there started to be a large influx of people.
Needless to say he wanted to go home rather than take our chances. While it was the smart thing to do I was beyond infuriated w/ him because we made it this far. He just kept saying our lives aren’t worth it. So we turned around, our next challenge was getting out of the city while not getting jacked. Reports came out that people were jumping in the back of truck holding the drivers at gunpoint. Traffic started to slow so I just nailed it got out as fast as I could.
Even though he was the voice of reason I’m still pissed. All I have is my life and the clothes on my back. I lost my house(which is now 9ft underwater) ALL my clothes, TV, computer, furniture, and photo albums and videos from childhood and college. What makes this worse is my brother owned the house and I was a tenant and I didn’t have renters insurance, hindsight is 20/20.
I also hope everyone of the Fucking looters get Tetanus, E-Coli and F*(KING drown. I’m serious I really hope the all die for what they were doing to the city, killing people, and destroying homes. Never in my life have I ever seen people act live savages, it was truly sicking.
His people are indeed going above and beyond what they can handle but his calls for help and aide came after the fact when he and his administration knew BEFORE THE STORM HIT that their was still a large population IN THE CITY, that their own lack of preperadness, training, and inability to deal with a potentially serious situation was not adequate. You don't go into this situation with the idea you can "handle it" and then cry foul when it blows up in their faces. It's very very clear The Mayor of New Orleans grossly underestimated not only the situation as it was unfolding but BASIC PLANNING for a disaster at any level.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
Worst Case Scenarios are always planned for...it's clear that in this case not only was that not even on the table but even in the minds of those who's responsibility it is to plan them.
He has no god damn right to be furious about a sitaution he helped let get out of hand by focusing his efforts on reacting instead of even normal levels of preparedness. The same critique falls on the Governer and her administration.
They couldn't handle this...that's clear to see...but to say this was not part of their doing and they are absolved of any and all wrong doing? Oh fuck that.
Yeah, I saw that posted on a forum earlier, pretty crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by killerkat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
No, his administration has been urgently communicating the funding and manpower needs to maintain the levee system for years and the funds have been cut severely during the Bush years. He was totally justified in being furious the moment the levee broke. His people were demoted and/or fired, due to pressure from the highest levels, for being critical of the National budget cuts to New Orleans infrastructure.
Idealy yes...but it's clear the inferstructure in Louisiana was broken well before theQuote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
I'd be thrilled to see that to. Instead I saw an angry rant that bypassed and ignored his own bad planning and inability to prepare for even a fraction of what ended up occuring. This mess is as much on his head as anybody's. When you leave an unlocked door you tend to blame the one who left it open not the guy who designed the lock.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
When did "giving hope" become the same as lies and soothing it over? I don't see how going on angry rants on national TV helps a situation already boiling over...when the people see their elected officials freaking the fuck out that's not exactly a way to restore at least SOME level of order. All it does is inflame the sitation...Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
Hate to break your heart about this guy people but take a stong look at his administration and what key areas it cut money from...areas that when the storm hit blew up in his face.
Hail him as a hero all you want though...
That's one side of the story though...his administration also allowed such cuts to occur and from what's been trickling down is simply a case of the voice saying one thing but the hands doing another. You hear administrations fight for things all the time...only to be the ones who lay the hammer down that destorys them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
heh sounds like another political"leader" i know:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
Actually, I have no idea whether Nagin is a good mayor. Perhaps a better mayor would know how to suck the right dicks to get the resources sent in to Louisiana.
But it is well-documented that those funds were cut against his wishes and against the recommendations of many expert people.
I don't think we should have had the National Guard or the Army Core of Engineers in Louisiana and Mississipi the day the storm hit. No one knew how bad it was going to be.
But I've flown from the Middle East and it doesn't take more than a day. Even with stopovers.
One day into this disaster, ALL of this should have been addressed. I'm not that worked up about the idea of what it will cost to rebuild. I think that is much more of a local and individual matter. Although the rebuilding is going to be a far juicier contract and more expensive endeavor because of how long the city has been left flooded.
But most importantly we just can't leave tens of thousands of people dehydrated, starved, and unprotected in unsanitary and violent circumstances. It is wrong not to save them and it should have been done days ago.
Right or wrong, that is a side of the story that shouldn't even be allowed to APPEAR to be true. If the man is not credible, where is the help? Why are they late? Why are there not National Guard troops on every corner? We have the power to blanket that city with HELP and it's simply too little too late.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
To see the National Government pointing fingers is totally unacceptable. They should be too busy DOING SOMETHING. Reagan would have handled this, Bob Dole would have handled this. But to hear that the desperate people didn't dot their i's and cross their t's so it's their fault??? There shouldn't even be room for that discussion.
Bravo! *applause*Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
I'm not defending the federal government's inaction. However I'm not going to say that their critiques are not credible. Should they be doing more? The images and stories we see and hear answer that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
What I don't agree with many of you here is in the action of the Mayor. I don't see how ranting on national TV and radio is beneficial or effective. I don't agree he's not above scrutiny and questioning on what plans where in place (if any) for threats a major storm would pose to the city. I'm not trying to villify the guy, though it may sound like it, but making him heroic for spitting out what's clear to see is rediculous.
As far as the dot the I's and cross the T's statement...I didn't say one thing in any statement that I believe none should get aid without filling out proper paperwork...so don't lay it on me that I brought that into the discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
We need people from Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco to Larry King and Anderson Cooper etc. to tell us there is a problem. If the people know there is a problem, the government should have motivation to fix the problem.
Of that I will be cynical about in terms of cut against his and his administrations wishes. I'm sure all this will come to light soon enough...but for now I don't trust it.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
Day of? No. Day after...hell, now...yes. Though the National Guard should have at least been on call so to speak. No one knew how devestating it was going to be...but when you have what is clearly a very very severe storm on the way...you'd think the higher ups would have a better strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
I'd honestly think much of it could have been...had the proper planning before the disaster been in place. Not saying it would have saved the city but I'm gonna be bold enough to say it may have stopped the raping, the murder, and deaths in the area the states government sent people to get help and stay safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
Yes it is wrong...but it's not going to be made right when you have people clearly not able to handle such a situation in charge of it...even with the NG in place their is no sense of solid distrubution of aid and worse you still have people locked into an area that is doing more harm than good....what good is putting the things you need to save people when those in charge of them are screwing it up? These are clear signs of a weak leadership...Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
I feel like I could organize the relief effort way better just based on my event management experience. Chopper pilots and boat captains and rescue personnel over there, doctors and nurses over there, transport vehicles there, people with good phone voices over there, engineers and sand and concret over there, and GO DO IT. It seems like people whose jobs actually have more to do with this sort of thing could do it, if they wanted to do it.
That's where we divide...I feel people like the mayor and governer should be doing duel roles of organizing relief, developing strategies for aid and security, and generally being those in charge of the states and cities they are responsible for....along with dealing with the federal government directly...not giving more face time to media networks that are owned by companies that could probably do more for them than just put em on TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
I may sound cynical here...but I honestly think more good will come from having a stronger leadership on a state level than only relying on the federal government. In this case they are clearly needed, that's without question, but you can't have a state and city leadership outline the problems everyone is already aware of again and again while watching none of it addressed.
Hopefully things change in the next 24 hours...but as I stated above the mayor, governor, and all the leadership should not be without some form of accountability for what's occured.
What I'm following is more to do with the failure of so many city services at such a fast rate not only due to the massive flooding but for the lack of any protection from what was a clear possiblity. So when you hear experts in such fields say what could be prevented and get from them that it's not just lip service...it raises questions as to how competant the city and state administrations where...I mean ...are.
But the Fed seems to always be the one pointing the finger at someone lower down. It's the game they play. They put someone in a totally intractable position and then demonize them for being in that position. They don't even get their hands dirty.
Now that I won't argue...happens on all levels of the government. That I have first hand experiance with. A lot of the time it's those at the top that are the issue...but the thing is that "those at the top" can be "Those at the bottom" for some people...it's all about who is where, why, and what for...and in this case someone is gonna take a hard fall.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack