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I'm making the supposition that most here believe in themselves to some degree (albeit one could also find a variety of definitions as to what constitutes the "self". What I've been grappling with is the role of faith as a social construct. So I'm curious:
Do you have faith in anything beyond a strict construct of "self"?
Believe in a "higher power"?
Have faith in humankind?
Nature?
The Rule of Law?
Anything else?
OEC
Do you have faith in anything beyond a strict construct of "self"?-not really
Believe in a "higher power"? no
Have faith in humankind? i want to ,but i mean come on...
Nature? yea to an extent
The Rule of Law? not really
Anything else? no
i could expand on a few of those,but uhh...yea....in short: i don't think you should really have "faith" in anything...you have to be able to change and discover things as they come....that didn't come out very good ,sorry..
I understood you perfectly. I boldtyped what is probably the core question. My issue with "faith" has always been the tendency towards literal interpretations and fatalistic views on what happens to us as opposed to what we make happen for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by killerkat
Thanks
OEC
exactly....
We are faith.....we make faith....we dont beilive in something that's aready their...we made it,haha....
you can't be 100% reliant on anything...if you think jesus will save you or whatever that's great,but you can't go get reckless just because you so beilive in that...
again....mind and fingers aren't gelling,as if they ever do :1orglaugh ....
most people think of faith as a preconceived/ preexisting notion...that you either "jump onto the bandwagon" or "jump on another"....
but that's not what Faith is....faith is ideas,ideas that we made,because we were trying to explain things we don't understand....
but if you drop that thinking,than you can be free to live life in such a "free" way .....
I agree, to some extent, on a personal level. It seems to me, however, that one type of "faith" will often be replaced by concepts such as "the people" "the race" or the "state". Millions of people are slaughered for ideals (as they were for religion). I tend to wonder if, as a society, we can or should kill the conception of "God". The 20th Century makes me weary of secularism on a mass scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by killerkat
OEC
that a very good question....Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEyedCat
and i'm not sure of the anwer,and i don't want to know....
it's much like the drug lobbist or whatever,....it can go both ways,and it can go really,really far in those directions(good ,or bad)...
i think it should be on a personal level though,if people have the will to ask life's questions,and question faith,than great....but there should never be a mass "movement" or whatever to promote it...as that would be the same ,nearly brainwashing, tactics used by the faiths,,etc....
i believe in myself
i do not believe in a higher power
i have no faith in mankind
mature, i believe it exists if thats the question lol :P
i believe law plays an important part in all societies, but laws should not be mixed with religion
i believe that you get what you give, good karma bad karma thing.
on a side note:
as you can tell im an athiest, what i dont understand is how christians can believe that god has always existed, but need proof of the big bang and that all matter has always existed inn some shape or form. in my mind, if you question one, you gotta question both.
Interesting point. In fairness, I don't believe science is even close to explaining the "true nature" of the universe. Having said that, I think that people who are questioning one but not the other have fallen into a trap of a literalist interpretation of their religion. This will inevitably lead to contradictory views.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flip
OEC
I have faith in the fact that one day we will all be dead.
to me faith seems to be believing in something that not only has no foundation, but that lack of a foundation is the entire admirable quality of faith. as theologeons always say, 'I don't need proof, I have faith.' while this demonstrates certainly admirable traits such as humility and devotion among the faithful, I think it leaves much to be said for the object of faith. this is usually either an object that is entirely lacking in credibility, or one that intentionally discredits itself as to encourage faith, which is pure vanity. kind of reminds me of a parent that wants it's child to love it, but considers it a virtue for them to do so by receiving no love in return. this is not noble.
I think there is a big difference between trust and faith. I think it's been clearly demonstarted why someone would want to accept faith over rationality, but in the end people that demand proof and people that accept faith are one in the same. they both do so because they believe that what they believe is the truth... I don't have any care about what is "true" and what is "false" the only thing that matters to me is relevence. that's the only standard that holds.
If we found out without a doubt tommorrow simply that the universe was created in the big bang, or that god created it from nothing, would it make it any clearer which religous path was the right one? would it make it so that science suddenly solved all our problems? or would it just leave us with as many if not more question then answers?
:yeeaaahh:
The important thing about faith is not what you believe in but the fact that you believe in something, and it is that something that helps you make it through your days. It doesn't matter if you think there is someone watching your back or if you believe you stand alone, the key is finding support for what you believe and gaining personal strength because of it.
i grew up blindly believing in the Christian God, until i actually got around to reading the bible...ironically, that book destroyed my faith. i believe in myself, and some people close to me, but other than that i have very little faith in anything. I know im alive, i know i will die, and quite honestly i hope the other side is oblivion. I guess i decided i didnt need faith because in the end, all that really matters (to me) is that i enjoy life as much as i can without hurting anyone else. I hope that rant made a little sense...i kinda lost my train of thought in the middle there...
"When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics." Frank Tipler Professor of Mathematical Physics.
I have faith in myself, as for the rest not a chance.
That reminds me of a quote by William James "Religion doesn't work because its true, religion is true because it works." I think you're right, people ultimately have faith even while denying the validity of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
OEC
Interesting. I tend to shy away from cosmological conclusions reached thru science. It is interesting he comes to a judeo-christian theology. I've only read about those who reach eastern religion via quantum physics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spuggy Doom
OEC
I believe that consieousness is always in a state of evolution, from grains of sand to plants to animals to human to planetary to solar and so on
of course what I beleive in changes from day to day
I hear you. I can definitely understand the evolution in your thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by reubs
OEC
I see this as a lot healthier than an adherence to dogma.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Karl
OEC
what you could call my "faith" changes all the time. some days i believe in god, and some days i don't. i'm not a big fan of blindly following anything, especially religion, and as i grow and experience life more my thinking changes. as i get older i'm also exposed to new schools of thought that help to shape what i believe in because they make me think.
Dunno Whats Going On...
now see, i have what some would call "faith". i do believe in a higher power... mostly because of science. To believe that there is no power in the universe requires just as much faith as to believe that there is. Personally i have had many connections and expiriences with the supernatural it is hard for me to believe otherwise. Do i believe in christianity, no. I believe in no one faith but rather on a concept that essentially they are all correct just with different visions and perceptions of the same dieties and foundations.
all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imaginaton of ourselves...
... here's tom with the weather
i was a vehement christian... till i was 11 and was able to withdraw the scary looking books from the library, when i realised all religion is a bit of a cocksuck. i was initiated in second degree gardenerain wicca, then i got myself slung outta the coven after a debate on abortion and the purchase of a ceremonial sword. i'm not sure if i was completely excommunicated, like i give a shit.
i go by if if harms none, do as you will. seems to work for me.
religion is a man made concept and therefore is made weaker by mans imperfections and manipulations. Philosophies are so much better becasue they are more flexible and nondogmatic. Essentially live a good life, treat people well, if you do wrong, right it... if there are rewards due after this life is done you will receive them regardless of the name you give your god, good words to live by even if there is no afterlife, what do you lose?
I have some faith in science, physics, action and reaction...
Mainly because I can see them in effect.
If I jump off a cliff, I die, or break bones.
If I tell my neighbor he's an asshole, he may punch me in the nose.
If a cat gets hit by a car, it gets squished.
It all makes sense, even on a larger scale.
If you pump greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere, the water warms.
If the water warms, you get bigger storms. Bigger storms destroy cities...
It's logic, and nature, not an act of god.
So yes, I have a decent amount of faith in science and logic.
But that does not mean there could not be some other power out there.
But even if there was, I still see action and reaction. Some people call it
Karma, but I see it as action and reaction. If you act like an asshole all the
time, people will not like you, and your life will turn out as it naturally will.
If you are an asshole, and you get a girlfriend, then you have a girlfriend
who is willing to date an asshole. If you have success with money, it is
because you stomped on people to get it, and no one will like you for it.
Life may seem unfair sometimes, but that is just the way it works.
If you are bitter and depressed about it all the time, you will appear
to other people, to be a bitter and depressing person. And some of them
will not like you, will not hire you, will not want to be your friend...
That's just action and reaction. It can all be observed in action...
I do not see the "hand of god" in these actions.
People make choices. People respond to your choices.
And life unfolds.
You make your own destiny.
And of course, the wind could blow over a tree, and it could fall on you tomorrow.
That's life.
Easy to understand, and yet also very random at times.
I believe in the power of suggestion.
I mean seriously, you only live from within your own mind.