What do you think about microchips implanted in skin for GPS tracking?

Apparently there is a measure pending in Oregon to require everyone (except major agribiz) to get chips implanted in all their animals, so that they can be tracked with GPS technology. This is supposed to be to help prevent disease outbreaks and fight terrorism. Oregon granola-munchers claim that most disease outbreaks start with the big agribusiness conglomerates. The measure currently would require the individuals to pay for cyberpunking their pets.

What do you think about microchips implanted in skin for GPS tracking? Okay for animals? Slippery slope? Okay for humans?

Note: this is not a new William Gibson novel. This is real.

1. As if crusading in the name of anti-terrorism wasn't bad enough, forcing people to pay for the mandatory GPS chips is like beating the cat every time the dog pees on the rug. If it came down to paying out the nose for insurance to the piont where I couldn't afford to eat, or eating like a king and banking on never having an "accident" by looking out for myself, I would choose the latter...but I'm only an American, since when does the american government care about what I think.
2. Why stop at GPS inplants in humans, I say go full blown thought monitors to stop terrorism...right now I'm thinking that they're retarded as hard as I can, but I don't think they're getting the message.

Charging people for doing unnecessary and intrusive surgery on their pets reminds me of the director's cut of that movie Brazil where they charge the guy for torturing him. Possibly the only really funny moment in that movie and the studio cut it from the general theatrical release for being too "controversial" or something.

RFID chips have a range of about six feet. how many GPS satellites orbit Earth at a height of six feet or less?

Aren't RFID chips for different purposes? I thought they use those for medical information things. I remember hearing about those chips they're implanting in people so their medical records are readily available.

I prefer to be an analog human...

To all concerned..."Shut up, and get back in line"

(you damn boat rockers just cant be happy doing what you are told to do)

ummm... EW. creepy. i dont wanna chip in me. unless its bbq flavored.
i would get a chip implanted in my dog, one of those ones that the vet scans and their file comes up... those are awesome, and they only inject them under the skin with a big needle, no surgery at all...
other than that... i dont think so.

Aside from the crrepy factor of it I find it more than a little silly that everyone except the big companies, who are most likely to have outbreaks of disease or be targeted by terrorism, has to do this.

I gotta back the hippies on this one.

Also, what is the point of the tagging? Are terorists hiding cows from us? Sneaking rouge al queda cows with nefarious intentions into the herd? Does the chip fire a warning if the cow sneezes? I would have to see some serious justification for this.

As far as tagging people that's an easy no.

those fucking cow hiding terrorists!!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cafe_Post_Mortem

Aside from the crrepy factor of it I find it more than a little silly that everyone except the big companies, who are most likely to have outbreaks of disease or be targeted by terrorism, has to do this.

I gotta back the hippies on this one.

Also, what is the point of the tagging? Are terorists hiding cows from us? Sneaking rouge al queda cows with nefarious intentions into the herd? Does the chip fire a warning if the cow sneezes? I would have to see some serious justification for this.

As far as tagging people that's an easy no.

---

Yeah, I've only seen the granola spin on this, so I'm hoping there is more to it, but it just seems really really really silly with a tinge of scary.

thought this from campaign for truth was interested

History of the Implantable Microchip
(Doesn't totalitarianism just get under your skin?)
by Phillip Day

In all of mankind's history, the current age is the first time total control of the population can be accomplished using high-tech tracking devices and super-computers. Clearly technology is moving further and further towards an ability to track everything from motorised inventory to livestock, and finally humans.

The breakthrough to a co-ordinated system of control came with the development of the Global Positioning Satellite system (GPS) and its applications, developed by the market leader, Trimble Technologies of Sunnyvale, California. Albert Wheelon, a former chairman of Hughes Aircraft Corporation, remarked, "Communications satellites were the first great success in space. But GPS is going to dwarf that - GPS is going to pervade everything we do."

Scientists discovered that, since satellites maintain a stable orbit around the earth, radio signals picked up by a receiver on the ground could indicate the position of that receiver with remarkable accuracy. Initially it was the potential for navigation which first caught the imagination of commercial business, but as we shall learn, the wider applications for telecommunications and inventory control soon became evident.

According to The Futurist magazine (March/April 1996), "Telecommunications projects now constitute the number one infrastructure program around the world. The global information super-highway is a trillion-dollar project involving many nations and firms."

Researcher Terry Cook reports, "Motorola… has proposed the Iridium Project which would use a constellation of 66 satellites to cover the world. Teledesic has proposed a $9 billion system that involves 840 satellites in lower orbit… Because [of the stability] of satellite orbits, the triangulation of signals from at least four satellites, or 'ranging' as it is known, has proven to be highly accurate. Equipped with atomic clocks, these satellites can land a plane on a runway 'with centimeter accuracy'. Geologists [using satellite technology] can now measure the motion of the earth's tectonic plates down to just a few millimeters."

Commercial uses for GPS have since become widespread. Airliners, ships, haulage firms, and taxis equipped with GPS transponders make use of this technology not only for pin-point navigation, but also for inventory control purposes. Trimble has installed GPS-based Automatic Vehicle Location (AVL) systems for 911 emergency services in Boston, San Diego, San Francisco, Sacramento, Phoenix, Portland, Cincinnati, Chicago, Milwaukee and even Mexico City. Elsewhere across the world, similar programs have been initiated in major conurbations, providing real-time locations for ambulances, fire engines, police cars, trucks, land-diggers and bus fleets.

In Denver, Colorado, GPS receivers are used to track more than 825 buses and 95 support vehicles. In Scottsdale, Arizona, city personnel were involved in an eighteen-month project, tagging over half a million city assets against vandalism and theft - from water and utility features to lighting fixtures and mobile traffic lights.

According to The Bulletin, Bend, Oregon, "Some visionaries anticipate the day when virtually everything that moves in society - every shipping container, aircraft, car, truck, bus, farm tractor and bulldozer - will contain a microchip that will track and, in many cases, report its location. Massive computer systems, they say, will tie together the movements of assets in the economy, providing a sophisticated information system… The technology, now poised to leap into virtually every aspect of the American economy, is expected to create a $5-10 billion industry by the end of this decade and more than 100,000 jobs."

RFID Implantable Biochips
GPS technology took a quantum leap with the development of bionics capable of being tracked by satellite once implanted in animals or humans. These tiny devices, powered by a lithium battery, could be geographically detected, using Radio Frequency Identification (RFID), to within inches anywhere on the surface of the planet. Lithium is employed as a miniature power-plant for the chip since it self-energises through changes in the host's body temperature. Thus the site for the implant will usually be those body parts demonstrating the greatest variations in temperature - in the back of the hand or front of the head. Lithium does have one drawback, experts say. It produces an infection when brought into contact with exposed organic tissue.

The Washington Times, 22nd May 1995, reported that in England, Prince William, second in line to the British throne and widely tipped to be the next monarch, "...was electronically 'tagged' [for security reasons] when he entered Eton [college]…." In the United States, Relevance magazine discovered that "trial runs of biochip implants in children have been conducted in Florida day-care centers."

Companies such as VeriChip, Trimble, Destron Fearing, Texas Instruments, Bio-Medic Data Systems Research, GEC and others are at the forefront of this research. Sematech Corporation announced the development of their chip in 1993 that was 1/200th the size of a human hair (0.35 micron) and announced that current research was attempting to perfect a device only 0.1 micron. Sematech's chip is not an implant chip, but its partner corporation, Texas Instruments, has developed the implantable TIRIS device (Texas Instruments Registration and Identification System), which, as its corporate video sales information informs us, is now used to inventory and catalogue millions of livestock throughout the United States.

It may come as a surprise to some, but chip implants are now administered as a matter of routine. Not only farmers use them for livestock, but animal pounds and 'conscientious' owners tag everything from horses and parrots to cats and dogs and other assorted creatures. Chips are naturally capable of storing medical and vaccination data required by veterinarians, as well as even a log of the animal's fluctuations in body temperature, if required.

In Marin County, California, the City of Novato requires mandatory tagging of cats. "Overriding objections that their actions have Orwellian overtones," writes The San Francisco Chronicle, 27th April 1995, "Novato City Council members mandated early yesterday that cats have identifying microchips implanted between their shoulder blades."

The Marin Humane Society sponsored the law, noting that "since the society began a voluntary microchip identification program six years ago, the reunion rate [between owners and their lost pets] shot up by 200%."

Proponents of this new system are keen to broadcast the fact that, prior to this program, cats and dogs missing in Marin County were reunited with their owners only 14% of the time. Since implementing the scheme, the figure is now as high as 80%, with the failures being untagged pets in almost all cases.

The St Louis/Region, 3rd June 1995, sports an article headed, Mane Event - County Rangers Get Their Horses Microchip IDs. The story begins, "Queen Elizabeth II's dog has one and now, so do the St Louis County Park Rangers' horses. They're sporting a microchip injected into their necks to help identify lost or stolen pets. Each chip - about the size of a grain of rice - has a unique number that can be found with a hand-held scanner…"

Selling Chip Implants to the Public
Tim Willard, of the Washington DC-based World Future Society, remarks that the public is happy to go along with the idea of implanting animals. "But just suggest something like an implant in humans and the social outcry is tremendous. While people over the years may have grown used to artificial body parts, there is definitely a strong aversion to things being implanted. It's the 'Big Brother is watching' concept. People would be afraid that all of their thoughts and movements were being monitored. It wouldn't matter if the technology was there or not, people would be worried."

The Daily Mail headline of Thursday, 24th September 1998 read:
£20 Identity Tag For Pets
Microchip under the Skin of Every Dog and Cat in Britain

The angry reactions to this news however were not over civil rights, but the cost of the tags. The article explained the purpose of MP John Prescott's proposed measure: "It is designed partly to control a fast-growing problem with strays. But it is also seen as vital to the success of proposed anti-rabies laws, unveiled yesterday, which would allow pets with microchips to re-enter Britain from some countries without undergoing quarantine."

Who scoffs now that the chipping of pets will not be mandatorily applied across the board in the near future? What will happen if you refuse to have little Fifi tagged? As the bio-tagging of animals is closely sold alongside the scrapping of Britain's hated quarantine laws, few believe the measure will not be enthusiastically accepted across the country and become the staple for identifying animals and livestock in the very near future.

The quartz scanner message, 'No ID Found' will come to symbolise an 'illegal' dog or feline, possibly suffering from all kinds of health complaints hazardous to decent, law-abiding animals. Authorities will ask themselves, "Why wouldn't the owner have chipped his pet? Did he have something to hide?"

The political spin placed on the future benefits of RFID technology is already impressive. The idea of using chips to track kidnapped or runaway children is suggested by futurists and social workers every time a grotesque child abuse incident appears in the papers. In fact, human tagging has been on-going for some time. A US Marine Corps friend of mine, involved in Desert Storm, remarked that it was common knowledge at the time that implantable chips were given to volunteer GIs and their efficacy tested by satellite during the Ground War.

Paroled prisoners, Alzheimer's sufferers and convicted shoplifters have all demo-ed the ubiquitous chip, mostly in the form of a biometric bracelet or other 'fashion' accessory, so that authorities may keep tabs on their whereabouts. Is it but a short hop, skip and a jump from the bracelet to a permanent implant in the hand for the population at large?

Scientists have been melding biometrics with the awesome power of super-computers to a degree that is almost unbelievable. The technology already exists whereby over 3,000 pages of documentation can be stored on the implantable chip, information which can then be accessed by satellite or scanners linked to computers for all manner of purposes, including logging medical records, social security information - even as a replacement for cash. Today, the produce we buy is scanned for barcodes, tomorrow we may pay for our shopping at the checkouts, not with paper and coin, but by simply passing our hands over the scanner and having our accounts debited accordingly.

Technical author Maxwell Longren comments, "Everyone is touting the positive benefits of the implantable biochip. No one to my knowledge, outside of an increasingly uneasy minority, is discussing its destructive capability for abuse and control. In the past, mankind has never learned from the lessons of history. Nothing, I'm afraid, is going to change in the future. "

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Apparently there is a measure pending in Oregon to require everyone (except major agribiz) to get chips implanted in all their animals, so that they can be tracked with GPS technology. This is supposed to be to help prevent disease outbreaks and fight terrorism. Oregon granola-munchers claim that most disease outbreaks start with the big agribusiness conglomerates. The measure currently would require the individuals to pay for cyberpunking their pets.

What do you think about microchips implanted in skin for GPS tracking? Okay for animals? Slippery slope? Okay for humans?

Note: this is not a new William Gibson novel. This is real.

---

My opinion on this matter can only be spoken AFTER the facts behind the WHY of this phenomenon. They do it like this so that when human-mandated chips become reality, we are less likely to mob over it. It's called a field test.

Now, my own personal view is, it is needless, and a waste of money, and won't prevent a god damn thing, since the tech they are pushing has been in use at our National Parks and in zoo's for DECADES, and all the problems plaguinig the Grizzly and the Tiger are not lessened.

Field Test, and an expensive one. :rolleyes:

i think there is some confusion how the technologies work

rfid tags have low range but could be used by putting scanners at every storefront then you would not need gps if you had a physical address

the gps sattelites only transmit a signal they do not recieve any (other than functional software updates)

so gps location reciever transmitters need to have a base here on earth or a different sattelite in orbit which would take alot of power

i got a feeling that by the time battery technology exists to fit in a grain of rice and supply power to last years

we will have facial recognition and hi-def cameras on every intersection logging everybody

i'm quite suprised that we can buy gas without having to swipe our drivers licence ,which i am all for, to make it hard on people with revoked licences who shouldn't be driving

Crazy stuff they are thinkin about putting them in us Military people and we pretty much have no say so in the subject. TRY TO PUT ONE OF THOSE THINGS IN ME BUDDY.

I think its scarey. I think if the government wants that done so badly, they should be the ones paying for it.
But in the future, they are probably going to require all humans to be tracked some way or another. Scarey stuff indeed.

The thing is, I don't think it is about controll as such, I think it is about money. The company who makes the hardware and software for this would make an noteworthy amount of cash and make GPS pets look more acceptable to the rest of the country. I think that is how it will infect people too, not because the people who make the stuff care where we go, but because they will make more money if it is maditory whether we or the gov't pay for it.

I think I am going to go pulverize my cellphone now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Apparently there is a measure pending in Oregon to require everyone (except major agribiz) to get chips implanted in all their animals, so that they can be tracked with GPS technology. This is supposed to be to help prevent disease outbreaks and fight terrorism. Oregon granola-munchers claim that most disease outbreaks start with the big agribusiness conglomerates. The measure currently would require the individuals to pay for cyberpunking their pets.

What do you think about microchips implanted in skin for GPS tracking? Okay for animals? Slippery slope? Okay for humans?

Note: this is not a new William Gibson novel. This is real.

---

GPS tracking devices are already being implanted in sex offenders. I have no problem with these laws. Obviously, GPS devices planted in the general populace would be a different matter. I don't believe any courts have, as yet, ruled whether the GPS devices will stand up to constitutional scrutiny.

OEC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OneEyedCat

I don't believe any courts have, as yet, ruled whether the GPS devices will stand up to constitutional scrutiny.

---

Tell that to Canadians
:thumb:

I have the same problem with tagging sex offender that I do with megan's law and the three strikes law. Once you show them that commiting this crime will effectively end their life no matter what then it becomes all about avoiding getting caught, no matter what the cost.

In other words, if the penalty is worse than the penalty for murder, why not kill the victim to keep them from testifying against you?

Let's see what this little item does for the debate...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/02...oyees_chipped/

Remember though, that current RFID technology was never designed to be secure. It's for tracking boxes of beans, not people. The chip broadcasts the full code every time it's interrogated, so to collect everyone's data and clone their chips, all you need is a reader dumped near a doorway. About as secure as having your social security number tattooed on your eyelids, and about as easy to change if you've been cloned.

mG

yeah i have few vet friends and the rfid chip is a great thing for pets.

as for me: OH HELL NO!

i don't want anything in me that can be scanned from indirect contact. thats why i won't use those new chip beeping credit cards. fuck that shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cafe_Post_Mortem

I have the same problem with tagging sex offender that I do with megan's law and the three strikes law. Once you show them that commiting this crime will effectively end their life no matter what then it becomes all about avoiding getting caught, no matter what the cost.

In other words, if the penalty is worse than the penalty for murder, why not kill the victim to keep them from testifying against you?

---

And your solution is? Personally, I do not believe these people can be deterred.

OEC

Additionally, no empirical data supports the claim that incidents of molesters killing their victims has risen after the passage of these laws. Given the recidivism rate, long incarceration and tracking are the best options.

OEC

Quote:

---

GPS tracking devices are already being implanted in sex offenders. I have no problem with these laws. Obviously, GPS devices planted in the general populace would be a different matter. I don't believe any courts have, as yet, ruled whether the GPS devices will stand up to constitutional scrutiny.

---

this a complete fabrication no one has ever been implanted with a gps tracking anything

gps is the system of sattelites that transmit a signal to recievers on earth to determine their location ,a gps tracker would have to recieve the signal calculate its position and then transmit the location to a base station at regular intervals maybe once every couple minutes

gps and rfid are apples and oranges

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bohoki

this a complete fabrication no one has ever been implanted with a gps tracking anything

gps is the system of sattelites that transmit a signal to recievers on earth to determine their location ,a gps tracker would have to recieve the signal calculate its position and then transmit the location to a base station at regular intervals maybe once every couple minutes

gps and rfid are apples and oranges

---

Try reading the actual link. Jessica's Law has been passed in several states. They have referred to the devices as "GPS". I don't know to what extent they are being legally challenged.

OEC

States Move on Sex Offender GPS Tracking

Saturday, July 30, 2005

http://www.foxnews.com/images/service_ap_36.gif

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. — Technology that helps the military align targets and motorists find their way is being tapped to track some sex offenders forever. Spurred by headlines of released sex offenders accused of murder, some states are mandating use of the Global Positioning System (search) for tracking. Many lawmakers see electronic monitoring as a natural evolution of statutes that already require sex offenders to register their addresses with authorities.

At least four states — Florida, Missouri, Ohio and Oklahoma — passed laws this year requiring lifetime electronic monitoring for some sex offenders, even if their sentences would normally have expired. Similar bills have been proposed in Congress and other states, including North Dakota and Alabama, where lawmakers this week approved legislation and sent it to the governor.

But some civil-rights experts and defense attorneys contend such requirements are too onerous and attach the stigma and inconvenience of electronic anklets and GPS transmitters to those who may never commit a crime again.

GPS monitoring makes sense for a small group of high-risk offenders, evaluated case-by-case, said John La Fond (search), a law professor at the University of Missouri-Kansas City and author of the recently published book "Preventing Sexual Violence."

"A law that requires that everyone who has committed a crime against a young child should be subject to lifetime locator technology is simply foolish," La Fond said.

After a registered sex offender was charged in March with killing 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford, Florida legislators quickly mandated tougher prison sentences for people who commit sex offenses against children and required lifetime GPS monitoring after serving time.

Missouri Sen. Matt Bartle (search) liked the Florida legislation so much that he copied and expanded it to include repeat sex offenders who commit crimes — such as exposing oneself to a child — that would otherwise be punishable by seven years or less of imprisonment.

Bartle said he intentionally cast a wide net.

"I think the general public is really not terribly confident that we're getting it right when it comes to *********s — that this individual case-by-case approach is leading to some very horrific situations," he said.

A new Oklahoma law also requires habitual sex offenders to wear GPS monitoring devices for the rest of their lives. Ohio's budget funds lifetime GPS monitoring only for people classified as sexually violent predators.

Many other states use GPS monitoring for selected people on probation or parole but the monitoring ends with the sentence.

People on the tracking system must wear the electronic waterproof ankle bands at all times and stay within a certain distance from their separate GPS transmitters, which can be carried on belts, in purses or set down on desks and tables when at work or home. The transmitter is about 3 inches long and tall and 1 1/2 inches wide.

Part of what makes the technology attractive is the ability to trigger automatic alerts to law enforcement authorities — by e-mail, cell phone text messages or faxes — anytime sex offenders approach off-limits areas like a school or stray from their designated route between work and home.

Local authorities also have the ability to pinpoint a person's location at any moment — shown as a dot on a computer map that contains street names and the offender's traveling direction and speed.

Pro Tech Monitoring Inc. already uses GPS technology to follow about 5,000 people on parole, probation and house arrest in 38 states, said Richard Nimer, its vice president for business development. He said inquiries about offender tracking services spiked nearly fourfold after Lunsford's death.

The GPS technology is not foolproof, however.

Authorities in Boise, Idaho, say paroled child-sex offender William Lightner cut off a GPS bracelet and fled on July 23. Near Tallahassee, Fla., Kenneth Lamberton was wearing a GPS monitor awaiting a child-molestation trial when authorities allege he tried to force one girl into a sex act in March and another to expose herself in April.

Both men had been assigned passive GPS devices that send information once a day. Florida is switching to the active GPS devices, which instantly alert authorities to any violations.

Florida's experience shows offenders on GPS tracking are less likely to get in trouble than those under traditional supervision. The state Department of Corrections followed about 16,000 offenders placed on community supervision in the 2001-2002 fiscal year, including more than 1,000 under GPS monitoring.

Two years later, the department had revoked the community release of 31 percent of those on GPS monitoring, compared with 44 percent of those under traditional supervision. Nearly 6 percent of GPS-monitored offenders had committed new felonies or misdemeanors, compared with 11 percent of those who were not electronically monitored.

Lifetime electronic monitoring may be preferable to lifelong stints in mental-health institutions, said Jack King of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. But rather than targeting entire categories of criminals, states should mandate it after individual hearings, he said.

Kansas City civil-rights attorney Arthur Benson already is challenging Missouri's lifetime sexual offender registry.

"While these laws are often couched in terms of protecting the public against repeat offenses, at heart they are vengeful, punishing acts," Benson said.

yeah when you take even a cat to the vet here they REALLY try to get you to do it, but it's really cheap here, like 15 to 30 dollars.

i didnt see anything in that article that implied devices being implanted in the human body

most of the ankle tracking devices are not gps enabled they are just ankle radio beacons that have a base station in a known area and send an alarm when the transmiter is out of range

they provide the person with an ankle transmiter a portable unit that has a gps reciever and it will transmit the location of the ankle to a base station

someone claimed people were being implanted with gps devices which is a falsehood

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bohoki

i didnt see anything in that article that implied devices being implanted in the human body

most of the ankle tracking devices are not gps enabled they are just ankle radio beacons that have a base station in a known area and send an alarm when the transmiter is out of range

they provide the person with an ankle transmiter a portable unit that has a gps reciever and it will transmit the location of the ankle to a base station

someone claimed people were being implanted with gps devices which is a falsehood

---

Should have read GPS tracking device. RFID implants have been proposed for sex offenders in Ohio, however.

..except of course that the link I posted above is about implantable RFIDs in humans, forced as part of an employment contract.

not that anyone ever reads my links...

mG

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindgames

..except of course that the link I posted above is about implantable RFIDs in humans, forced as part of an employment contract.

not that anyone ever reads my links...

mG

---

i read it but i do not give it much creedance i would need mutiple sources to believe it i can imagine the lawsuits it could bring if a person got an infection or the liablitity form any sort of reaction in the future (like the silicone breast implants) years later even unrelated things could be blamed on the device

are fingerprints and retina scans not secure enough

anyone with a reader could just stand next to a guy with the implant get the code and clone it


the small ones that are implantable have a range of less than a 3 feet

this reminds me of when the credit card companies were going to use smart cards for cash cards as a stand alone cash device they realized that there is no secure stand alone device they could come up with

so the magnetic stripe and having it call into the credit center is most secure way the new little fast pay rfids they are trying now are just encoded with a number that is linked to a credit card (mainly because the mag stripes can become damaged and the reader can be faulty with dirty heads) and you dont have to sign when you scan
(i wonder how many cases of flu get spread by every body using the same pen at the checkout stand)

maybe they could just make some type of crimpon ear ring that is non removable without surgery they would have more takers

i would love to see people running around with them wildlife tags on their ear

marlin perkins would roll over in his grave

we have to do something about that cruel and unusual punishment clause

i'm all for banning cruel but judges have been doing unusual punishments all the time

i say bring back chastity belts(nut exploding ,dick amputation if tampered with)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bohoki

we have to do something about that cruel and unusual punishment clause

i'm all for banning cruel but judges have been doing unusual punishments all the time

i say bring back chastity belts(nut exploding ,dick amputation if tampered with)

---

Sounds like a plan:1orglaugh :thumb:

OEC