Are weak people intrinsically immoral?

It seems like sometimes there are people who just fuck over absolutely everyone around them, but they always claim they are doing it because of some external factor i.e. someone else was putting pressure on them or they didn't have the funds or anything else they claim is out of their control.

Are people like this just weak or are they just total manipulative liars? If it is weakness and these people are just too buffetted by events, does this mean that weak people are, by their nature, immoral and incapable of keeping a promise?

Imho, they are using other people as an exscuse.

Trying to blanket statement everyone is kind of a hard thing to do though.

People who know right from wrong, but fold under pressure are still guilty. I've been that type of person, and have knowingly placated people who were trash-talking someone I knew didn't deserve it, just to stay "neutral". Until recently, when I started speaking up for what I believe in, I was always the peacekeeper, and I had no enemies. Having been through that evolution, I can see right and wrong from both sides of the fence, and I have no sympathy for people who screw others over to cover their own pathetic asses.
So, contrary to whatever a person's nature is, at some point conscience should kick in.

morality is a social construct. If anything, someone that makes steps to justify or cover up thier immoral actions, shows that they do subscribe to the belief in the moral code, in so far as they are acknowledging and recognizing it as such. It's arguable as to whethere or not that makes a person weak, but I'd say it takes a weaker person than one that creates thier own morals and stands by them and calls them right, even and especially if they are in defiance of societies accepted morals.

this question raises a lot of other questions,

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

It seems like sometimes there are people who just fuck over absolutely everyone around them, but they always claim they are doing it because of some external factor i.e. someone else was putting pressure on them or they didn't have the funds or anything else they claim is out of their control.

Are people like this just weak or are they just total manipulative liars? If it is weakness and these people are just too buffetted by events, does this mean that weak people are, by their nature, immoral and incapable of keeping a promise?

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I think you have two different populations here.

There is a vast contingent of callow people who seem perpetually unable to escape the gravity well of a troubled past. They usually can't bear the idea of accepting responsibility for their actions, because then they'd be complicit in their own suffering to some extent. They tend to lie to avoid conflict, and just sort of let preventable bad things happen because they are too focused on their own misery and vulnerabilities.

There is a second group that actually craves the drama that their misdeeds cause. Generally, these people are a bit neurotic and are seldom satisfied with any accomplishment, personal or otherwise. They are very very fond of being known, and they frequently talk about their reputations or the things that they might be getting ready to do, maybe, sometime soon. They lie at whim, and they encourage preventable bad things to happen because they don't like being bored, and they don't like solutions without conflict.

There is, of course, some overlap between the groups.

I also see there being two types.

There are the people who are just stupid, irresponsible, and don't think about their actions. They borrow money, forget to pay it back, don't show up to jobs, and generally flake out on everything. But they are just generally stoney, flakey, stupid people. They aren't really trying to be jerks, or manipulative, or take advantage of people. It's just how they are. I can handle those people, because I just don't give them what they want, and don't expect much from them, and keep them at arm's distance. But they can still be fun people, or nice people. Just irresponsible...

Then there are the people who feel like they deserve it all. That life has been unfair to them, and they deserve more. And if someone else has what they want, they will try to take it from that person. These are the liars, backstabbers, and people who only think of themselves. They know what they are doing, but they try to justify their bad behavior. Those people are the ones you want nothing to do with. Because all you will hear is complaints, negativity, and they don't care who they hurt to get what they want in life...

I hate to over simplify such a great subject as morality, but lets face it, most people suck. If they are not the center of their own lil world, it would crumble.

gotta love folks who fuck everyone around them over, and only see themselves as doing good.

i'm not talking about folks who make massive miscalculations, and fuck folks over with the best of intentions either.

nope, since they 'manifest their own reality', all those strings of broken relationships, friendships gone bad, business partners fucked over, etc. were just a natural expression of the universe giving the other guy what he secretly desired...

...ah yes, the social darwinian deepak chopra's...

...we all fuck up sometimes, but if you only ever hear stories about how it was the other guys, and story after story... :rolleyes:

It may just be the crowd I've run with lately, but I have seen a lot more people who drop the world is out to get me attitude for some weird manifest destiny assholery.

They cheat on their girls cause 'everyone does it, it's just being a guy'.

Or they rip off friends and relations cause ' someone else would have done worse' or 'it's their fault for being to trusting'

That or the ever popular 'for there own good' or 'it's the only way they learn'

I guess maybe it is just a variation of the whole shifting the blame thing, but I hate it just a little more.

i tend to think that people are just manipulative liars. of course, i've been fucked over by enough people in my lifetime (hell in the past couple of years alone) to warrant this way of thinking. of course, they were all only thonking of themselves at the time and not how their actions would affect others. i still try to give people the benefit of the doubt every time, i don't know why. maybe it's cause i'm subconsciously a masochist.

i also do think that people (speaking generally here) by their natue are weak (a lot of them anyway), which may explain why i still try to believe that some of them are not.

I personally used to blame my shortcomings on external factors, but I have learned in time to accept responsibility for things that are my fault, I think that;s just a part of growing up.

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Originally Posted by Buster Friendly

if you only ever hear stories about how it was the other guys, and story after story...

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That's a really good thing to remember.

Many times, you meet someone, and they tell you about how someone fucked them over, or someone they dated was an asshole, or their boss was an asshole, or their friends fucked them over, etc...

Well, if their life is full of those stories, and full of failed friendships, lost jobs, failed relationships, you have to either figure that they have really bad taste, and make really bad choices, or a lot of that stuff is probably their fault...

Because not all bosses are assholes. Not all guys are assholes, not all friends are backstabbers. Most healthy people have a group of good friends that last, because they are all pretty much good people, and get along, and don't fuck each other over. So it's good to look at people, and their history, before you roll out the welcome mat...

manipulative liars

after a few days to think about this it seems to me that this is something that can be applied to practicaly every situation involving more than one person...................so if the weak are the ones........

well I guess that's my answer weak people are immoral and incapable of keeping a promise so they have to make an excuse

manipulative liars....well they dont have excuses they have reasons