School Dress Codes...Getting a little too out of hand?

Does anybody else besides me think that schools are getting a little too out of control with how much they limit how one dresses? Ex. In my highschool years, I was required to censor certain shirts because of the brand name Sex Pot ReVenGe that was printed on the front of the shirt. What really got me though, was girls wearing incredibly tiny skirts in which you could see their underwear, high heels, and shirts cut incredibly low. Another incident which got me was a boy was wearing a shirt with a candy cane on it, pointing near his...you know...that read "Suck This" and they did not make him censor his shirt. I don't get why I would have to censor a shirt that had an adorable little mummy drawing on it that did nothing to evoke anykind of sexual tendencies when there were girls running around dressed like cheap hookers and boys wearing shirts asking for blow jobs. SO I submit this to you, Do you guys think that the school dress codes are getting out of hand (Or just wierd for that matter)?

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Originally Posted by ObscureZan

Does anybody else besides me think that schools are getting a little too out of control with how much they limit how one dresses? Ex. In my highschool years, I was required to censor certain shirts because of the brand name Sex Pot ReVenGe that was printed on the front of the shirt. What really got me though, was girls wearing incredibly tiny skirts in which you could see their underwear, high heels, and shirts cut incredibly low. Another incident which got me was a boy was wearing a shirt with a candy cane on it, pointing near his...you know...that read "Suck This" and they did not make him censor his shirt. I don't get why I would have to censor a shirt that had an adorable little mummy drawing on it that did nothing to evoke anykind of sexual tendencies when there were girls running around dressed like cheap hookers and boys wearing shirts asking for blow jobs. SO I submit this to you, Do you guys think that the school dress codes are getting out of hand (Or just wierd for that matter)?

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I'm in favor of high school dress codes. I believe it discourages conspicuous consumption amongst buffies and fluffies. They should require all students to just wear solid colors. You can do a lot with black. If they learn to read, I may allow two colors if they meet my aesthetic specifications. :1orglaugh :thumb:

Jackie T

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

I'm in favor of high school dress codes. I believe it discourages conspicuous consumption amongst buffies and fluffies. They should require all students to just wear solid colors. You can do a lot with black. If they learn to read, I may allow two colors if they meet my aesthetic specifications. :1orglaugh :thumb:

Jackie T

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haha Yeah. solid colours would work. But point being, there is a dress code in place it's just not enforced with certain students because they're 'popular' or on a sports team, or the teachers just like the way they look ><;; I am too in favour of the dress codes in schools...as long as they apply to everybody and are actually enforced against everybody.

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Originally Posted by ObscureZan

haha Yeah. solid colours would work. But point being, there is a dress code in place it's just not enforced with certain students because they're 'popular' or on a sports team, or the teachers just like the way they look ><;; I am too in favour of the dress codes in schools...as long as they apply to everybody and are actually enforced against everybody.

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Oh I know. I was just being silly. Interesting. This is exactly what I would want to eliminate. The "popular" kids (read wealthier) and/or jocks seeking that sort of distinction.

Hypothetically: Do you think a dress code would ever work in practice? Or would it always just be applied subjectively? You'd have to come up with some strong, yet flexible rules, to avoid this.

Are High School admins just assholes who fuel this fire? I remember some being so. They acted like they were still in high school as well.

Can it be done in public schools? Private and Charters are no problema. They attract a different breed of educators.

Jackie T

my vision of the future requires there be no dress code

Now see the whole "popular/jock" kids getting special treatment as far as the dress codes and shit goes makes me believe that Uniforms are the best option. Yes, when I was in school I rebelled as much as possible (I got my cape confiscated once). But I was offended to no end when the kid in front of me in the lunch line was wearing a huge 4 inch "bling" cross and a t shirt that said "Jesus beat the Devil with a big ugly stick" on it and I was told to take off my pentacle that was no bigger than a dime, it was "offensive". I was also told that my sandals were inappropriate and I needed to call my mom and have her bring me real shoes, despite the girl behind me wearing exactly the same sandals being told to go to class. Its not enough that the administration plays favorites but teenagers themselves are classist. Of course I also went to a school that measured the width of tank top straps and the length of skirts, which weren't allowed to be too long. But its just like the TSA making "random" searches. The ppl they pick on rarely deserve it. *sigh* I could rant for hrs here, but suffice it to say I think if dress codes are going to be so insane and detailed they might as well give up on letting ppl dress themselves and institute uniforms. Schools are institutions anyway.

~K

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Originally Posted by keiko

Now see the whole "popular/jock" kids getting special treatment as far as the dress codes and shit goes makes me believe that Uniforms are the best option. Yes, when I was in school I rebelled as much as possible (I got my cape confiscated once). But I was offended to no end when the kid in front of me in the lunch line was wearing a huge 4 inch "bling" cross and a t shirt that said "Jesus beat the Devil with a big ugly stick" on it and I was told to take off my pentacle that was no bigger than a dime, it was "offensive". I was also told that my sandals were inappropriate and I needed to call my mom and have her bring me real shoes, despite the girl behind me wearing exactly the same sandals being told to go to class. Its not enough that the administration plays favorites but teenagers themselves are classist. Of course I also went to a school that measured the width of tank top straps and the length of skirts, which weren't allowed to be too long. But its just like the TSA making "random" searches. The ppl they pick on rarely deserve it. *sigh* I could rant for hrs here, but suffice it to say I think if dress codes are going to be so insane and detailed they might as well give up on letting ppl dress themselves and institute uniforms. Schools are institutions anyway.

~K

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Yeah, that's the impression I was getting. I wouldn't rule out uniforms categorically, but it's obvious a dress code as I pictured it would fail due to the subjective enforcement of the admins. That is something I oppose on a deep level. It's pretty sad really. It does work at private schools, although the dress codes that spring to my mind approach the specifics of actual uniforms.

JT

putting our youth in uniforms would actualy force them to figure out how to really express themselves as individuals. therefore uniforms are a bad idea

The thing about uniforms is that, if one's parents have a bit more money than others, then a better-cut, with better materials, version of the uniform can worn by rich, or least upper-middle-class kids, while everyone else ends up making do with school-issue, or close to school-issue stock.

Officers in various armies since the introduction of uniforms in the late 1600's have always found such ways of distinguishing themselves from the common soldiery, and I see no means of prohibiting or stopping, at least effectively, such distinguishing marks.

Also, please don't forget that soldiers, sailors, air force personnel and marines have found ways of playing with the looks of their uniforms, either for greater comfort and utility in various climates, or as a means of self- or group assertion.

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Originally Posted by Donald Rilea

The thing about uniforms is that, if one's parents have a bit more money than others, then a better-cut, with better materials, version of the uniform can worn by rich, or least upper-middle-class kids, while everyone else ends up making do with school-issue, or close to school-issue stock.

Officers in various armies since the introduction of uniforms in the late 1600's have always found such ways of distinguishing themselves from the common soldiery, and I see no means of prohibiting or stopping, at least effectively, such distinguishing marks.

Also, please don't forget that soldiers, sailors, air force personnel and marines have found ways of playing with the looks of their uniforms, either for greater comfort and utility in various climates, or as a means of self- or group assertion.

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If they were truly the same uniforms, that wouldn't happen. I see nothing wrong with allowing kids to make basic alterations. There will never be a utopia of egalitarianism regardless of uniforms. The only point would be to minimize the effects when the kids actually *had* to be together. This would hopefully enable more focus on actual education. I have no doubt the Armani and Gucci would be waiting in the trunk of some kids' Jags etc.

Jackie T

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

putting our youth in uniforms would actualy force them to figure out how to really express themselves as individuals. therefore uniforms are a bad idea

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:1orglaugh :thumb:

Good point, Jackie.

Personally, though, am still not convinced(BTW, went to Catholic school for nine months, so I did the uniform thing there)that somehow, somewhere, there wouldn't be at least some way for clever kids to get 'round that.

The Armani and Gucci stuff waitin' in the trunks of one's Jag is one way, and there are probably loads of others, too.

School regulations would have to be very strict about what type of uniform, and from where parents or pupils could procure their uniforms, would have to be strictly enforced, even if it meant potentially alienating particularly active or financially contributory parents and their off-spring.

From what I've seen in these posts, the consensus seems to be that neither school dress codes nor uniforms are the problem, so much as the lack of consistently fair policy enforcement of such codes by school officials.

I would say that that particular issue needs to addressed, and effective means of ensuring that school dress code policy enforcement is fairly implemented come up with.

I would also say that smaller school and classroom sizes, where a lot of the kinds of bad behaviour that one sees in various schools, public or private, would be an even bigger aid in ensuring that kids get the best possible education, but that's a topic for another forum, no????

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Originally Posted by Donald Rilea

Good point, Jackie.

Personally, though, am still not convinced(BTW, went to Catholic school for nine months, so I did the uniform thing there)that somehow, somewhere, there wouldn't be at least some way for clever kids to get 'round that.

The Armani and Gucci stuff waitin' in the trunks of one's Jag is one way, and there are probably loads of others, too.

School regulations would have to be very strict about what type of uniform, and from where parents or pupils could procure their uniforms, would have to be strictly enforced, even if it meant potentially alienating particularly active or financially contributory parents and their off-spring.

From what I've seen in these posts, the consensus seems to be that neither school dress codes nor uniforms are the problem, so much as the lack of consistently fair policy enforcement of such codes by school officials.

I would say that that particular issue needs to addressed, and effective means of ensuring that school dress code policy enforcement is fairly implemented come up with.

I would also say that smaller school and classroom sizes, where a lot of the kinds of bad behaviour that one sees in various schools, public or private, would be an even bigger aid in ensuring that kids get the best possible education, but that's a topic for another forum, no????

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I am undecided on the issue as well. One would really have to see it work in practice. Obviously, there have been mixed results. How you would come up with objective criteria applied by admins is the real difficulty.

I would think smaller class sizes would help. I see it as two separate phenomena, however. Kids are going to have to deal with schoolmates as a whole regardless.

JT

YES! Smaller classes would be a vast improvement on the school system here in the states. I remember when I started school in the late 80's and there were like 25 students to every teacher/teacher's aide pair. By the 7th grade there were 40 students to every teacher, every hour (period), making learning anything very difficult. It also made the curriculum very stale and cookie cutter.

Again, YES! The problem with the dress codes (despite their ridiculous specifications) is the enforcement. However, looking at the fact that so many ppl who commit major crimes are allowed to slide against the LAWS becasue of preferential treatment based on social status and cash flow, how in the hell do we think we're going to be able to enforce something that is essentially trivial like a dress code?

"the reason academic fights are so cut throat is becasue the stakes are so low." (yes i'm paraphrasing)

~K

Keiko: As my dad likes to say, "You betchum, Red Ryder!!!".

That's the bleeding rub, ain't it???? Where to start and how to make the changes needed in this culture, so that people at least are both actually and seen to be treated fairly by authorities at all levels.

And THAT discussion alone could take up so many forum threads, it wouldn't be funny in the least.

So..... Tennis, anyone?????;)

I could go on about the whole purpose of dress codes and the whole thing of conformity. Then again the whole corporate machine aside, Focus never goes straight to education merely controlling what our kids look like or what they need to think not any thing useful like actually useful. Then again I could go on forever. And to think we could be reading a book right now.

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Originally Posted by a_small_death

I could go on about the whole purpose of dress codes and the whole thing of conformity. Then again the whole corporate machine aside, Focus never goes straight to education merely controlling what our kids look like or what they need to think not any thing useful like actually useful. Then again I could go on forever. And to think we could be reading a book right now.

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That is a critique of mass society I operated from for years. The thing being: I tend to find capitalism does not work on a principle of conformity. It is more a quest for distinction (albeit usually a boorish one involving more and better attire, cars, houses etc than the neighbors).

Thus in school uniforms, I think some of us see the *possibility* of calling a truce to this quest at least for the school day. I think kids are not being taught properly as a result of dumbing down the curriculum. I would place the blame on the "self-esteem" movement and passing kids to higher grades when they can't read so noone feels bad about themselves. We operate from an egalitarianism that does not exist in practice (the strictly public schools seem to anyways)

So yes and no. And we probably should be reading a book.:thumb:

JT

It really bothers me in the city I live, there are some Jr. High schools that don't allow body piercings on students and make them take them off, no matter what the parent wants.

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Originally Posted by Thistle Harlequin

It really bothers me in the city I live, there are some Jr. High schools that don't allow body piercings on students and make them take them off, no matter what the parent wants.

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Damn. That's another good point against dress codes. Piercings should be allowed imo. It is subjective enforcement yet again. Ugh. Humans.

JT

I went to a private school for about two years where we were forced to wear uniforms. We were made to buy them all at the same store get the same cut, etc. I did NOTHING to change this uniform and yet, somehow, SOMEHOW, I was always sent home with a dress-code infraction...Later on they told me it was because my HAIR was too SHORT and when I'd go to put my backpack on, you could see my bra-strap for .005 seconds O.o

Ouch. Sorry that happened to you, ObscureZan.

It's bloody Mickey Mouse interpretations of regulations and not telling people until far too late that always drives me mad.

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Originally Posted by Donald Rilea

Ouch. Sorry that happened to you, ObscureZan.

It's bloody Mickey Mouse interpretations of regulations and not telling people until far too late that always drives me mad.

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Meeee Tooo~ Then later later I found out that they just didn't plain like me 'cause I didn't go to their church and they thought I was evil because I liked Japanese things O.o For a bunch of people proclaiming to 'love everybody' they were awful racist and closed minded

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Originally Posted by ObscureZan

Meeee Tooo~ Then later later I found out that they just didn't plain like me 'cause I didn't go to their church and they thought I was evil because I liked Japanese things O.o For a bunch of people proclaiming to 'love everybody' they were awful racist and closed minded

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Sadly enough, in just about any faith, one can find believers who, through their words and deeds, disgrace their faith and everything it stands for.

Then, there are those believers who at least try to live up to the tenets of their faith.

Just sorry that some of the most important formative years of your life were spent with the former, who value power, conformity and a culturally narrow reading of the world, and I hope that, as you go through the rest of your life, you find more of the latter.

A honourable person, of whatever belief system, is a treasure indeed. As for those who aren't, may you have as little to do with them as you possibly can.

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Originally Posted by Donald Rilea

Sadly enough, in just about any faith, one can find believers who, through their words and deeds, disgrace their faith and everything it stands for.

Then, there are those believers who at least try to live up to the tenets of their faith.

Just sorry that some of the most important formative years of your life were spent with the former, who value power, conformity and a culturally narrow reading of the world, and I hope that, as you go through the rest of your life, you find more of the latter.

A honourable person, of whatever belief system, is a treasure indeed. As for those who aren't, may you have as little to do with them as you possibly can.

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Thank you Mr. Rilea, may you have as little to do with them as you possibly can as well +^_^+

I do my best, Ms. Zan, and thank you.