Define Tolerance.

Being a goofwad, it always interests me when words seem to have a more ubiquitous meaning than I first assume.

What does tolerance mean to you in an individual v. social and political context?

I am often surprised how this word is used.

My definition of tolerance would be fairly formalistic: One should not discriminate based on race, gender, creed, sexual "preference", disability or other such "categories".

I am not sure I would necessarily apply the word "tolerance" when speaking of individual likes and dislikes.

In a formalistic sense, I am very tolerant. At the same time, I am very opinionated and tend towards strong preferences for "this" over "that".

Does anyone have a take on how the word tolerance is used these days? I'm outlining a thesis and antithesis. Where would a synthesis of individual and social tolerance lie for you?

JT

P.S. I should have added: I don't consider myself as "tolerant" beyond the formalistic sense. It's the word definition I'm after.:thumb:

JT

Tolerance is the consideration of the fact that the chick driving a SUV whom is too small to see over the steering wheel and is intent on hitting me, since we made eye contact, is someone's child and I should put my water bottle, keys and hatred back in my purse and smile sweetly while I regard in silence her stupidity and pause to feel sympathy for her short comings as I shake my head and keep walking through the crosswalk.

That is tolerance.

Mouthing something along four letter verbage is the sweet revenge.

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Originally Posted by Michelle Aston

Tolerance is the consideration of the fact that the chick driving a SUV whom is too small to see over the steering wheel and is intent on hitting me, since we made eye contact, is someone's child and I should put my water bottle, keys and hatred back in my purse and smile sweetly while I regard in silence her stupidity and pause to feel sympathy for her short comings as I shake my head and keep walking through the crosswalk.

That is tolerance.

Mouthing something along four letter verbage is the sweet revenge.

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I would be tolerant in that sense. So basically: Tolerance, to you, is taking into account the humanity of the individual doing something potentially dangerous?

JT

tolerance = charity

Especially within the constraints of a religious subtext, with the consideration of endurance (of torture).

I love this shit, ate it up in college. Bring it on baby!

Nah, its torture for me to watch her shortcomings and I must endure.

If I was religious, my inaction would be bring me closer to the Lord. But since I am not, its just another notch in my karmic belt.

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Originally Posted by Michelle Aston

tolerance = charity

Especially within the constraints of a religious subtext, with the consideration of endurance (of torture).

I love this shit, ate it up in college. Bring it on baby!

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haha damn. You're making me feel more tolerant than I possibly actually am. I am charitable in the sense of formally giving to charities.

JT

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Originally Posted by Michelle Aston

Nah, its torture for me to watch her shortcomings and I must endure.

If I was religious, my inaction would be bring me closer to the Lord. But since I am not, its just another notch in my karmic belt.

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ah k. I would probably tend to see the same event *purely* in karmic terms. I would not, for example, interact with this lady if I saw her at a cafe later. I would probably leave.

JT

Ah, if you really want to play ball, you engage her with a compliment and buy her lunch.

Those pesky Scientologists have this one nailed tight.

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Originally Posted by Michelle Aston

Ah, if you really want to play ball, you engage her with a compliment and buy her lunch.

Those pesky Scientologists have this one nailed tight.

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I don't even approach that level of tolerance vis a vis someone who had nearly killed me. If anything, she should buy me lunch.

JT

To me it means love and forgiveness. Tolerating stupidity is one of the harder things in life.

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

To me it means love and forgiveness. Tolerating stupidity is one of the harder things in life.

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So: If I simply allow folks to act in manners I consider foolish, I have met the standard for a tolerant person? If I say something though?

JT

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

So: If I simply allow folks to act in manners I consider foolish, I have met the standard for a tolerant person? If I say something though?

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No not really I mean accepting that people aren't going to think the same way you do. Sure you can say something, engage them in a debate about it, make them think. But at the end of the day accept that they have the right to be an idiot. :1orglaugh Thats the tough bit.

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

No not really I mean accepting that people aren't going to think the same way you do. Sure you can say something, engage them in a debate about it, make them think. But at the end of the day accept that they have the right to be an idiot. :1orglaugh Thats the tough bit.

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hehe so accepting people are flawed = tolerance? Would that include tolerating intolerance? Let's say: I am of a minority race. I walk down the street minding my own affairs. A man walking the other way uses a racial pejorative and eyes me. Yet, he does not seem to present an immediate physical threat. As a tolerant person, what can I do (or not do)?

JT

Great quote from a BBC drama.

Some dude was talking about not really giving a rat's ass what some other religion did.

The main character said "that isn't tolerance, that's indifference."

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Great quote from a BBC drama.

Some dude was talking about not really giving a rat's ass what some other religion did.

The main character said "that isn't tolerance, that's indifference."

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Ok. So you're speaking to some guy in a cafe. It's just a cordial exchange. Suddenly, you see he's wearing symbolism very specific to the religion you don't agree with. It is beyond a reasonable doubt that he engages in just those activities you speak of. He does not appear to be a physical threat. What would a tolerant person do?

JT

What I do.

Express your objection to the belief in intellectual terms, but inform said person you honour his or her right to hold belief in same.

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

hehe so accepting people are flawed = tolerance? Would that include tolerating intolerance? Let's say: I am of a minority race. I walk down the street minding my own affairs. A man walking the other way uses a racial pejorative and eyes me. Yet, he does not seem to present an immediate physical threat. As a tolerant person, what can I do (or not do)?

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No there are some things that even as a tolerant person you shouldn't have to put up with. What would I do, well last time I got into that with someone I ended up yelling at them so maybe I'm not quite the person to ask. Someone called a friend something not to nice so I started calling them every freaking immature name I could think of. Didn't know I had it in me really.

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

Ok. So you're speaking to some guy in a cafe. It's just a cordial exchange. Suddenly, you see he's wearing symbolism very specific to the religion you don't agree with. It is beyond a reasonable doubt that he engages in just those activities you speak of. He does not appear to be a physical threat. What would a tolerant person do?

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Well it takes all kinds so if you really want to go to Church because some guy 2000 years ago told you to go for it. I just heard a podcast today where some guy said if your religion tells you to eat dirt and lick rocks ... go for it, I'll just try to find some other common ground with you. Strangely I agree with him.

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

No there are some things that even as a tolerant person you shouldn't have to put up with. What would I do, well last time I got into that with someone I ended up yelling at them so maybe I'm not quite the person to ask. Someone called a friend something not to nice so I started calling them every freaking immature name I could think of. Didn't know I had it in me really.

Well it takes all kinds so if you really want to go to Church because some guy 2000 years ago told you to go for it. I just heard a podcast today where some guy said if your religion tells you to eat dirt and lick rocks ... go for it, I'll just try to find some other common ground with you. Strangely I agree with him.

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hehehe would you consider yourself a tolerant person based on the first incident?

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

What I do.

Express your objection to the belief in intellectual terms, but inform said person you honour his or her right to hold belief in same.

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Fair enough.

Tolerance to me is the freedom to disagree with something without going up and trying to physically change a person. You can disagree, and tell them you disagree. If they wish to dicuss with you why you think in such a manner; then talk.

But being outwardly violent/assholish or showing no respect for a persons decision? Then thats pretty lame and shows a complete lack of tolerance.

Example: Say person A disliked homosexuality. Person B was a homosexual.

B: Hey A, want to go with me to the gay bar?
A: No thank you B, I don't agree with homosexuality and would not enjoy myself there
B: Why do you not like homosexuals A?

AB have intelligent discussion, perhaps gaining an understanding or atleast a better respect for eachother.

Whats not Tolerance:

B: Hey A, want to go with me to a gay bar?
A: Woah..FUCK YOU B..you think im a faggot? *punches in face* OWNED FAGLORD..lemme get some gas to burn down this place of rampant buttsex.

etc.

I'd change one thing, but

you think im a faggot? *punches in face* PWNT FAGLORD

is turning into a sig

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Originally Posted by Velvet-Tongue

Tolerance to me is the freedom to disagree with something without going up and trying to physically change a person. You can disagree, and tell them you disagree. If they wish to dicuss with you why you think in such a manner; then talk.

But being outwardly violent/assholish or showing no respect for a persons decision? Then thats pretty lame and shows a complete lack of tolerance.

Example: Say person A disliked homosexuality. Person B was a homosexual.

B: Hey A, want to go with me to the gay bar?
A: No thank you B, I don't agree with homosexuality and would not enjoy myself there
B: Why do you not like homosexuals A?

AB have intelligent discussion, perhaps gaining an understanding or atleast a better respect for eachother.

Whats not Tolerance:

B: Hey A, want to go with me to a gay bar?
A: Woah..FUCK YOU B..you think im a faggot? *punches in face* OWNED FAGLORD..lemme get some gas to burn down this place of rampant buttsex.

etc.

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So as long as one doesn't take a swing or a display of blatant disrespect, one is being tolerant?

What I would do in a related situation: Laugh at the homophobe and walk away. Am I intolerant if I openly just don't bother debating some joker? In many regards, I don't care what most people think. It only comes up when I see the potential for bringing people to my viewpoints. The man's homophobia would be of no interest me. I would label him an idiot and walk away. Is this intolerant of me?

JT

Anyways, I think my thesis is being confirmed by virtually every poster here. Tolerance is clearly closer to a code of social conduct than an actual human virtue. In every hypothetical mentioned, a show of tolerance may or may not relate to an inner virtue of justice (charity being the one exception I'm seeing)

As long as I don't act on opprobrium (or say I diapprove), I would seem to meet the baseline standard of tolerance. I do meet this standard. I do not know if it always the just course of action, however. For me, it is simply inexpedient to deal with every malady my fellow humans may serve up. I need to stay focused only on those areas in which I can make a positive change.

Your Benevolent Misanthropist,

Jackie T

tolerance is the ability to let someone know that despite the things that you don't like about them(and that could be anything) you are willing to get past that to find something about them that you do like so you can accept them as a fellow human being like yourself

that about sums it up for me

and yes it is a human virtue. Animals accept, they don't tolerate

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

tolerance is the ability to let someone know that despite the things that you don't like about them(and that could be anything) you are willing to get past that to find something about them that you do like so you can accept them as a fellow human being like yourself

that about sums it up for me

and yes it is a human virtue. Animals accept, they don't tolerate

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Would the tolerance of one who falls into my formal definition of intolerance be virtuous? ie Such and such is a racist but ... I think tolerance is a good thing and necessary for civil society to operate. In and of itself, I do not see it as a core human virtue. I do understand where you are coming from though.

JT

I disagree, it is a core human virtue especialy in the areas of racism. Without it, human beings would have wiped themselves out a very long time ago

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

hehehe would you consider yourself a tolerant person based on the first incident?

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Interestingly I put this question to my lovely husband he came back with the definition "Permitted variation in dimension or specification"

So yes I would consider myself tolerant as their behavior was outside of the permitted norm!

Ha!

Ok ok I'm grasping at straws here, no I am not tolerant at all I hate stupidity and have no time for people who pick on those who are smaller than them. They make me mad and insane and I can't walk away, I have to say something, I could walk away but nooooo I have to go in and fight for the underdog. Always.

Also tolerance is a tool humans use to define thier individual moral boundaries

I bet debates on tolerance have probably caused more wars than anything else

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

Interestingly I put this question to my lovely husband he came back with the definition "Permitted variation in dimension or specification"

So yes I would consider myself tolerant as their behavior was outside of the permitted norm!

Ha!

Ok ok I'm grasping at straws here, no I am not tolerant at all I hate stupidity and have no time for people who pick on those who are smaller than them. They make me mad and insane and I can't walk away, I have to say something, I could walk away but nooooo I have to go in and fight for the underdog. Always.

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haha. I wouldn't consider myself tolerant in those situations either.

JT

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

I disagree, it is a core human virtue especialy in the areas of racism. Without it, human beings would have wiped themselves out a very long time ago

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I would see that more as a manifestation of the virtue of justice. It can take the form of tolerance. Having said that, I think human history shows a species that could be considered nearly suicidal.

JT

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

Also tolerance is a tool humans use to define thier individual moral boundaries

I bet debates on tolerance have probably caused more wars than anything else

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I would again consider it justice that defines my moral boundaries. I am willing to fight for those who do face intolerance in the formal sense I mentioned.

Have debates on tolerance been the actual cause of wars? I think back to Neville Chamberlain. I think it is both a collective dynamic that goes beyond intolerance and the appeasement therein that causes and allows wars to proceed. It was certainly debated whether Hitler's invasion of Czechia was something the UK should "tolerate". This is way beyond my original point though.

JT

to define tolerance is impossible,,, but to define the level of stupidity one can tolerate before blowing the whistle is plausible

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Originally Posted by dead_but_twitching

to define tolerance is impossible,,, but to define the level of stupidity one can tolerate before blowing the whistle is plausible

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It would seem to be so. Yet, I hear cries for tolerance every time there is a disagreement. I agree with your second statement. It is plausible.

JT

that south park episode explained it pretty well

tolerance to me is not liking something but not complaining about it

there are some things that should not be tolerated though

its basically a meaningless buzzword these days like drugs or paradigm