Problem, pls fix ~ kthxbai

Ok so you know you go along in life and every day melds into the other. You have certain things that you know to be true and then you wake up one morning and its not true. Nothing is the way it should be and for the life of you, you cannot figure out why everyone around you cannot see that as well.

I'm 35, I was born in England but I'm Canadian now, I'm a woman and I'm kinda ticked at the world. There is something fundamentally wrong here. Believe me Canada doesn't have it all right either but ... well keep reading.

I'm not going to go back very far, after all we only have the attention spans of gnats and yes I include myself in that and I'm tired and grumpy and not feeling well (I have a cold). So I'm sorry if this is unclear or if I rant a bit but from the outside this is what it looks like.

First you get a college kid who gets tasered (but only after he is handcuffed and held down by 6 police officers) for asking a question. Forget everything else ... I'm sorry but thats why he got tasered. Justify it any way you want but recognize that as what it is justification. There was a room full of people who just watched, save one girl who got put down and fast. Has history taught us nothing ... vis ...

Then I see this.

My southern brothers and sisters ... please for the love of anything you consider sacred WAKE UP. The United States who I love would NEVER let this happen. NEVER ... please I can't fix this, I can't go out and rail at your politicians because I'm not a person to them ... I'm just another alien.

I don't know what I'm expecting from you, maybe nothing, maybe just think for a minute about your responsibility to your country and to your ideals. All I know is that its broken, and its beginning to spill out into everything.

You have this democracy ... this system that is set up for the people by the people ... and yet ... where can I start here because this is what breaks my heart. You have prisons that aren't even on your soil because you cannot bear them to be or because you do not want your laws to apply? Either of those options is beyond horrible. You have trials that are held in secret, contrary to everything your justice system tells us it stands for. You send people away from your soil to torture them because your own laws state how terrible and how unreliable that information is. You have people listen in to you, monitor your moves on the internet or at least have the capability to demand that information given any question on your behavior. You have leaders ruling you based on fear, controlling you based on fear.

I'm scared.

Ok ok so I don't know the answer but I know this is wrong, and honestly I think I'll just go hide for a while ... cowardly I know but I also know that there will be quite a few posts of you don't know anything about us, how dare you judge us, you don't know what its like etc. I'm not judging, I'm telling a very dear friend that their behavior is scaring the hell out of me, I'm scared, I can't fix this ... please do something.

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

Ok so you know you go along in life and every day melds into the other. You have certain things that you know to be true and then you wake up one morning and its not true. Nothing is the way it should be and for the life of you, you cannot figure out why everyone around you cannot see that as well.

I'm 35, I was born in England but I'm Canadian now, I'm a woman and I'm kinda ticked at the world. There is something fundamentally wrong here. Believe me Canada doesn't have it all right either but ... well keep reading.

I'm not going to go back very far, after all we only have the attention spans of gnats and yes I include myself in that and I'm tired and grumpy and not feeling well (I have a cold). So I'm sorry if this is unclear or if I rant a bit but from the outside this is what it looks like.

First you get a college kid who gets tasered (but only after he is handcuffed and held down by 6 police officers) for asking a question. Forget everything else ... I'm sorry but thats why he got tasered. Justify it any way you want but recognize that as what it is justification. There was a room full of people who just watched, save one girl who got put down and fast. Has history taught us nothing ... vis ...

Then I see this.

My southern brothers and sisters ... please for the love of anything you consider sacred WAKE UP. The United States who I love would NEVER let this happen. NEVER ... please I can't fix this, I can't go out and rail at your politicians because I'm not a person to them ... I'm just another alien.

I don't know what I'm expecting from you, maybe nothing, maybe just think for a minute about your responsibility to your country and to your ideals. All I know is that its broken, and its beginning to spill out into everything.

You have this democracy ... this system that is set up for the people by the people ... and yet ... where can I start here because this is what breaks my heart. You have prisons that aren't even on your soil because you cannot bear them to be or because you do not want your laws to apply? Either of those options is beyond horrible. You have trials that are held in secret, contrary to everything your justice system tells us it stands for. You send people away from your soil to torture them because your own laws state how terrible and how unreliable that information is. You have people listen in to you, monitor your moves on the internet or at least have the capability to demand that information given any question on your behavior. You have leaders ruling you based on fear, controlling you based on fear.

I'm scared.

Ok ok so I don't know the answer but I know this is wrong, and honestly I think I'll just go hide for a while ... cowardly I know but I also know that there will be quite a few posts of you don't know anything about us, how dare you judge us, you don't know what its like etc. I'm not judging, I'm telling a very dear friend that their behavior is scaring the hell out of me, I'm scared, I can't fix this ... please do something.

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From a legal standpoint: The Executive branch is using a novel reading of the Commander-in-Chief Clause of the Constitution and International Law that allow for the Gitmos, "transfers" of prisoners to Saudi Arabia, etc. If I could unpack this issue properly, I would. Beyond that: If my fellow citizens are being controlled by fear, there is little any one of us can do. What precisely would you recommend?

JT

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

Ok so you know you go along in life and every day melds into the other. You have certain things that you know to be true and then you wake up one morning and its not true. Nothing is the way it should be and for the life of you, you cannot figure out why everyone around you cannot see that as well.



I'm 35, I was born in England but I'm Canadian now, I'm a woman and I'm kinda ticked at the world. There is something fundamentally wrong here. Believe me Canada doesn't have it all right either but ... well keep reading.

I'm not going to go back very far, after all we only have the attention spans of gnats and yes I include myself in that and I'm tired and grumpy and not feeling well (I have a cold). So I'm sorry if this is unclear or if I rant a bit but from the outside this is what it looks like.

First you get a college kid who gets tasered (but only after he is handcuffed and held down by 6 police officers) for asking a question. Forget everything else ... I'm sorry but thats why he got tasered. Justify it any way you want but recognize that as what it is justification. There was a room full of people who just watched, save one girl who got put down and fast. Has history taught us nothing ... vis ...

Then I see this.

My southern brothers and sisters ... please for the love of anything you consider sacred WAKE UP. The United States who I love would NEVER let this happen. NEVER ... please I can't fix this, I can't go out and rail at your politicians because I'm not a person to them ... I'm just another alien.

I don't know what I'm expecting from you, maybe nothing, maybe just think for a minute about your responsibility to your country and to your ideals. All I know is that its broken, and its beginning to spill out into everything.

You have this democracy ... this system that is set up for the people by the people ... and yet ... where can I start here because this is what breaks my heart. You have prisons that aren't even on your soil because you cannot bear them to be or because you do not want your laws to apply? Either of those options is beyond horrible. You have trials that are held in secret, contrary to everything your justice system tells us it stands for. You send people away from your soil to torture them because your own laws state how terrible and how unreliable that information is. You have people listen in to you, monitor your moves on the internet or at least have the capability to demand that information given any question on your behavior. You have leaders ruling you based on fear, controlling you based on fear.

I'm scared.

Ok ok so I don't know the answer but I know this is wrong, and honestly I think I'll just go hide for a while ... cowardly I know but I also know that there will be quite a few posts of you don't know anything about us, how dare you judge us, you don't know what its like etc. I'm not judging, I'm telling a very dear friend that their behavior is scaring the hell out of me, I'm scared, I can't fix this ... please do something.

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Well, Exquisite, I ain't gonna be the Yank tellin' ya you're dead wrong about us and all that, 'cos these developments scare, depress, anger and exhaust me, too.

I wish I could tell ya and everyone else I have all the answers to these problems, and a whole lot more, but, I don't.

I have ideas, sure, like public financing of elections, limiting election campaign seasons to maybe between 6-8 weeks, tops, and other good hoo-ha like that.

There definitely needs to be more organising and mobilising of Yankees who are fed up with the way things have been around here for the past thirty years or so.

But, these problems are pretty damned huge, and they aren't going to fixed overnight, nor even within the next few years.

There's a lot of work to be done, and, sometimes, it's tough knowing just where to start.

For my money, gettin' Georgie-Boy and Pals outta office and endin' the Iraq War would be the first steps. But, there's still more to do after that, and for a long while to come.

Sorry I can't be more reassuring on this score, Exquisite. But, at the very least, I hope it provides some comfort, however scant and cold, to know that you are NOT alone in the way you feel.

There are a fair number of us Yankee Boys and Girls(and, yeah, that includes you Southern-Fried Johnny Rebs, too), who are, at the very least, concerned about these issues and more.

The task we have at hand is finding some solutions that we can at least agree on, and that are practical.

Just wish I could be of more cheer on this score than I am, and am sorry that I'm not right now.

Exquisite they stole the election in 2000, they covered their tracks in 2004 (i've met ken blackwell, and know what kind of person he is) the rest of the world should stop pretending that this is democracy, and just accept that a nation of lawyers has the world's largest stockpile of WMDs.

you can still get away with more stuff in this country than almost anywhere else on Earth... but the 'freedom' shite is a bite naive this late in the game.

Canada's democracy isnt' that hot either, for the record - 10% of the population (QUEBEC) having almost half the vote...

Jesus. That voting video left me flabbergasted. They weren't even sugar-coating it.

*hugs to Buster Friendly and Lady Alias*

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Canada's democracy isn't that hot either, for the record - 10% of the population (QUEBEC) having almost half the vote...

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Is that a defense of that video ... does your thought that Quebec has too many votes for their population make what is captured in this video ok?

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

Believe me Canada doesn't have it all right either but ...

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Quebec's Population = 23.35% - http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/...tm#tab1ftnote1
Percentage of Quebec Votes = 26% - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_House_of_Commons

A little above what they should be but according to the Constitution Act, 1867 they have 7 special cases so that makes sense that they have 2.65% more votes than population. Not enough for me to get in a flap. Thanks though I learned a bit about my country ... never a bad thing. Didn't know about this special cases thing.

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

*hugs to Buster Friendly and Lady Alias*


Is that a defense of that video ... does your thought that Quebec has too many votes for their population make what is captured in this video ok?

Quebec's Population = 23.35% - http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/...tm#tab1ftnote1
Percentage of Quebec Votes = 26% - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_House_of_Commons

A little above what they should be but according to the Constitution Act, 1867 they have 7 special cases so that makes sense that they have 2.65% more votes than population. Not enough for me to get in a flap. Thanks though I learned a bit about my country ... never a bad thing. Didn't know about this special cases thing.

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I stand corrected. Some dude told me they had 50% of the vote.

No, what's in the video is NOT okay.

I used to care about things like that, then I stopped being suprised at all these things because they really don't matter, take that example for instance, if that vote did matter then don't you think everyone would be there guarding thier buttons?

but don't be scared, not over that shit

you live in vancouver?....go visit the state of emperica...the answers to all those questions are there........really

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

I stand corrected. Some dude told me they had 50% of the vote.

No, what's in the video is NOT okay.

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technicaly sometimes they do but that's just cause every so often almost noone else but the french show up at voting day

JT - I don't know what you should do ... thats the hard part but if it were me I guess I'd work on someone's election (someone I believed in), talked to people, send this off to as many local news people as I could find ... at least get people talking about it.

Don - Glad you are thinking about it and yes I agree sometimes it seems as though our political systems need one heck of an overhaul (mine included)

Biker Punk - No worries dude, don't always listen to people ... 'cept me of course ^.~

Mr Karl - I know I hate it I have these rose coloured glasses and I'm convinced that everything should be the way it should. Doesn't it all count? Isn't it all important what about integrity ... small thing but I hate to see it leave our vernacular. I used to visit the States a lot, couple of times a year in fact but as of late I haven't wanted to put up with the crap to get across the border not to mention worry if I'll be pulled off of the plane if they don't like my outfit.

ah dont worry, the human race has an amazing ability to survive despite what it's individual parts do

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

JT - I don't know what you should do ... thats the hard part but if it were me I guess I'd work on someone's election (someone I believed in), talked to people, send this off to as many local news people as I could find ... at least get people talking about it.

Don - Glad you are thinking about it and yes I agree sometimes it seems as though our political systems need one heck of an overhaul (mine included)

Biker Punk - No worries dude, don't always listen to people ... 'cept me of course ^.~

Mr Karl - I know I hate it I have these rose coloured glasses and I'm convinced that everything should be the way it should. Doesn't it all count? Isn't it all important what about integrity ... small thing but I hate to see it leave our vernacular. I used to visit the States a lot, couple of times a year in fact but as of late I haven't wanted to put up with the crap to get across the border not to mention worry if I'll be pulled off of the plane if they don't like my outfit.

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I don't believe in either of the two major parties. I join organizations I believe in. I do what I can. I try to ally with people who want to work towards similar goals. The overall system though, it will probably have to hit bottom before any real changes are made.

I'm actually more anxious about the Ukrainian Election results coming in right now. There's a more tangible difference depending on who wins tonight.

JT

I know we will survive as a race, believe me thats not at issue. I guess my thing is that I believed in the sales job about democracy.

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

I know we will survive as a race, believe me thats not at issue. I guess my thing is that I believed in the sales job about democracy.

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The pendulum will likely swing to the Dems in '08. The Republicans are having to defend twice as many Senate seats and have no chance in the House of Representatives. People say Giuliani can win. He can't. Social Conservatives will sit home if he gets the nomination. None of the other candidates are electable. Unless there is a major surprise, I predict the Dems are gonna sweep. You'll see Clinton style govt as opposed to Bush. Bush is irrelevant already.

I can't say I'm unhappy with the likely result. I simply don't believe in either major party in any real sense.

JT

They did not taser or arrest him for asking a question.

He went up out of turn. Started yelling. Started to politely heckle the speaker. He was using his free speech rights to deny other people theirs by asking multiple questions. The police officers were being given commands by the university.

All they were gonna do is escort him out. Its a common procedure "Guys being a douche bag and starting a scene, he needs to leave. Our setting, our rules". But Mr Martyr syndrome decides this is the best time to make a bigger scene.

He starts yelling, pulling away, failling. The cops move and have to go from a simple escort (since he decided to not go willingly) to an arrest to get him out.

If you notice you can see the officers holding him down, asking him again and again to "stop resisitng". He refuses to listen to the police officers. To get him to calm down enough to handcuff and carry him out what do they do? Do they beat him? No. Do they spray mace in his eyes? No. They use a taser, which is a non lethal and besides 2 pin prick marks it leaves no damage.

Having been tasered before. It does not hurt that fucking back. Oh it hurts don't get me wrong but his dramatic screaming and flailing was self done to make him appear like even more of a martyr.

Fuck the kid, he got what he deserved for being disrespectful and not listening to law enforcement.

This is not a big event, or an attack opn civil liberties. Apparently people seem to forget the massacre of students in red square in China or when the national guard shot students right here in the US. Those were big problems. This is an asshole beign arrested for being an asshole. Two of the officers are now also with out jobs because of people refusing to see the point of view of the law enforcement officers or realize when they're being played by a kid trying to get publicity.

VT - Great that you believe that luv, personally I don't

oh well, could be worse....I could be running things

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

oh well, could be worse....I could be running things

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You're not?? The only thing Canada could do to irk me: Elect that jackass Ignatieff.

JT

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

You're not?? The only thing Canada could do to irk me: Elect that jackass Ignatieff.

JT

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now that'd irk canadians too, he'll probably do good in his own riding....etobijoke

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

now that'd irk canadians too, he'll probably do good in his own riding....etobijoke

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Good. Good. I hate that guy. I thought it was shabby of the Liberal Party to let him parachute into that riding. I won't even go into the issues I have the man. I have no doubt you know some of his views and gaffes. He did win the riding by a narrow margin after the facts came out. He was denied a leadership position, however. I am thankful they at least had that much sense. I found myself openly hoping for the Tories to win (I generally would be indifferent to a Canadian election) Indeed, they won.

JT

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

VT - Great that you believe that luv, personally I don't

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Why do you believe then that he was arrested for just asking a question?

Plenty of other people asked questions and aren't under arrest.

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

Good. Good. I hate that guy. I thought it was shabby of the Liberal Party to let him parachute into that riding. I won't even go into the issues I have the man. I have no doubt you know some of his views and gaffes. He did win the riding by a narrow margin after the facts came out. He was denied a leadership position, however. I am thankful they at least had that much sense. I found myself openly hoping for the Tories to win (I generally would be indifferent to a Canadian election) Indeed, they won.

JT

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Oh no.....theres a guy in the states who knows we don't live in igloos and ride skidoos all year long:1orglaugh your more up on canadian politics than most canadians are

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Originally Posted by Velvet-Tongue

Why do you believe then that he was arrested for just asking a question?

Plenty of other people asked questions and aren't under arrest.

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Ah but they didn't ask the same question did they.

Exquisite: Just wanted to say you're welcome, and thank you kindly, in reply to your thanks to me posted here earlier.

Sorry about the delay in posting this.

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

Oh no.....theres a guy in the states who knows we don't live in igloos and ride skidoos all year long:1orglaugh your more up on canadian politics than most canadians are

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You don't??:1orglaugh Seriously though, it was Ignatieff that really caught my attention. When my Orange Revoultion site was more active, I had a lot of visitors from Canada (some 1-2 Million Ukrainians immigrated there). Other blogs started posting his statements on Ukraine, Yugoslavia, torture, and some other gaffes. We bashed him silly for about a month. Thankfully, the Canadian media was paying attention. His % went down by about 10. He still won, but I know it didn't help the Liberal Party as a whole.

I don't know a lot about Harper. I do know he has renounced any dilly-dallying with social conservatism. I was happy to see you guys purged of Chretien and his corrupt lackeys.

JT

Ignatieff is really just small potatoes.......he's really got no ideas on energy, garbage, what to be done with our natural reasources etc. Harper's ok I guess, doesn't really matter cause canada practicaly runs itself

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

Ah but they didn't ask the same question did they.

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Considering I have not seen the rest of the presentation I can't be sure if they did or not. Regardless, him asking about votes being miscounted or the "secret fraternity" Skull and Bones /tinfoil hat. Which is more then likely nothing more than a frat for rich kids. Wouldent warrant a tackling under the craziest of circumstances.

Its not what he asked but how he acted and asked it. If he had asked the same questions like a polite human being he would have been fine.

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

Ignatieff is really just small potatoes.......he's really got no ideas on energy, garbage, what to be done with our natural reasources etc. Harper's ok I guess, doesn't really matter cause canada practicaly runs itself

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The Judiciary in Canada is pretty sound. It does seem to prevent politicians from murking up a relatively successful formula for a society.

JT

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Originally Posted by Velvet-Tongue

Considering I have not seen the rest of the presentation I can't be sure if they did or not. Regardless, him asking about votes being miscounted or the "secret fraternity" Skull and Bones /tinfoil hat. Which is more then likely nothing more than a frat for rich kids. Wouldent warrant a tackling under the craziest of circumstances.

Its not what he asked but how he acted and asked it. If he had asked the same questions like a polite human being he would have been fine.

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True. This was a sponsored forum with rules. Here's what was bizarre about the kid's questions:

1. He asks why Kerry conceded Ohio
2. He babbles about Kerry and Bush being in Skull and Bones.

He would seem to imply that Kerry colluded with Bush to lose the presidency? The guy made no sense. Kerry has answered this question many times. He conceded Ohio as it was mathematically impossible for him to win even based on the reports of voter fraud.

JT

those were his questions? he got off easy, I was hoping he was asking some sort of interesting question

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Originally Posted by Mr Karl

those were his questions? he got off easy, I was hoping he was asking some sort of interesting question

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I was surprised. He was going off on a rant in between. Less is more in those situations. You may lead in with a softball, then ask the most brutal question. Keep your composure. You may make the news, but not as some knee nipper saying "Don't tase me bro". The problems in the U.S. are acute and systemic. I think this incident was symbolic of that. I don't think it it had any real meaning though. The cuffs were on or they weren't. That will be the whole ball game in court. I could not tell if they were.

JT