do you think columbus was evil or a hero?

from rocky mountain news

83 protesters arrested at Columbus Day Parade
By Associated Press
October 6, 2007

Protesters blocked the Columbus Day Parade route in Denver Saturday and poured a bucket filled with fake blood and dismembered baby dolls onto the street as police arrested 83 people, including American Indian Movement activist Russell Means.

At least 10 of those arrested face resisting arrest charges, while most face charges of blocking a parade route and/or interfering with a peaceful assembly, Denver Police spokesman Sonny Jackson said. The parade through downtown Denver was delayed about an hour.

George Vendegnia, one of the organizers of the parade, said the protest and delay was planned for and caused minimal disruption.

"With this protest, it's just motivating people more to be back next year and exercise their right to participate in an American holiday," Vendegnia said.

No serious injuries were reported to either protesters or police.

Among those seen being led away in handcuffs was Glenn Morris, an associate professor of political science at the University of Colorado and one of the organizers of the All Nations/Four Directions March, a march in protest of the parade.

Denver's parade, which was started in 1907, has a troubled history of arrests and confrontations between Columbus supporters and detractors. Protesters have called him a slave trader who touched off centuries of genocide and oppression against native people. Supporters say he was a brave explorer who opened a new world and the parade is an American holiday to be celebrated.

Colorado is credited with being the first to make Columbus Day a state holiday, which later became a federal holiday. The parade is touted as being one of the first in honor of Columbus.

Morris and other organizers earlier this week said they were angered with last year's use of re-enactors of a 19th century U.S. Army Cavalry unit to carry the flag before the start of the parade. They likened the use of the soldiers, who wore uniforms similar to those used during the Indian Wars of the late 1800s, to nooses used to intimate black students in the central Louisiana town of Jena.

A message left for Morris was not immediately returned.

Vendegnia said the re-enactors did not participate this year because of a scheduling conflict.

he was a guy who sailed a boat real far and then came back, I don't see him as evil or a hero

I don't see him as either as well. I don't see him worthy of a holiday or protest.

JT

I've always wondered about that

Your meal was manufactured
just to stain my dish.
Socks hang from the shower rod
like sad white fish.

I bathe her face in piss
for the flies about her fear it.
I penetrate her anus
with a civilizing spirit.

Oh, Columbus
Hello, Columbus...

Hello, Columbus.
Hello, Columbus.
Hello, Columbus.
Ave Columbus!

Your life was manufactured
just to feed my wish.
Socks hang from the shower rod
like slaughtered savages.

I would make love to you
if I only knew where my gun
went.
Love lives infinitely
when stripped of mutual consent.

--David E. Williams, "Hello Columbus"

Sounds like a fun parade.

Just another American hero who happened to be a rapist, we seem to have a lot of those..

I don't consider him evil. That would be the same as saying that the people that call him a hero are evil because they acurately recognize that every facet of our present society is based on genocide, and they hold the belief that our present society isn't so bad, in fact most think it's pretty good. And you can't really hold that against them.

:rolleyes: Wow. Just wow. Running out of things to protest?

From what very little I know about Columbus and his subsequent career after landing on Cat Island(which, incidentally, is where Sidney Poitier came from)and in Hispaniola(to-day's Haiti and the Dominican Republic), I would say his role is a mixed one.

I don't recall him trading in slaves at all. But, certainly in his role as both discoverer(from the European perspective)and first governor of Hispaniola, Columbus certainly enabled the Spanish exploitation and eventual extermination of the native Arawak and Carib peoples.

I wouldn't put him in the same class as Hernan Cortez or Francisco Pizarro, who devastated the Mexica(Aztec)and Inca cultures in Mexico and Peru, respectively.

But, his role in the history of the Americas is decidedly a more mixed one than either his admirers or detractors like to believe.

BTW, since he never set foot on the North American continent, it does seem kinda silly that the US, of all places, should honour him with a holiday.

However, and I think it was around 1912 or so that Columbus Day was made an official holiday here, there was a campaign launched by segments of the Italian-American community to have the day made a holiday, and so, it was.

Could be wrong on that score.

Was there something morally and inherently wrong with the Moors invading Spain, or with Spain invading the Americas?

The borders we have are generally the result of military actions or convenient geography. Welcome to the way of the world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inox

Was there something morally and inherently wrong with the Moors invading Spain, or with Spain invading the Americas?

The borders we have are generally the result of military actions or convenient geography. Welcome to the way of the world.

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No doubt. I just wish we'd stop making the pretense of codification vis a vis international law. Iraq was never a country. Partition it into three. Partition Kosovo into two. Some folks just can't get along, fences make nice neighbors.

JT