Re: Questions to all the models and photographers
I will add my experiences here...
First of all, I tend to come to the bargaining table with photographers with the following deal...
I bring a ton of costumes, props, concepts, makeup, fx, location, etc, and they get to have a really cool photo shoot, that they would be hard-pressed to come up with on their own. And in exchange, I get a copy of the raw images. But that's mainly for my own use. The way it usually works, is that they get to claim the photograph as their own, and they get to use them on their website, and get any money they can make from it. That's fine with me. I don't need or want to earn anything off the images. I just want a copy for my own use. Generally, what the photographer does for their editing, and color corrections, is better than what I can do on my own. So I tend to use their image, and give them full credit. So that if people like the image that was created, they can seek that photographer out for their own work. I simply get credit for being the model and for providing the costumes.
And as far as hints for how to do your own shoots indoors, one really cheap and basic setup I use, is to get a bunch of clip lights at the hardware store.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg
And then get a bunch of dimmers for them...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA280_.jpg
And a bunch of colored light bulbs...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L500_SS75_.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...L500_SS75_.jpg
Digital cameras are so sensitive nowadays, that you don't need high-powered flash units to capture a decent image. And the advantage to using actual lights, is that you can see what the scene is looking like. You can just slide the dimmers up and down, and get a nice balance.
Re: Questions to all the models and photographers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
Hey Raza, I think some of the difficulty you might be having is that the way you would value what someone contributes is different from the way they might value what they are contributing. I, for example, could potentially be hired to do a creative shoot that I was not the creative director for. I would actually want to charge a LOT more to hand over raw unedited images at the end of the day. That might sound strange, but photographic processing is artistically and professionally very important to a lot of photographers. The tree above reminds me that even Ansel Adams wouldn't be who is is today if it were not for some of the amazingly detailed technical photo processing he had done to his shots, post actually snapping the shutter. You might think you are asking less of someone, when in fact you are asking a lot more. You also might feel that putting any sort of words on the images is something you object to, as it clutters the shot, but a lot of photographers have learned that if they don't put the credit actually on the image, their work will almost certainly be stolen and used for really inappropriate things. They feel a certain natural inclination or responsibility to protect against this, so the offer of a text credit off the images just sounds almost like a threat. Without the words on the image, the thief can easily attempt to claim there was just no way they could have known it wasn't public domain or some such nonsense, etc. Understanding the needs of the people you are working with will help you organize the efforts of your creative partners.
So again it's about the distinction between what I ask of them as a person in time and effort as we can measure it by a universal standard, and what I'm asking them in their role as 'a photographer', in professional faux pas and the relinquishing of traditionally expected privileges.
I don't think in these terms, and honestly have no desire to start. Role divisions, 'inappropriate uses', 'theft' of information - these things are meaningless to how I view the world. That doesn't mean I'll hold it against people quoting them as a reason not to work with me, but chances are I'm just gonna say "Ok, no deal then."
So, I think I'm just going to accept that I probably won't be working with any professional photographer third parties and focus on learning the trade myself. I'd rather do things my way on my own than adapt to rationales I don't believe in.
Re: Questions to all the models and photographers
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeathKnight
I will add my experiences here...
First of all, I tend to come to the bargaining table with photographers with the following deal...
I bring a ton of costumes, props, concepts, makeup, fx, location, etc, and they get to have a really cool photo shoot, that they would be hard-pressed to come up with on their own. And in exchange, I get a copy of the raw images. But that's mainly for my own use. The way it usually works, is that they get to claim the photograph as their own, and they get to use them on their website, and get any money they can make from it. That's fine with me. I don't need or want to earn anything off the images. I just want a copy for my own use. Generally, what the photographer does for their editing, and color corrections, is better than what I can do on my own. So I tend to use their image, and give them full credit. So that if people like the image that was created, they can seek that photographer out for their own work. I simply get credit for being the model and for providing the costumes.
Sounds reasonable. Looks like the same things aren't necessarily a big deal to all photographers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDeathKnight
This is useful, thanks.
Re: Questions to all the models and photographers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raza
So again it's about the distinction between what I ask of them as a person in time and effort as we can measure it by a universal standard, and what I'm asking them in their role as 'a photographer', in professional faux pas and the relinquishing of traditionally expected privileges.
I don't think in these terms, and honestly have no desire to start. Role divisions, 'inappropriate uses', 'theft' of information - these things are meaningless to how I view the world. That doesn't mean I'll hold it against people quoting them as a reason not to work with me, but chances are I'm just gonna say "Ok, no deal then."
So, I think I'm just going to accept that I probably won't be working with any professional photographer third parties and focus on learning the trade myself. I'd rather do things my way on my own than adapt to rationales I don't believe in.
Well, we are just trying to help. I'm certainly not saying you couldn't find someone, but perhaps if you could understand another person's perspective it might make things go easier. I'm not telling you to change your world view.
That said, I think your solution makes sense. I didn't want to be a photographer, but I knew what I wanted on the page and ultimately felt that I had to pick up the camera myself to reliably be able to create it. It'd LOVE to be able to wear less hats in what I do, but the reality is, I have to fill a lot of roles to achieve my goals.
Re: Questions to all the models and photographers
I'd do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cafe_Post_Mortem
You bring hair and makeup. This is a good thing, but unless you are also doing hair and makeup for the photographer's other projects, it is still them working for your project and getting nothing in return.
That's a point. You can do it, might as well bargain with it...
Re: Questions to all the models and photographers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
Well, we are just trying to help. I'm certainly not saying you couldn't find someone, but perhaps if you could understand another person's perspective it might make things go easier. I'm not telling you to change your world view.
Of course; I started this thread to ask those very questions; you guys are hardly accountable for how well (or little) I like the answers. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForrestBlack
That said, I think your solution makes sense. I didn't want to be a photographer, but I knew what I wanted on the page and ultimately felt that I had to pick up the camera myself to reliably be able to create it. It'd LOVE to be able to wear less hats in what I do, but the reality is, I have to fill a lot of roles to achieve my goals.
I actually find it fulfilling to do a lot of different things and generally be as self sufficient as manageable; doing it myself was my first choice. Still, when your result relies on you doing a whole sequence of different things, it doesn't pay to be very good at one or two only to afflict it all with the flimsy execution of another.
Re: Questions to all the models and photographers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexbeast
I'd do it.
Awesome!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexbeast
That's a point. You can do it, might as well bargain with it...
I'm not sure our makeup skills are very sellable. We excel at cheap improvisations and outlandish ideas, but the execution is only basic sensibility. Academy trained 'grimagists' - those people that carry around huge makeup cases with fourty different shades of brown, know exactly which nr foundation will fail to make you any paler and always make the same huge multi miscolored panda marks of metalic eyeshadow with actually somewhat impressive gradual edges around your eyes - are everywhere in our local altmodel crowd, probably creating an expectation of what the ability to 'do makeup' means that wouldn't overlap much with ours.
