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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Michelle Aston
...the more offensive I am it works in my favor...
Which only works because of your job - if you flipped burgers or sat reception for First National there'd be a little more pressure to "curtail your proactive personal expressionism in favor of our customer-centric brand homogeny", aka "get your fucking hair cut, you sick freak".
I've only been homogenised once (though I can't think why anyone would object to a laughing skull print on a white coat.. all the patients liked it...) and now I'm tucked into our industry where standing out is positively expected, I do have sympathy for those who get copies of "Corporate Policy Amendment 2007J: Cessation of the Sarcastic Use of Beards" in their email every morning.
So if we have International Talk Like A Pirate Day, why don't we have International Dress Like A Goth Day? Sometime in the summer so there's no terrible clash of rain and hairspray...
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
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Originally Posted by gothic rose
as a member of one of the younger generations
i constanly get called a poser for dressing goth
im cyber goth
and people dont get how i can be goth and include bright colors...
i always get called emo or somthing offensive to me
and that makes me not wanna dress how i love to dress
and just wear jeans and a tee-shirt
indivdiuality is no longer embraced unless its the exact copy of "individuality" that everyone one else has
its sad being a teen(im 18) in todays society
Firstly, it's been sad being a teen in every generation.
Secondly, if they don't realize you can wear bright colors and be Goth, then they don't really understand Goth. And if they also consider themselves Goth, I feel very sad for them
Thirdly, dress the way you want to dress, unless you're restricted by a dress code (work, school).
Fourthly, Emo is becoming what people stereotypically consider to be Goth, though Goth has never really been what people stereotypically consider Goth to be.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Mindgames
So if we have International Talk Like A Pirate Day, why don't we have International Dress Like A Goth Day? Sometime in the summer so there's no terrible clash of rain and hairspray...
But, the common populace have the wrong idea of what Goth looks like. Just go to a Halloween Superstore and look at the costumes they have in their 'Goth' section.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Mindgames
Which only works because of your job - if you flipped burgers or sat reception for First National there'd be a little more pressure to "curtail your proactive personal expressionism in favor of our customer-centric brand homogeny", aka "get your fucking hair cut, you sick freak".
I've only been homogenised once (though I can't think why anyone would object to a laughing skull print on a white coat.. all the patients liked it...) and now I'm tucked into our industry where standing out is positively expected, I do have sympathy for those who get copies of "Corporate Policy Amendment 2007J: Cessation of the Sarcastic Use of Beards" in their email every morning.
So if we have International Talk Like A Pirate Day, why don't we have International Dress Like A Goth Day? Sometime in the summer so there's no terrible clash of rain and hairspray...
that wopuild never work for summer out here, too hot. it shoudl e aroud autumn, mayb clser to halloeen being as september is nationa pagan awareness month and all.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
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Originally Posted by HeadlessBill
Firstly, it's been sad being a teen in every generation.
Secondly, if they don't realize you can wear bright colors and be Goth, then they don't really understand Goth. And if they also consider themselves Goth, I feel very sad for them
Thirdly, dress the way you want to dress, unless you're restricted by a dress code (work, school).
Fourthly, Emo is becoming what people stereotypically consider to be Goth, though Goth has never really been what people stereotypically consider Goth to be.
The semantic switch on your 4th point is darkly amusing (in that it is true as well):1orglaugh :thumb:
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothic rose
as a member of one of the younger generations
i constanly get called a poser for dressing goth
im cyber goth
and people dont get how i can be goth and include bright colors...
i always get called emo or somthing offensive to me
and that makes me not wanna dress how i love to dress
and just wear jeans and a tee-shirt
indivdiuality is no longer embraced unless its the exact copy of "individuality" that everyone one else has
its sad being a teen(im 18) in todays society
Repeat this Mantra: Fuck em if they can't take a joke.
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
Basically, "Goth" is less of a subculture (despite the fact that many "Goths" claim it to be) and more of a "scene". The difference is, a culture, be it even a sub- or counter-culture, grows and evolves, while a "scene" is stagnant and simply gets "rediscovered" and "revived" every so often. Goth is most definitely a "scene" in that respect -- heck, listen to all the "new" bands coming from either of the U$ coasts -- they all sound the same, and most of them sound just like some other bands that came about ten or so years ago and did it ten times better. The whole "cybergoth" trend isn't really an evolution, as it's just pretty much Goths who discovered Gary Numan and neon spandex from the Salvation Army 1980's box -- again, it's merely revival of something from twenty years ago, and not even "goth" from twenty years ago (if it was, they'd be listening to Sisters of Mercy, Siouxsie and The Cult), and calling it "goth" in an effort to feign scene evolution.
I got bored with the Goth scene and found a culture -- a subculture, but a culture nonetheless.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Jackie T.
ah k. It's larger than a lot of brands go up to though. LS goes to 38". I'm well below that, but I am curious why this market is being ignored.
JT
Because fat guys look silly in PVC and lace.
In fact, fat guys look silly in a lot of things.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
Because fat guys look silly in PVC and lace.
In fact, fat guys look silly in a lot of things.
haha. If they're gonna pony up though, may as well put a few items out. I'd be more worried about not getting repeat customers should the other folks snicker at em.
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Mindgames
Salad-phobic goths have been around since The Cure was still just The Clinical Trial...
Spoken like somebody who has never seen that poster of Bob and Siouxsie -- back when the biggest measurement on his body was the circumference of his backcombed hair.
...but I get what you're saying. What happened to the whole "heroin chic"? You know, when being slender and staying out all night was NOT just for junkies?
Nobody wants to go out to Perversion and see the same crowd that was at Club Chub. Put down the french fries and have the side salad without dressing (or at the very least, with a vinegarette instead of ranch).
When did the Goth look stop being about "looking dead" and start being about eating yourself into an early grave?
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by incog
I don't think most people would consider me to be Gothic at all ever but all subcultures used to dress up more. At least in Los Angeles and most of the places I have toured. Brazil and Japan are both still pretty good.
Yes, but Japan is a consumerist culture that defines people by what they can buy rather than who the person is.
Yeah, the word "otaku" over there is the equivalent to "cat-piss man" over here -- and gamer or other type of nerd who only leaves the house for provisions or to purchase the latest anime DVDs and collectables and gaming stuff, and only if they didn't think ahead to have it delivered. Over here, anime geeks think calling themselves "otaku" is a good thing. They also comminly pronounce "kawaii" as "kuh-WHY" -- Amerikan "Whapanese" are morons.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
When did the Goth look stop being about "looking dead" and start being about eating yourself into an early grave?
totally curious about that too, there are an insane amount of fat goths its actually quite embarassing
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
When did the Goth look stop being about "looking dead" and start being about eating yourself into an early grave?
Dunno. I just want to dress the basturds, you can throw em out of your club after we're done.:1orglaugh :thumb:
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
I don't dress up for work, it's just more practical to wear combat pants and a t-shirt.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Jackie T.
haha. If they're gonna pony up though, may as well put a few items out. I'd be more worried about not getting repeat customers should the other folks snicker at em.
JT
Very few "alternative" looks actually work as well for big or fat guys as they do for skinny guys -- and skinny guys give me a stiffy, so perhaps I'm biased, but here is what works for big guys:
The "Braveheart"/Celtic pagan look: Seriously. Kilts work for everybody. Men. Women. Fat. Attractive--I mean, Skinny. This is possibly the only "look" that works for fat guys where a shirt is optional, too. For extra points, get natural dreadlocks (ie: lose the comb) and paint yourself blue. It's Pictish Goth!
Bikers: OK, possibly the only think that doesn't work for skinny guys. Skinny guys can be punks, but skinny biker guys just always look like eight-year-old boys playing "Hell's Angels" -- cute, but only to pervs like me.
Punks: Punks can basically be any size they want. It may not have been called such at the time, but have you seen Pink Flamingos and Female Trouble? Divine and Edith Massey totally helped invent the "punk" look.
Renne Faire: The Henry VIII look was created for a fat guy, King Henry VIII. In other words, ditch the Victorian lace and figilleree and get yourself a soft velvet hat and one of those huge jackets. And a turkey leg -- you're already halfway to a heart attack at the age of 35, and are probably diabetic already, anyway.
Psychobilly or Rockabilly: The difference between the two is a mohawk and optional fake blood. Basically. Zombie make-up is optional for psychobillies, no matter what else anybody tells you. Get a pompadour and a bowling shirt, or even just a Reverend Horton Heat shirt and a leather jacket. Just don't try the Teddy Boy look if you wear anything larger than a 38 waistband, or you'll look like a douchebag.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
Quote:
by the time they start expressing a personal theme they've learnt to accept "you don't stand out at work... you don't stand out at school... you....." is the safest way to get your comfy job, comfy house and comfy paycheck. The second issue of course is that goth is expensive to do, compared to the other genres available. Should I get a $10 sweatshirt and be nu-metal or a $300 leather cape?.. hmm... how much is the rent this week?
The first point about school, work, etc is very true. I work in a corporate coffee shop where my hair and the make up, accessories (even headbands), and clothes I often wear aren't technically allowed. Lucky for me I have a great boss who let's me do my own thing - but there's still the fear that head office is going to show up one day and force us to conform to corporate standards.
As for the second point...
Gothic IS expensive, especially "dressed up" gothic. Considering the average person entering the scene is probably around 18-21 and holding a minimum wage job to be able to do goth at all is a challenge.
Right now I try to pick up cheap plain items at the local mall every week we get tips. This means with a little creativity I can pull off a low budget gothic look. I mean really low budget: we're talking $10 leggings, $5 tanks, and making fishnet shirts out of $6 fishnet tights. Using slips for skirts, etc. While this gets me where I need to be all the things I lust after are well over the $60 range, most single items are at least one to two hundred dollars. I can't speak for everyone but I'm sure there's a lot of other young goths out there who feel the same way.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
Spoken like somebody who has never seen that poster of Bob and Siouxsie -- back when the biggest measurement on his body was the circumference of his backcombed hair.
...but I get what you're saying. What happened to the whole "heroin chic"? You know, when being slender and staying out all night was NOT just for junkies?
Nobody wants to go out to Perversion and see the same crowd that was at Club Chub. Put down the french fries and have the side salad without dressing (or at the very least, with a vinegarette instead of ranch).
When did the Goth look stop being about "looking dead" and start being about eating yourself into an early grave?
I kinda like having the stereotypical anglo saxon ponch. it helps protect my bowels in a knife fight. lol
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
Very few "alternative" looks actually work as well for big or fat guys as they do for skinny guys -- and skinny guys give me a stiffy, so perhaps I'm biased, but here is what works for big guys:
The "Braveheart"/Celtic pagan look: Seriously. Kilts work for everybody. Men. Women. Fat. Attractive--I mean, Skinny. This is possibly the only "look" that works for fat guys where a shirt is optional, too. For extra points, get natural dreadlocks (ie: lose the comb) and paint yourself blue. It's Pictish Goth!
Bikers: OK, possibly the only think that doesn't work for skinny guys. Skinny guys can be punks, but skinny biker guys just always look like eight-year-old boys playing "Hell's Angels" -- cute, but only to pervs like me.
Punks: Punks can basically be any size they want. It may not have been called such at the time, but have you seen Pink Flamingos and Female Trouble? Divine and Edith Massey totally helped invent the "punk" look.
Renne Faire: The Henry VIII look was created for a fat guy, King Henry VIII. In other words, ditch the Victorian lace and figilleree and get yourself a soft velvet hat and one of those huge jackets. And a turkey leg -- you're already halfway to a heart attack at the age of 35, and are probably diabetic already, anyway.
Psychobilly or Rockabilly: The difference between the two is a mohawk and optional fake blood. Basically. Zombie make-up is optional for psychobillies, no matter what else anybody tells you. Get a pompadour and a bowling shirt, or even just a Reverend Horton Heat shirt and a leather jacket. Just don't try the Teddy Boy look if you wear anything larger than a 38 waistband, or you'll look like a douchebag.
In terms of pure aesthetics, I would agree with most of what you said. Kilts would be an interesting balloon to float. Seriously though, I'm not even in retail and hear requests for "plus" size guys gear quite a bit of late. Would these looks work in terms of my or your preferences? Probably not. If they want to give it a go though, I figure it would at least help our local "scene" a bit to have our retailers track down what these guys say they want. (Usually seems to revolve more around period clothes) I haven't heard any mention pvc or cyber gear to date.
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosfeary
totally curious about that too, there are an insane amount of fat goths its actually quite embarassing
I think part of it has to do with the fact that, honestly, the waifish look just doesn't look right with a corset -- if you've got nothing to push and squeeze into an hourglass shape, then you're going to look retarded in an article of clothing designed to do such.
And honestly, I don't completely mind fat people as long as they a) know how to dress themselves properly AND b) don't carry themselves like "a fatty". There's a difference between being fat and acting fat. If you're bigger than what's "normally" considered attractive, stand up straight, stop waddling, and ffs, learn what kinds of clothes flatter your body and carry yourself with some semblance of class and poise.
Mae West was a porker, quite frankly. There's a reason Miss Piggy was based on her. But she didn't "act fat" and she didn't "dress fat". Same with Oscar Wilde. The wore clothing that fit well and flattered their bodies, and they carried themselves upright and with some sense dignity -- you don't see that in this whole "fat acceptance" movement today. You just see fatsos shovelling double cheeseburgers and Doritos into their doughy Cabbage Patch doll-like faces and shouting "I'm a valuable person, too!" in-between burps.
I've been thin and I've been fat, but never *once* did I "act like a fat-ass". And even in my "undignified" phase, it wasn't cos I was fat, it's cos I was living on the streets -- and even so, compared to most other homeless, I was Prince William.
Unfortunately, class just seems to be something that you either have or have not. One can learn how to "act classy", but you can put high-heels on a poodle and that still won't make it a hooker.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by malcolm
I kinda like having the stereotypical anglo saxon ponch. it helps protect my bowels in a knife fight. lol
My M.O. is "don't be an ass and get in said knife-fight in the first place."
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
im still going through a transition with my clothes. and its not that i look fat, i look somewhat barrell chested. the only major part of me which isnt big is my arms an thats cus i dont work out at leisure. granted, i have to lift nodachis and claymores an keep em vertically balanced-not to mention broadswords-at work but thats about all the workout my arms get. but i will admit im not fat fat. im a 36 waist nd thats even a litle loose.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by chaosfeary
totally curious about that too, there are an insane amount of fat goths its actually quite embarassing
Why embarassing? Noone is forcing you to fuck them. "Goth" has never been an operative identity to me, but I don't see why one would be embarassed by larger folks getting into it. Dignity can be had by all.
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by chaosfeary
totally curious about that too, there are an insane amount of fat goths its actually quite embarassing
ima fat lil cyber goth chick and damn sexy in the process
got a problem with that!?:mad:
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Jackie T.
Why embarassing? Noone is forcing you to fuck them. "Goth" has never been an operative identity to me, but I don't see why one would be embarassed by larger folks getting into it. Dignity can be had by all.
JT
At least for me, it's not the fact that they're "fat" that's an embarrassment -- it's the fact that they use their fatness as an excuse to dress and act like slobs with no sense of self-respect.
And those fat people who are *so fat* that they can't walk, but instead *waddle* a straight line and "need" an inhaler to toddle twenty feet just to bum a cigarette off me *is* repellent. And if you're so fat that you can't even waddle any-more but instead use a Rascal just to run in for toilet paper at the market, sorry, but either get some much-needed medical intervention or stop shovelling food in your face -- it's not rocket surgery.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by gothic rose
ima fat lil cyber goth chick and damn sexy in the process
got a problem with that!?:mad:
Depends.
Do you "dress fat" (ie: wear clothes that, whether you believe it or not, are unflattering for your body-type) or otherwise "act fat"?
Mae West was "fat" by all definitions, frankly (sorry, Marilyn Monroe is a bad example of "full figured" -- I can pull up several sites that prove she had comparable measurements to Pam Anderson; a size 16 in 1956 is comparable to a modern size 8 or 10); but she looked good, dressed flatteringly, and carried herself with poise and genuine confidence (rather than screeching about how "confident" she was and how she's just as deserving of respect as "skinny" actresses of her day).
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
At least for me, it's not the fact that they're "fat" that's an embarrassment -- it's the fact that they use their fatness as an excuse to dress and act like slobs with no sense of self-respect.
And those fat people who are *so fat* that they can't walk, but instead *waddle* a straight line and "need" an inhaler to toddle twenty feet just to bum a cigarette off me *is* repellent. And if you're so fat that you can't even waddle any-more but instead use a Rascal just to run in for toilet paper at the market, sorry, but either get some much-needed medical intervention or stop shovelling food in your face -- it's not rocket surgery.
Sounds it is a lack of dignity that offends your sensibilities. I think this may be universal. My old man has even commented on this when he sees old friends "let themselves go". I see the distinction being made here.
Fat acceptance movement: I suppose that could cut either way. Either they use it constructively to be dignified regardless of size ... or whine about it in between cheetos as some sort of phony self-esteem validation. I take it you've seen the latter as what the dominant theme of the movement is.
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Jackie T.
Sounds it is a lack of dignity that offends your sensibilities. I think this may be universal. My old man has even commented on this when he sees old friends "let themselves go". I see the distinction being made here.
Fat acceptance movement: I suppose that could cut either way. Either they use it constructively to be dignified regardless of size ... or whine about it in between cheetos as some sort of phony self-esteem validation. I take it you've seen the latter as what the dominant theme of the movement is.
JT
Totally the latter is the dominating presence. Of course, the "leaders" of the movement (self-appointed, de-facto, and otherwise) carry themselves well. Camryn Manheim is classy. Cass Elliot was classy. Mae West was classy. Queen Latifah is classy.
While these women are the quickest media examples of "fat girls", they are also hardly the dominating pressence of "fat acceptance", if they were, the blooming rate of "anorectic tendancies" occuring in the overweight* would probably be a little less prevalent. The overacheiving "fat girl" is an oddity in the entertainment media, and the most common image of fat people are rotund "trashy" types squeezing their poundage into leans that barely fit while the rolls spill out over the waistband and out from under their too-tiny t-shirts and "babydoll" cut tops.
Fat guys don't have it much better -- Kevin James has made his career out of being the self-lampooning fat slob. Drew Carey wasn't a slob of "Doug Heffernan" proportions, but he was unpoised, lacked confidence, and his fictionalised character on The Drew Carey Show wasn't exceptionally bright, either.
Reuben Studdard publicly went vegetarian and dropped about 70lbs to control his hypertension and diabetes -- he carries himself with poise, but at the same time, his runner-up, Clay Aiken, is the one who has remained in the spotlight. The message is clear -- if fat guys want attention, they have to be slovenly and dumb. And unfortunately, that too is the dominating population of fat men.
There's this "lie of self-esteem" taught in Amerikan public schools. Everybody is taught that, no matter what, they are beautiful and special and valid and deserving of respect. Wrong. First off, respect is earned -- it is *courtesy* that is automatic. You earn respect by acting respectful; in other words, treating others with the same courtesy you would like to have shown to you, recognising talent without a bias, and so forth. If you listen to more than the refrain of Aretha Franklin's "Respect", you discover that she's speaking as a woman who very much deserves it from a man who is showing her none -- she's not demanding it just for being there and doing nothing deserving of more than mere common courtesy.
A person "acts fat" when they miss that point. They're acting and dressing like slobs and demanding to be considered attractive. They have no apparent talents or other attributes that set them apart, but demand to be seen as "special" and "unique". They'll bitch for hours about skinny people and then expect any woman wearing smaller than a size 20 to just give them "respect" as an automatic.
And it's mostly women doing this shit. It's largely viewed as "unmanly" to act like one notices or at least cares about how one looks. Fat men are a very small portion of the "fat acceptance" crowd, and likewise, it's generally hard for weight-loss programs, even ones that emphasise health over sizes, to reach men simply because "that's vanity" and "vanity is effeminate". While men aren't targeted by such advertisers and therefore are criticised less by the general public, the assumption that this means "men are favoured" is false -- in fact, it's one of the underlying reasons that men are more prone to diabetes and heart failure than women are; the message is very clear that one must sacrifice their health for the sake of "masculinity".
*interesting fact: you're not "officially" anorectic until you're more than twenty-five pounds underweight.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
Quote:
Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
Totally the latter is the dominating presence. Of course, the "leaders" of the movement (self-appointed, de-facto, and otherwise) carry themselves well. Camryn Manheim is classy.
Cass Elliot was classy. Mae West was classy. Queen Latifah is classy.
While these women are the quickest media examples of "fat girls", they are also hardly the dominating pressence of "fat acceptance", if they were, the blooming rate of "anorectic tendancies" occuring in the overweight* would probably be a little less prevalent. The overacheiving "fat girl" is an oddity in the entertainment media, and the most common image of fat people are rotund "trashy" types squeezing their poundage into leans that barely fit while the rolls spill out over the waistband and out from under their too-tiny t-shirts and "babydoll" cut tops.
Fat guys don't have it much better -- Kevin James has made his career out of being the self-lampooning fat slob. Drew Carey wasn't a slob of "Doug Heffernan" proportions, but he was unpoised, lacked confidence, and his fictionalised character on
The Drew Carey Show wasn't exceptionally bright, either.
Reuben Studdard publicly went vegetarian and dropped about 70lbs to control his hypertension and diabetes -- he carries himself with poise, but at the same time, his runner-up, Clay Aiken, is the one who has remained in the spotlight. The message is clear -- if fat guys want attention, they have to be slovenly and dumb. And unfortunately, that too is the dominating population of fat men.
There's this "lie of self-esteem" taught in Amerikan public schools. Everybody is taught that, no matter what, they are beautiful and special and valid and deserving of respect. Wrong. First off, respect is earned -- it is *courtesy* that is automatic. You earn respect by acting respectful; in other words, treating others with the same courtesy you would like to have shown to you, recognising talent without a bias, and so forth. If you listen to more than the refrain of Aretha Franklin's "Respect", you discover that she's speaking as a woman who very much deserves it from a man who is showing her none -- she's not demanding it just for being there and doing nothing deserving of more than mere common courtesy.
A person "acts fat" when they miss that point. They're acting and dressing like slobs and demanding to be considered attractive. They have no apparent talents or other attributes that set them apart, but demand to be seen as "special" and "unique". They'll bitch for hours about skinny people and then expect any woman wearing smaller than a size 20 to just give them "respect" as an automatic.
And it's mostly women doing this shit. It's largely viewed as "unmanly" to act like one notices or at least cares about how one looks. Fat men are a very small portion of the "fat acceptance" crowd, and likewise, it's generally hard for weight-loss programs, even ones that emphasise health over sizes, to reach men simply because "that's vanity" and "vanity is effeminate". While men aren't targeted by such advertisers and therefore are criticised less by the general public, the assumption that this means "men are favoured" is false -- in fact, it's one of the underlying reasons that men are more prone to diabetes and heart failure than women are; the message is very clear that one must sacrifice their health for the sake of "masculinity".
*interesting fact: you're not "officially" anorectic until you're more than twenty-five pounds underweight.
Have you read "Generation Me" by Jean Twenge by chance? She posits that the self-esteem movement begun in the 70s has led to a generation of narcissists with diminished economic opportunities. The schools have been emphasizing "feeling good" about one's self regardless of whether one actually does anything with one's self. It definitely rang a bell or 12.
The masculinity gig (especially in the U.S.) just amuses me.
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
This was/is a popular television commercial:
http://www.fabuloussavings.com/onlin...ightlossfoods/
This is probably the only counter example I can provide. I have to agree that in general, males distance themselves from attempting to (or at least openly claim to) loose weight.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackie T.
Have you read "Generation Me" by Jean Twenge by chance? She posits that the self-esteem movement begun in the 70s has led to a generation of narcissists with diminished economic opportunities. The schools have been emphasizing "feeling good" about one's self regardless of whether one actually does anything with one's self. It definitely rang a bell or 12.
The masculinity gig (especially in the U.S.) just amuses me.
JT
Yupppp.
Their are so many people who inherently lack any good qualities but they demand that they receive the same respect of other people and we are conditioned to give them it.
About two months ago I was contacted by a girl I haven't talked too since 9th grade of highschool. She'd always been rather weird but now her attitude had become incredibly arrogant. The "I'm A bitch and I know it so fuck y'all" attitude. She had become incredibly fat, her face pock marked and her attitude horrible. It almost seems like she had become the physical expression of her shitty personality.
Anyway she ended up e-mailing me some pictures fishing for compliments. She had recently "come out" about being bisexual but I sincerely doubt she's anything but a lier.
Well, what ended up happenign was I lost my cool and said "yeah you have changed alot..you've become a big, fat pig with a shitty personality " *silence* "FUCK YOU..IM NOT UGLY IF IM UGLY THAT WHY IS THERE A GUY AFTER ME?"
Because hes desperate
Then I had to throw a zinger in about why she became bisexual..because when you're that horrible you need as many chances as you can get right?
Anyway..that story is just to frame my hatred for the feel good all the time philosophy in America. She was being a shitty person, and really hurting her body and her "friends" had nothing but "ohh you look preettyyyy..you're soo coool" lies lies lies because people are too afraid to have an opinion or..god forbid..piss someone off. People should be working to improve themselves, to better their minds and body. Automatically pointing at everyone and going "its okay, thats their thing" is a great way to reinforce someones physical and mental stagnation into a lump of useless. Not asking for everyone to be dicks to everyone, but some polite and friendly criticism goes a long way sometimes.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
Yes, but Japan is a consumerist culture that defines people by what they can buy rather than who the person is.
Yeah, the word "otaku" over there is the equivalent to "cat-piss man" over here -- and gamer or other type of nerd who only leaves the house for provisions or to purchase the latest anime DVDs and collectables and gaming stuff, and only if they didn't think ahead to have it delivered. Over here, anime geeks think calling themselves "otaku" is a good thing. They also comminly pronounce "kawaii" as "kuh-WHY" -- Amerikan "Whapanese" are morons.
Weeabooo Weaaabo Weeaaboooo :D
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
Depends.
Do you "dress fat" (ie: wear clothes that, whether you believe it or not, are unflattering for your body-type) or otherwise "act fat"?
Mae West was "fat" by all definitions, frankly (sorry, Marilyn Monroe is a bad example of "full figured" -- I can pull up several sites that prove she had comparable measurements to Pam Anderson; a size 16 in 1956 is comparable to a modern size 8 or 10); but she looked good, dressed flatteringly, and carried herself with poise and genuine confidence (rather than screeching about how "confident" she was and how she's just as deserving of respect as "skinny" actresses of her day).
i dont wear clothes that dont fit if they make me uncomfortabel i wont wear it
i wear clothes a lil too big
but somtimes i like to wear heels lipservice skirt and fishnets with a cute lil shirt
im 5'10" and weight about 210
and it is distributed evenly
47-36-48...and i know how to dress to flatter my figure:D
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velvet-Tongue
Yupppp.
Their are so many people who inherently lack any good qualities but they demand that they receive the same respect of other people and we are conditioned to give them it.
About two months ago I was contacted by a girl I haven't talked too since 9th grade of highschool. She'd always been rather weird but now her attitude had become incredibly arrogant. The "I'm A bitch and I know it so fuck y'all" attitude. She had become incredibly fat, her face pock marked and her attitude horrible. It almost seems like she had become the physical expression of her shitty personality.
Anyway she ended up e-mailing me some pictures fishing for compliments. She had recently "come out" about being bisexual but I sincerely doubt she's anything but a lier.
Well, what ended up happenign was I lost my cool and said "yeah you have changed alot..you've become a big, fat pig with a shitty personality " *silence* "FUCK YOU..IM NOT UGLY IF IM UGLY THAT WHY IS THERE A GUY AFTER ME?"
Because hes desperate
Then I had to throw a zinger in about why she became bisexual..because when you're that horrible you need as many chances as you can get right?
Anyway..that story is just to frame my hatred for the feel good all the time philosophy in America. She was being a shitty person, and really hurting her body and her "friends" had nothing but "ohh you look preettyyyy..you're soo coool" lies lies lies because people are too afraid to have an opinion or..god forbid..piss someone off. People should be working to improve themselves, to better their minds and body. Automatically pointing at everyone and going "its okay, thats their thing" is a great way to reinforce someones physical and mental stagnation into a lump of useless. Not asking for everyone to be dicks to everyone, but some polite and friendly criticism goes a long way sometimes.
I hear ya. Her friends are ultimately doing her a disservice. She's being completely self-delusional.
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
very interesting where this thread has gone........truth is, these days most people don't know how to dress so they wear clothes to impress anyone besides themselves. what am I trying to say?....................
off the rack clothing looks dumb on someone who doesn't have an off the rack body
Back in'the day' the companies that made 'goth' clothing where a lot smaller so a bit more care was taken in the design patterns , now theres so much hackwork it's getting pathetic.........funny, considering the style is sort of trying to emulate a time when everything was tailored
then again I've gotten a T-shirt altered because it 'just wasn't quite right' and that could be seen as neurotic by a lot of people
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Karl
very interesting where this thread has gone........truth is, these days most people don't know how to dress so they wear clothes to impress anyone besides themselves. what am I trying to say?....................
off the rack clothing looks dumb on someone who doesn't have an off the rack body
Back in'the day' the companies that made 'goth' clothing where a lot smaller so a bit more care was taken in the design patterns , now theres so much hackwork it's getting pathetic.........funny, considering the style is sort of trying to emulate a time when everything was tailored
then again I've gotten a T-shirt altered because it 'just wasn't quite right' and that could be seen as neurotic by a lot of people
What do you mean by off the rack clothing and off the rack body? Just in terms of normal sizes?
There are still a lot of good small companies in the "goth" clothing genre. One could probably custom order anything. Personally, I have no choice in the matter. My numbers are like 46-32 (and not muscular or even totally tone at the moment). I have only bought one full suit in my life and that had to be heavily tailored.
It is cost prohibitive for most to do this. That's the issue as it is being framed to me elsewhere. Shrine seems to have a greater variety (and has come to earn a reputation for quality in recent years). The small retailer has niches yet to fill imo. Hot Topic is shit.
JT
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by Scar
Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to?? I am just wondering if you all have noticed the same thing wherever you live, and if anyone has some theories about why this is happening. For the life of me I can't figure out why :-(
Going back to this original question, I wonder if it is because of the splintering of so many "goth groups" mentioned -- cyber, victorian, etc. etc. -- really diluted the refined style that evolved through the 80s in the early 90s. For me, I kind of see the fall-off from that time, but maybe that is just me. Then after the 90s with the proliferation of the Internet, people kept trying to out-goth one another with new and wacky things and eventually we lost our way? *shrug*
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used
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Originally Posted by YoungSoulRebel
Bikers: OK, possibly the only think that doesn't work for skinny guys. Skinny guys can be punks, but skinny biker guys just always look like eight-year-old boys playing "Hell's Angels" -- cute, but only to pervs like me.
It's hard to stay non-built and skinny when you're occasionally lifting motorcycles into their frames or pushing a pre-Evo Harley up a hill cause the primary chain snapped.
I've met a few skinny biker guys - usually guys who can't gain any kind of wait no matter what they do - but they're still wiry as fuck and strong.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
updat! I bought those pant i wanted! yay! they,re black with red accents and have like red jolly rogers in the pockets plus theyre made to where if i wanna go cruisin, i can like keep the front up and have the back hang a bit to show off my ass! lol so fucki cool! and comfy!
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
[QUOTE=Scar][B]Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they use-([/QUOTE)
I never saw people with the goth look as a majority, just people with the goth look here and there thur out the years.
However I did recently meet two, 21 year old guys, who are born one day a part, (I do astrology). These two goth looking guys do not know each other, and they are both from my area. Both from my area is unbeleiveable. I met the one from the goth date site and the other on My Space. If I am allow the post my My Space site address here, let me know. Because, any of you interested in seeing these two guys can go to my My Space site and look at their pictures. You can see more pictures of me too, but I wouldn't consider my look goth. My look is more glam. Let me also say these two guys are very nice guys. I took a late night walk along the creek and we both fed the ducks with the one. The other one took me to play minature golf, yes with his black eyeliner on and total look. I love men in eyeliner.
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Re: Do you think people have stopped dressing up (in the gothic way) like they used to??
Quote:
Originally Posted by World*in*my*Eyes
I love men in eyeliner.
preachin to the choir:rryumy:
