Backlash Against Immigrants?

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Originally Posted by Toe Cutter

I live in the same city as you and I don't know what your talking about. People have a right to be pissed off about this. She ran a stop sign a killed 4 kids! There would be outrage at who ever did that. Why are you portraying HER as the victim. She should not have been driving, and she is a fucking liar. Minneapolis/Twin-cities is one of the liberal cities in the whole fucking country. So what are you talking about? It appears to me like your feigning injustice to project an agenda. Why? Your slant on the story makes it sound extremely more dubious than I think most people saw it.

To answer your first question. I guess I need more clarification on what you mean. Do you mean immigrants as a whole or simply people from south of the boarder. I ask because, for instance as you know in Minneapolis we have the largest population of Somalians outside of Mogadishu and a HUGE population from the former Soviet Union. So who exactly are you talking about in your fear mongering. Because they have assimilated just fine. Can you point to any other examples of what your feeling?


I see immigrants as Americas little brother who are going to get picked on till they prove they have what it takes. Somebody else said something similar as well. They are the "New guy", what's the big deal? The Polish, Italians, Irish, Africans, Latinos.... Everybody is the new guy at some point. Who gives a shit? Immigrants are not house guests, I don't think people should be expected to welcome strangers with open arms it's not natural. Like anywhere in life people and groups of people need to prove themselfs. Which they will because people are people.

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Can you possibly be more full of shit? I stated the woman should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Are you ego projecting the fear mongering? I'm stating what I'm hearing around me. I don't care either way beyond it being brought up in a context irrelevant to the accident. Your original quote speaks for itself. Nice try though. :thumb:

JT

"Immigrants are like nature's punching-bag. Consider them a divine gift." - Admitted Alcoholic Clown Toe Cutter shows his hand.

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

We've discussed immigration here before. I respect the variety of opinions and arguments made in a civil manner. Given the events of the last few years and debates in congress, does anyone else fear a backlash against immigrants to intensify?

This mostly concerns me as the economy continues to be on shaky grounds. Scapegoats are often sought for the failings of individuals and society. To what extent do people believe this to be intensifying? If it is, do you see any possible solutions?

My basic view is to devise a guest worker program. I would not allow them to be on the government dole save for emergency room visits etc.

JT

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Jackie, the thing about a "guest worker" program is that it doesnt do shit for the millions of immigrants who not only came here to work, but to live here. What about them?

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

Can you possibly be more full of shit?

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I guess if you say so.

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

I'm stating what I'm hearing around me.

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Like What? What are you hearing? It's hearsay but can you be more specific, or is it really just a hunch?

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

Your original quote speaks for itself. Nice try though. :thumb:

"Immigrants are like nature's punching-bag. Consider them a divine gift." - Admitted Alcoholic Clown Toe Cutter shows his hand.

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I stand by that quote! :p:

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Originally Posted by GnArKiLL

Jackie, the thing about a "guest worker" program is that it doesnt do shit for the millions of immigrants who not only came here to work, but to live here. What about them?

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That'd be a bout step 3 (and no the rest wouldn't solve it). You'd have to create an extended process for obtaining citizenship.

JT

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Originally Posted by Toe Cutter

I guess if you say so.



Like What? What are you hearing? It's hearsay but can you be more specific, or is it really just a hunch?




I stand by that quote! :p:

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I'm hearing a circus clown bemoan immigrants as being nature's punching bag. :1orglaugh It's only a few people like you making these statements. My question pertained to what others are hearing from the sicko clowns and other morons around them. Nothing more. I offer you as evidence. I find your use of "hearsay" amusing, but your testimony meets my evidentiary burden of proof. Now shut the fuck up and go cry "bigot" elsewhere after saying that clown. :1orglaugh :thumb:

JT

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

I'm hearing a circus clown bemoan immigrants as being nature's punching bag. :1orglaugh It's only a few people like you making these statements.

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:D Yeah, people with a sense of humor.

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

My question pertained to what others are hearing from the sicko clowns and other morons around them. Nothing more. I offer you as evidence. I find your use of "hearsay" amusing, but your testimony meets my evidentiary burden of proof. Now shut the fuck up and go cry "bigot" elsewhere after saying that clown. :1orglaugh :thumb:
JT

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Oh, okay. Your evidentiary burden of proof? Whatever Judge Judy. :rolleyes: Fuck you too bitch! :thumb:

To set the record straight, I got no probs with any immigrants. As long as they don't kill people. I do think they need to prove themselves thought. Whatever though, later bitch!

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Originally Posted by Toe Cutter

To set the record straight, I got no probs with any immigrants.

In a Previous Quote, "Immigrants are like nature's punching-bag. Consider them a divine gift."

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I do find this beyond funny sweetheart (not for the same reasons as you though) :1orglaugh :thumb:

JT

Hey guys, easy.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Hey guys, easy.

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haha we're cool. We're both in MPLS. You can't take angry Minnesotans seriously. :1orglaugh :thumb:

JT

Fair enough, just that I'm not in MPLS, and it looks like a civil thread is rapidly not becoming so from over here. ;)

...just don't start calling illegal aliens "undocumented immigrants". That's so PC it makes me cringe.

How about "poor displaced victims of society?"

I'll usually use "illegal immigrants" or actual country of citizenship for those outside the city. "Migrant workers" if I see em picking fruit. MPLS is a sanctuary city. I can't be bothered to even ask here. SF is too. I don't bother there either.

JT

no human is illegal... -.- I'll cut your toe Jackie T. *throwing bones*

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Originally Posted by OliX

no human is illegal... -.- I'll cut your toe Jackie T. *throwing bones*

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An action is illegal, not a human. It hardly makes them less human in these instances.

JT

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

How about "poor displaced victims of society?"

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Lets even worse, still sugar coating it... How about the "Immigrant Question", can find a Final Solution to that Question?

Bacchus88: I hope you're not making some sort of bad historical pun in your use of the term "Final Solution".

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Originally Posted by Bacchus88

Lets even worse, still sugar coating it... How about the "Immigrant Question", can find a Final Solution to that Question?

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I have a solution! :)

How about you and others all immigrate to Mexico or Somalia or Kosovo for a change.

eye for a eye, job for a job
a win-win combination

Dolar is much stronger in any of the countries where most of the immigrants in amerika comes from. That's a good bonus for a good start.

In time this would generate more stabile economy. Of course that would need a great deal of balancing and law reforms.

Bad things are that politics are slow, it usualy takes generations for some visible changes. We need a new and dinamic type of politics and a new creative educational system. For now we can only teach our children and closest.

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

An action is illegal, not a human....

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then why did you said

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

I'll usually use "illegal immigrants" or...

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now go and hug your first illegal immigrant you see on the street and apologize :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by OliX

then why did you said



now go and hug your first illegal immigrant you see on the street and apologize :rolleyes:

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That's their legal status, thus the "parenthesis". It's not a judgment on who they are. This is getting silly. :rolleyes:


JT

main intention was to be silly in begining of acusing because it's silly to acuse you of anything on this matter... :)

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Originally Posted by OliX

main intention was to be silly in begining of acusing because it's silly to acuse you of anything on this matter... :)

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That's cool. :1orglaugh :thumb:

JT

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Originally Posted by OliX

I have a solution! :)

How about you and others all immigrate to Mexico or Somalia or Kosovo for a change.

eye for a eye, job for a job
a win-win combination

Dolar is much stronger in any of the countries where most of the immigrants in amerika comes from. That's a good bonus for a good start.

In time this would generate more stabile economy. Of course that would need a great deal of balancing and law reforms.

Bad things are that politics are slow, it usualy takes generations for some visible changes. We need a new and dinamic type of politics and a new creative educational system. For now we can only teach our children and closest.

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Not necessarily a bad idea, Olix, and, if I had sufficient money, I might do that.

But, one question that any American or anyone else from the industrialised world should ask him- or herself, "If am gonna inflict myself on my neighbours wherever I decide to move, how much am I gonna prepare myself to not acting like a completely obnoxious, spoiled jerk, once I'm there?", and "If I can't be of major help to my neighbours there, how can I, AT THE VERY LEAST, do the least amount of harm to them?", and that goes as much for me as any other American making such a move.

As you noted in a similar post you made a couple of days ago here, learning at some of the local language or languages would be a good start, as would learning some of the local history and customs, so that one doesn't end up expecting the folks in Mexico City, Mogadishu or Pristina, let alone the smaller cities, towns and villages to look, act, think and live like the home folks do.

That means putting up with a lot more bother and frustration than if one stayed home, because, while you're learning how the society around you works, and in turn, the folks around you learn how you work, or don't, and, so it's to be hoped, both sides can reach some kind of workable, mutually beneficial arraignments.

My own immigrant experience was as what sociologists would call an "internal migrant", because I moved from Northern Nevada to Las Vegas in August '91 to attend the University of Nevada-Las Vegas.

While it was only moving from one part of my home state to another, there was still enough of a culture shock and adjustment process, much of it not always the happiest, but far from the worst, either, as Las Vegas and I took our respective measures of each other and adjusted, more or less, to each other's presence, kinda like two cats that resign themselves to sharing the same territory.

Still, compared with what so many immigrants all over the world have had to go through, my troubles and travails, while big to me, were and are pretty small beer compared to theirs, and I have to admire the amount of sheer guts it takes for many immigrants, regardless of where they're from and to where they're going, to actually pack themselves, and, sometimes, their families, leave home and start over again someplace entirely new.

That doesn't mean every immigrant's a saint, purer than the driven snow on a Moscow winter's day.

There are plenty of immigrants who are drunks, loudmouths, opportunistic little knuckleheads with the morals of a Bubonic Plague virus and the manners of a drunken sailor with too much money and attitude in a seedy bar on a Saturday night, and who are just generally unpleasant folks to be around.

But, hey, there are also lots of people who stay home, who like to practise their boorishness as much as possible, too.

So, it evens out, to a degree.

Doesn't mean I like every obnoxious expatriate Californian, Oregonian, Midwesterner, or East Coaster who comes here.


But, there are also plenty of native and longtime Nevadans who would qualify for Arsehole of the Year, if such a contest were ever to be held, and there have been times when I've qualified for that nomination myself.

Anyone and everyone can, given the right, or wrong, circumstances and stimuli.

Just wish some folks would stop expecting everyone else around 'em to look, sound, think and act like themselves.

Ain't gonna happen. No way, no how, and that's that.

Yours, D., who's been voted Arsehole of the Month for March, 2008 by his cat, Amigo, because I spend way too much damn time on the computer-thing and not enough paying attention to him.

Ask Mr. Jackie about that, as he can tell you about that from experience with his own cat, I'm sure:1orglaugh .

i have no problem with immagrants its just that i have a problem with people not assimilating with the group and forming little gangs learn the language try really hard to fit in then after you have had practice fitting in then you can go non conformist

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Originally Posted by Donald Rilea

Bacchus88: I hope you're not making some sort of bad historical pun in your use of the term "Final Solution".

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Donald
bad pun... My odd and sometime twisted since of humor, gets me in more trouble than not.

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Originally Posted by OliX

I have a solution! :)

How about you and others all immigrate to Mexico or Somalia or Kosovo for a change.

eye for a eye, job for a job
a win-win combination

Dolar is much stronger in any of the countries where most of the immigrants in amerika comes from. That's a good bonus for a good start.

In time this would generate more stabile economy. Of course that would need a great deal of balancing and law reforms.

Bad things are that politics are slow, it usualy takes generations for some visible changes. We need a new and dinamic type of politics and a new creative educational system. For now we can only teach our children and closest.

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I have done the grunt work and still do the grunt, because I enjoy my job. I have work right there with illegal, I understand there is alot good hard working people that just want to have better life again I am find with that. I think might be repeating myself, but why not at this point.

I it isnt that simple OliX the type of dinamic change you want rarely happen with politics.Politics now world wide serve their self over the better good of the nation. It more so happens at the end of mussel, sword, what have you.

Again this goes back to my nationalism idea or Patriotism.

I have every sympathy for people who come here for amnesty. If you're fleeing death squads, let's try to make room.

However, if you're coming here because you just want a better financial situation, and are willing to break the law to get it (both in coming here and in sending/taking money tax free back home), then I am not sympathetic.

I am also extremely displeased by people who come here to live and work, and yet make no significant effort to learn the language. Even if I fled to a country and never intended to live there (or was just there temporarily), I'd make every effort to learn the language simply as a show of respect for the country and culture.

We need to stop letting guilt lead us to sanction unsupportable behaviours.

:yeeaaahh:

All good points. I have a sneaking suspicion "they" have spoken tonight with their votes. No more politics for me for a long time. I need a stiff drink.

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Originally Posted by inox

I have every sympathy for people who come here for amnesty. If you're fleeing death squads, let's try to make room.

However, if you're coming here because you just want a better financial situation, and are willing to break the law to get it (both in coming here and in sending/taking money tax free back home), then I am not sympathetic.

I am also extremely displeased by people who come here to live and work, and yet make no significant effort to learn the language. Even if I fled to a country and never intended to live there (or was just there temporarily), I'd make every effort to learn the language simply as a show of respect for the country and culture.

We need to stop letting guilt lead us to sanction unsupportable behaviours.

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Cool! Which Native American language do you speak?

You know the language thing always got me.

How many of you have tried to learn a foreign language as an adult? With resources like time and money I am having a bitch of a time learning Spanish and I am exposed to it almost every day.

There is also the embarrassment of messing up. As often as not if someone speaks English with a thick accent or bad word usage, you will get made fun of. Not exactly encouragement to try to fit in.

People say the new guys have to prove themselves, but that brings the question I have asked the old guys since grade school. What did you do to earn your status here?

it's not really about what language, it's more about a lack of desire to communicate. oh well, not something that'll be resolved in our generation

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Cool! Which Native American language do you speak?

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Oh, one of those is the language of our government, media, and society at large?

If I lived in a country or res where such a language was used by the government or even a substantial percentage of the population, I'd consider it. My Spanish, for example, isn't too bad.

As it is, your sardonic comments fall a little flat.

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Originally Posted by Cafe_Post_Mortem

What did you do to earn your status here?

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That's the wrong question. The right question is, "What would you do in their shoes?"

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Originally Posted by inox

That's the wrong question. The right question is, "What would you do in their shoes?"

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Probably work my ass off at a substandard (by US terms) job while trying to survive. That's just me though, I am sure out of 10million people others would do it differently.