god is dead

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Originally Posted by Azekiel

Is Devil13 still around? this thread keeps bouncing up the list and (s)he doesn't seem to have posted for a page or so.

in reverse cronological, a few thoughts:

Science dos not support God, or deny them either. God is one of the many things Science has shelved under 'check back later'. maybe something will come up and we'll find proof one way or the other. i don't see what form that evidence could take, but that's often the way of things. is god dead? for D13, apparently. the word 'dead' suggests that a thing was 'alive' at some point, which goes against the doctrine of atheism, therefore i assume (s)he's refering to their own personal concept of god, alive during the religious upbringing but no longer.

As to religious wars... No, i've yet to hear of a war that is more than nominally about religion. that said, religion is a superb way to rally support for a war, an excellent way to motivate your soldiers and a very useful excuse for suppressing any dissent. having a largely secular population doesn't prevent a nation going to war, but it does make things a little more difficult for someone intent on causing one.

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I agree

how 'bout this "I am God!!! you're GOD,we all are god,so lets say fuck the word "god",ha


i hate these debates,there will never be an end ,we all have our own views, so lets keep it that way.....



i agree with JAX up there.........^ i believe in myself in thats it

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Originally Posted by killerkat

i hate these debates,there will never be an end ,we all have our own views, so lets keep it that way.....

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yea but with a "moral value" government its not likely going to just go away or anything

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Originally Posted by devil13

yea but with a "moral value" government its not likely going to just go away or anything

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yea.......yea,i know....it was worth a try though,haha.........

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Originally Posted by devil13

Now I started this thread to get people to talk about the subject. I picked the title because it would get peoples attention. It has worked. I mean, I started this thread a day ago and look at how many of you have replied. I am NOT anrgry or full of hate. I can be sarcastic, but only to those that deserve it. I think it is rather funny because so far I have gotten well I dont think it is and I dont think most of you think it is either. If I had said I was a satanist and said fuck god, I would have had less anger directed at me. I think that if you feel that strongly about the subject and it offends your moral value then you wouldnt be on any of the blue blood sites. since you are here than there shouldt be a problem. ok.

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Nah, if you had said you were a satanist then it would have spawned a question about what kind of satanist you are. The topic of God has come up a few times here and most of the threads around it have been quite interesting. I may have been harsh in calling this one High School level shit but it has a close feel to it...though I doubt anyone here was offended by the idea of God being dead to be honest. My only issue with this thread was the shallow nature of it compared to say the "This is about religion" thread. We've had a few threads like thsi about satanism...some amazingly good (sadly now lost) and some laughingly bad (thankfully forgotten). I guess this one hovers in the middle...not horrible enough to pass on but not as interesting as when most here are at the top of their game so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

what do you mean by "extreme athiest?" just wondering your perspective.

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Lol, that sounds bad, just to clarify for anyone, Im not an extremist. Lol, I just feel VERY strong about there being no god, I dont ponder the existance, I dont believe in miracles, etc. I will never back down from a believer and can discuss religion until Im blue in the face. BUT, I will never shove my non beliefs down someones throat, nor talk down to anyone who believes in whatever. I dont call anyone stupid for their faith, and pretty much live and let live. I think all the atheists being whiney crybabies about no prayer in school, removing the ten commandments from official areas, etc are just as bad as bible thumpers. I guess I feel Im an extreme atheist because of this. Lol, sorry if I couldnt explain it all that great.

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Originally Posted by Jax

Lol, that sounds bad, just to clarify for anyone, Im not an extremist. Lol, I just feel VERY strong about there being no god, I dont ponder the existance, I dont believe in miracles, etc. I will never back down from a believer and can discuss religion until Im blue in the face. BUT, I will never shove my non beliefs down someones throat, nor talk down to anyone who believes in whatever. I dont call anyone stupid for their faith, and pretty much live and let live. I think all the atheists being whiney crybabies about no prayer in school, removing the ten commandments from official areas, etc are just as bad as bible thumpers. I guess I feel Im an extreme atheist because of this. Lol, sorry if I couldnt explain it all that great.

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This reminded me of a super cheesy pick up line I heard not long back...I'll have to PM it to you cause there is no way I'd say it in public lol

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

This reminded me of a super cheesy pick up line I heard not long back...I'll have to PM it to you cause there is no way I'd say it in public lol

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SAY IT SAY IT NOW!!!!!!cause this thread is becomming lame, like people not eating cheesy poofs lame.......and I wanna hear the pick up line.....I need help with my pick up lines....hehhehe

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Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire

This reminded me of a super cheesy pick up line I heard not long back...I'll have to PM it to you cause there is no way I'd say it in public lol

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Lol, cant wait to read it. i like cheesy pick up lines, haha.

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Originally Posted by Jax

Lol, that sounds bad, just to clarify for anyone, Im not an extremist. Lol, I just feel VERY strong about there being no god, I dont ponder the existance, I dont believe in miracles, etc.

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now the question that comes to my mind is do you think that there's a possibility that everything that the concept of god pertains to is true, but that it is entirely based on scientific and physical properties, instead of "supernatural", magic, etc.? and if this is such a possibility, would it still be athiesm or not? I guess what i'm saying is do you think athiesm is the belief that there is nothing besides the natrual, our "reality", physical law, etc? or do you think that there is no validity in the concept god, from a naturalistic perspective, and that there is no higher forms of understanding of the universe besides what we allready know?

I'm worried now, because devil13 is agreeing with me when I think most of what he has said so far has been garbage.

Seperation of church and state. ok. good.

Atheism is a religious belief, and has no more rational basis than the religions it stands opposed to. You say 'god is dead', when saying so would indicate that you're not in fact an atheist, just rabidly opposed to your old religion (god has to exist for you to hate Him). Okay, set that aside; you want to think yourself an atheist? fine. so then you go and commit the worst kind of religious intolerance; you ignore people's own feelings and opinions. in a swipe, you declare any position that is not your own invalid. nice one.
Then, when people try to argue the case you ignore, belittle or try to out-bluster them, never giving giving any argument better than 'You're wrong, i'm right'.
Ok, 'you can't prove a negative'. very old axiom. That doesn't, however, mean that mere absence of evidence can be considered as good as proof, it simply means that the only rational position usuncertainty until evidence af a positive appears. I say again, Atheism is a belief, and has no more basis in rationality than any religion.

As an Atheist myself i'd advise you to read the books 23* suggested; there's some interesting reading in there.

Getting bored now. bring on the Ultra-Cheesy pickup line!

ok. ok. I'll defend you devil 13 because it's not really fair. I know what it's like to get attacked because you are misunderstood by people who refuse to listen to what you have to say.
Voltaire's famous line is "if there was no God, it would be neccesary to invent one."... nevermind the neccesity of such an idea, the fact is that we as people HAVE invented one, whether one really exists or not. we can all understand what the concept god because of human understanding of it. it is in this context that the phrase "god is dead" applies; in a socio-philisophical context- not in a supernatural context, as all atheists would reject. the philosophy stems from the ancient traditions that people were helpless and ignorant and everything that happened they attributed to the god(s)... later on in the age of enlightenment when people have a never before seen rise in medical understanding, science, philosophy, technology they moved toward a society that was more human oriented and more secular (as to whether that has lasted to still today is open to debate) and as such for them it was so declare that "god" was dead to them, no longer neccesary- whether in fact god was still "alive" off in his heaven, was irrelevent because he had nothing to do with them either way.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

ok. ok. I'll defend you devil 13 because it's not really fair. I know what it's like to get attacked because you are misunderstood by people who refuse to listen to what you have to say.
Voltaire's famous line is "if there was no God, it would be neccesary to invent one."... nevermind the neccesity of such an idea, the fact is that we as people HAVE invented one, whether one really exists or not. we can all understand what the concept god because of human understanding of it. it is in this context that the phrase "god is dead" applies; in a socio-philisophical context- not in a supernatural context, as all atheists would reject. the philosophy stems from the ancient traditions that people were helpless and ignorant and everything that happened they attributed to the god(s)... later on in the age of enlightenment when people have a never before seen rise in medical understanding, science, philosophy, technology they moved toward a society that was more human oriented and more secular (as to whether that has lasted to still today is open to debate) and as such for them it was so declare that "god" was dead to them, no longer neccesary- whether in fact god was still "alive" off in his heaven, was irrelevent because he had nothing to do with them either way.

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I probably wouldnt have put it so eliquently but yes.

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Originally Posted by devil13

yes that is true, but the one's that are yet to be born will have a very hard time trying to gain any real power or infuance. we look at most new religions as a cult or a sham. scientolagy was the last religion to actually gain some acceptance.

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Every religion on earth at it's beginings was called a cult. Christianity, Islam, all of them. It all boils down to when an idea becoms a popular belief. Then that's when it becomes dangerous.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

ok. ok. I'll defend you devil 13 because it's not really fair. I know what it's like to get attacked because you are misunderstood by people who refuse to listen to what you have to say.
Voltaire's famous line is "if there was no God, it would be neccesary to invent one."... nevermind the neccesity of such an idea, the fact is that we as people HAVE invented one, whether one really exists or not. we can all understand what the concept god because of human understanding of it. it is in this context that the phrase "god is dead" applies; in a socio-philisophical context- not in a supernatural context, as all atheists would reject. the philosophy stems from the ancient traditions that people were helpless and ignorant and everything that happened they attributed to the god(s)... later on in the age of enlightenment when people have a never before seen rise in medical understanding, science, philosophy, technology they moved toward a society that was more human oriented and more secular (as to whether that has lasted to still today is open to debate) and as such for them it was so declare that "god" was dead to them, no longer neccesary- whether in fact god was still "alive" off in his heaven, was irrelevent because he had nothing to do with them either way.

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Are you just sticking intelligent-sounding words together at random?

There is an important word at the beginning of your Voltaire quote: 'If'. Any religion (as opposed to a belief; the latter would include atheism, the former would not) would refute the notion that humans 'invented' God(s). Which pretty much makes the rest of what you're saying meaningless, but i'll go on anyway. in a socio-philisophical context (you made that one up didn't you? i'll take it to mean any context other than the metaphysical), God, as the embodiment of unknown and unknowable influences upon our lives, has diminished as these influences have diminished (or appeared to; many of them have simply been moved from "It's Religion - we don't need to worry about it" into "It's Science - we don't need to worry about it".). that was what Nietsche meant by 'God is dead'. as i've already said, i see no problem with this.

And i'm still lost. what's your point?

"I feel that it is my responsability to force my opinion on other people. This makes me feel important."
By stating your opinion as fact, you make yourself EXACTLY THE FUCKING SAME AS BUSH.
Congrats, pope.

I'm not going to explain my point again because I made it pretty clear. but I will adress a few things which seem to be unclear to you.
first of all 'socio-philosophical' is a word that I made up, yes. It means relationships that are based on sociology and how they tie into philosophical thinking. I said it that way because I didn't feel like tyoping out that entire long explanation, and thought that it would be understood that that is what I meant. I guess I was wrong. if you'd like more information about these two fields of study, um.. go to the library.
I don't know if you are trying to dispute that there is a difference between an invented idea and a true reality... even so, i'll explain it again... take the example someone posed of a pink elephant. pink elephants don't exist as a real physical thing, however since we can think up the idea of a pink elephant, the concept of a pink elephant thus is in existance- but that doesn't prove that thier is a connection between fantasy and reality, just like god.
as to the idea of science, technology, mathmatics IE: natural causes being justified to explain the supernatural... It can't. that is a contradiction. and like I've said before and you and nietzsche would agree, that is just the replacement of one ridiculous illogical assumption for another and is just as stupid, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

I'm not going to explain my point again because I made it pretty clear.

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i for one can very rarely understand any posts you make.

but hey, i'm not the sharpest tool in the box either.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

in this context the phrase "god is dead" applies...to declare that "god" was dead to them, no longer neccesary- whether in fact god was still "alive" off in his heaven, was irrelevent because he had nothing to do with them either way.

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how is that not clear? if you can't understand that then maybe you should go read about why fred durst is an asshole or something instead of engaging in a discussion about philosophy and theology.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

how is that not clear? if you can't understand that then maybe you should go read about why fred durst is an asshole or something instead of engaging in a discussion about philosophy and theology.

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:1orglaugh :1orglaugh
hahaha You're the second person to recommend The Fred Durst thread to me in almost as many days.....i wonder if it means something........hmmmm....

so then you are an atheist you do not believe in anything. So technically you do not even believe in yourself.

"Your god is dead. And No one cares. If there is a hell, I'll see you there." Heresy - Trent Reznor - NIN

Sorry. I thought that this song was somewhat appropriate for this thread.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

now the question that comes to my mind is do you think that there's a possibility that everything that the concept of god pertains to is true, but that it is entirely based on scientific and physical properties, instead of "supernatural", magic, etc.? and if this is such a possibility, would it still be athiesm or not? I guess what i'm saying is do you think athiesm is the belief that there is nothing besides the natrual, our "reality", physical law, etc? or do you think that there is no validity in the concept god, from a naturalistic perspective, and that there is no higher forms of understanding of the universe besides what we allready know?

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Isnt basing the 'supernatural' on a scientific or physical property Darwinism? Im not quite sure, as Ive never studied it.

I do not believe in a higher power, or someone who has created (ie the rib from adam...yadda yadda). I DO however believe in technology and things that humans can not possibly comprehend, a higher life form. So, lol, I believe in existance of aliens and otherworldly life forms. I have to, I cant believe that humans are considered the most intelligent beings in any universe;p But yes, I believe there is nothing besides the natural and of course, what science has proved about physical law, etc. Im atheistic from the POV that there is NO god, no diety, and will never get on my knees to pray. I believe in myself, and that humans should look to themselves for guidance and understanding. If I kill someone I would not pray that a god forgives me, but I will take responsibility for my own actions. I think that humans themselves create their own destiny.

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Originally Posted by Nuada_Airgetlam

so then you are an atheist you do not believe in anything. So technically you do not even believe in yourself.

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No, as an atheist I do not believe in a god or diety. I fully believe in myself, which could also put me in the catagory as a satanist.

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Originally Posted by TheQuietPlace

"Your god is dead. And No one cares. If there is a hell, I'll see you there." Heresy - Trent Reznor - NIN

Sorry. I thought that this song was somewhat appropriate for this thread.

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bravo. :thumb:

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Originally Posted by devil13

yes that is true, but the one's that are yet to be born will have a very hard time trying to gain any real power or infuance. we look at most new religions as a cult or a sham. scientolagy was the last religion to actually gain some acceptance.

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Hey, a round of applause for scientology! If a bunch of down on their luck sci-fi writers can come up with a million-dollar, pseudo-religious cash cow, then why can't we?!

don't really know too much about darwinism, sorry.