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Here's my list (incomplete as always...and with linky goodness) what are yours?
Palimpsest: A Memoir by Gore Vidal
The Passionate Mistakes and Intricate Corruption of One Girl in America (Native Agents) by Michelle Tea
The Atrocity Exhibition by JG Ballard
White Lies: Race, Class, Gender& Sexuality in White Supremecist Discourse
That's it for now. Your turn.
reading about how white supremacists feel about class, gender and sexuality sounds a little fruitless to me. it's like 'I can handle the fact they want to whipe al non-whites off the face of the earth...but they don't like our contemporary gender roles? now that's just going too far!'
It may be fruitless to you but if you have to deal with it on a personal or social level...it becomes quite important. A know your enemy kinda thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
just seems to me that it's an attempt to find a logical explanation where there is none. If you're a biggot nazi then you're going to hate pretty much everything that isn't the same as you (or is, but you wish wasn't) and what is the same as you, is what some other racist peice of shit thinks that they are and said that you are and should be. they don't analzise this shit like the writer of the book, because if they did then thier bullshit wouldn't hold up, and they'd see it was ridiculous and unfounded.
Understanding your enemy psychologically should be the first step...Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
Its the same in Iraq.
If they made any real sustained effort to actually understand Muslim fundamentalism they'd have a much better chance of appeasing it.
Know thy enemy. A lot of times the best way is to just try to see the underpinnings of their warped outlooks. I've actually learned more by letting them think they have an open ear than by fighting them. A lot of decent stuff has been written about islamic fundamentalism, but not applied. I question whether they even could be appeased at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by 23*
I'll make my booklist later :thumb:
OEC
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23*
Are you sure you mean to say "appease?" Perhaps "combat?"
Yes I most certainly did mean appease rather than combat.
nothing specific on my reading list right now. maybe some phillip k. dick or robert heinlein since they have been mentioned to me so often. any other general recommendations for other authors/titles?
some recommendations:
amphigorey - edward gorey collection
art of war - sun tzu
chopin's funeral - eisler
dive - pipin ferreras
atlas shrugged - ayn rand
All right, then... just wondering... could you explain? Maybe a new thread would be more appropriate.Quote:
Originally Posted by 23*
The Ayn Rand Cult - Jeff Walker. I liked her stuff once. Also the memoirs of Nathaniel and Barbara Branden.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinstar
Master and the Margarita - Mikhail Bulgakov
On The Road - Jack Kerouac.
Anything by Jack London.
OEC
Last time I got involved in a political talk here, I sincerly fucked up! :1orglaugh :1orglaughQuote:
Originally Posted by tinstar
In saying this though, if you do start a new thread on the subject I probably won't be able to stop myself from contributing....
.
This rocks!! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEyedCat
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinstar
I'd like to add
Tao te Ching
Amphigorey Too Edward Gorey
Amphigorey Also Edward Gorey
Cautionary Tales for Small Children Edward Gorey
Battle Royale
I really hated this film. Is the book just about mindless slaughter as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by SindelChaos
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for mindless slaughter, I just thought the film did it particularly mundanely .
Ain't Nobody's Business If You Do : The Absurdity of Consensual Crimes in Our Free Country
by Peter McWilliams
The Emperor Wears No Clothes: The Authoritative Historical Record of Cannabis and the Conspiracy Against Marijuana
by Jack Herer
Marijuana Grower's Handbook: The Indoor High Yield Guide
by Ed Rosenthal
Strange Days, Dangerous Nights: Photos from the Speed Graphics Era
by Larry Millett, John Sandford
The Iceman: The True Story of a Cold-Blooded Killer
by Anthony Bruno
The Deadliest Profession (Bounty Hunter, No 1)
by William Boyles, Hank Nuwer
'There Ain't no Black in the Union Jack' : The Cultural Politics of Race and Nation (Black Literature and Culture Series)
by Paul Gilroy
Another Gorey enthusiast? Excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by SindelChaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23*
I haven't seen the films. I heard they did a horrible job. The book isn't about mindless slaughter its about how crazy a government can be, how the human mind works when threatened, and just about who you can and can't trust. There are many morals in the novel. I loved the book. Lots of action and lots of emotion.
I even heard in the sequal to the movie they made all the kids like in 7th grade, which really, in my opinion, would mess the whole story line up completely. It's very rare that a movie can do it's book justice.
house of leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski
Memnoch the Devil by Ann Rice
A Whisper of Eternity by Amnada Ashley
there is a few more but I cant remember..
Shadow~
You're looking at it from a diffrent angle though, of course if you analyze if looking for the logic it won't hold up...at least in the eyes of the sane and educated. But that's not really the point. You can't dismiss people because their ideas and ideals are heavily flawed...you do that and you pretty much arm them with validation for their ideas. It's not about logic here it's about seeing a bit more as to how they believe what they do...looking for answers to whatever questions a person going into this has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
It's very easy to dismiss racists and bigots...but when you have to personally deal with them or they put you in a hospital...you can kinda want some deeper answers...and often time they are ones even more confusing than the ideas which spawned them.
Plus biggot nazi's are only one area of a larger issue that's grown much more complex...from rasicm in minorities to variations on nazi ideals that have sadly resurfaced in surprising ways.
You can't appease fundementalists in any spectrum...they are like roaches you have to deal with them severely or they take over your enviornment. Be it radical islamic fundementalists, christian fundementalists, or political ones...all they know is force of will. Reason and diplomacy is lost on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by 23*
You MUST combat them...maybe not always with bombs and bullets but you can never let up on them and give them time to breath and organize. That mistake is too often made...that is what breeds us bus bombing cowards, radical militia members, and people knocking on my door sunday morning trying to sell me a new religion...or in the case of Hollywood annoying as Scientologists and their fucking faith based on something a Sci-Fi writer spawned to make cash.
can you name any significant radical groups from the last 200 years that have actually been stamped out through combat? and if so I bet they are exceptions.
As I said in the fundamentalist thread, things are not just black and white, there are not just enemies & friends.
If you want to wipe out unreasonable forces then you will have to target all unreasonable people. That is most people in all countries.
Dialogue should be the future not combat. A new dialogue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23*
You can't wipe out fundementalists...hence the roach refrence. You do however have to fight them...again and again. Dialouge has always been at the forefront but what many seem to forget is that it fails quite regularly and you can only talk so long.
Fundementalists are not talkers...they rant and rave to drum up support and harrass and harm any they see as a threat. It's not a black and white issue nor did I even claim it was...but you're not dealing with an enemy or friend that WANTS to talk...their goal is a world or nation under their view and none else.
You can't talk someone out of that, they do not have moments of clarity. So you fight it...day in and day out. Not everything can be conqouered and beaten...but that does not mean you don't still have to fight it. They are like bullies you have get bloody with every so often.
Feel free to talk all you want....but their will always be one that wishes not to listen and simply shoots you down like a dog...and it is those that must be dealt with forcefully. Talk is cheap, action is not...and that's the problem. We've made action both expensive and unpopular and that's our weakness. We think we can talk our way out of eveyrthing with logic and peace...and that's just not the reality. Not everyone cares about logic or peace...only their goals and ideals.
And lets face it...not everyones goals and ideals are the same...violations and horrors are bound to rise as a result. They have to be aware that any and all actions that go too far in the eyes of any who can fight back will result in sustained and unrelenting force.
Appeasement is for the weak...I'm all for compromise...but not with those who have no plans to honor such agreements. Fundementalists in all forms be it those who wish to only talk, only fight, or only live under one world view sadly need to be dealt with in unsavory manners...and that's why so few rise up to do it while many sit back and discuss it to death never getting a damned thing done.
Did you think to ask me why I am reading that book? I really had no desire to see this turn into yet another political pissing thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Glory
Yes thank you Tinstar it would.Quote:
tinstar Quote:
Originally Posted by 23*
Yes I most certainly did mean appease rather than combat.
All right, then... just wondering... could you explain? Maybe a new thread would be more appropriate.
Back to the question at hand here's more. No links in this one I'm exhausted.
The Collected Poetry of Nikki Giovanni : 1968-1998
by Nikki Giovanni
Hallelujah! The Welcome Table: A Lifetime of Memories with Recipes
by Maya Angelou
Her
by Lawrence Ferlinghetti
Last Words: The Final Journals of William S. Burroughs
by William S. Burroughs, James Grauerholz
Love
by Toni Morrison
The Ethical Slut: A Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities
by Dossie Easton, Catherine A. Liszt
Whores and Other Feminists
by Jill Nagle
Thoughts and Meditations (Kahlil Gibran Pocket Library)
by Kahlil Gibran
Living at the Movies
by Jim Carroll
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudemuse
:1orglaugh :1orglaugh :thumb: :thumb:
k. a few points of intrest to address here:
that's true, obviously such a phenomenon has many sociological and psychological impacts that should be considered, and isn't to be dismissed or written off, but it seemed to me the book was more about examning the particular idealogy behind it ...which I guess what im trying to say is, aren't fundemental to understaning from an abject level of philosophy. but that's just my personal feeling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tequila Zaire
I could presume to guess your mindset, but that would do you an injustice, because I know that you aren't one-dimensional and easily read. I was just offering a critique on the subject based on the review I read of the book. also I wasn't the one that brought up politics, that wasn't my desire as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudemuse
and lastly, Hempknight, I was just thinking I haven't seen you around for a while. have you been absent? well, welcome back, either way.
the story of O
(I just finished reading it and although the ending was lame,excuse me i mean supressed, i can't wait to read the sequel)
samurai zen (interesting book about the mental focus and meditation of a samurais life including some info stuff on bushido) although the silly white guy on the front of it makes it hard to take seriously...but from what i have read you really can't judge this book by the cover(or else you would never stop laughing;)
i am also reading a bunch of business books just for fun, stuff about investments, property flipping (buying and selling houses for profit) management mentalities from becoming entrapenurial to playing the management game in big corporations.(they were all free and i figured they will come in handy some day soon)
nothing new but some i wouldn't hesitate to recomend:
an american skin by don degrazia (a great story about a run-away who joins a group of non-racist skins wonderful book especially if you even slightly identify with skin/punk/anarchistic mentalities.)
nutrient timing (available at any gnc, good book geared towards weight lifting but great for understanding how the food you eat impacts your body depending on time) ie:eating mostly carbs w/ alittle bit of protein after a workout will tell your body to stop breaking down muscle and start building more while telling your fat levels to stop storing and start using thus keeping your body from shutting down to conserve itself.
I've got too many book son my to-read list to list here. I tend to buy books which appeal to me whenever I go by a bookstore and then add them to the stack.
Alice in Wonderland and the Sequal
Lost Souls
Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus
Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
A series of unfortunate events
The Gorean Series
The Da Vinci code
Fairy Wars
Memory of Fire
Vincalis the Agitator
Fire in the Mist
Mind of Magic
Sympathy for the Devil
I doubt I'll even get through any but one or two of those before '05 is out considering I still have books for classes I have to read. Still, at least I have a list :)
The Gothic and The Eldritch. **
I made a point of watching the film version of a Mankel film the other night, and was very disappointed indeed. It followed the basic idea of the book but, even though it was in two long parts, missed so much out that the story seemed completely different.
That is the best Michelle Tea book :thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudemuse
I recommend:
What is Anarchism?- By Alexander Berkman
Against Empire- By Michael Parenti
Guerilla Warfare- Ernesto Guevara
I have some new ones
Complete Cometbus Collection by Aaron
BLT by Amelia
Turquoise and Crimson by Jon Crosby (VAST)
Getting sick of school haha.
OEC
WORD!Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
And I have to admit that I've had the hugest schoolgirl crush on her since the first time I read any of her work. If I get a chance to get to the Bay area there will be a trip to see her speak or someone will get kicked.
The sort of bittersweet thing about her work is that you really feel like you've made a friend reading it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudemuse
Michelle and I were both presenters at the Firecracker Book Awards a number of years ago. This was before I'd heard of her, but she said a naughty word very very loudly on stage and I was charmed and we chatted for a while.
When I later read her stuff, I didn't realize it was the same girl, until Clint Catalyst set my ass straight.
She and I were in the same edition of Susie Bright's Best American Erotica and she later moved a few blocks away from me for some time. Aside from occasionally running into her in a used bookstore she worked at and one sort of abortive shoot where we had planned all this elaborate stuff and then her significant other decided that she wasn't allowed to get naked . . . except then she took her shirt off anyway and I didn't know how to proceed . . . well, I'd had this notion after reading her Crue story and Passionate Mistakes, that she and I would be the best of pals if we hung out. I almost felt like a jilted lover that we didn't really connect until I thought about the fact that really she had just written a terrific book which felt personal and moved me and there was no sense expecting it to be more than that. Which is just as well because I've made three runs at getting through Chelsea Whistle with no success.
I wonder how many people react to her writing that way.
Robert Young Pelton's the World's Most Dangerous Places
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmeliaG
I'm not sure about hers in particular but I know that there's a caliber of writing that gets me everytime. Although I've learned not to figure on the 'if we meet we'd be such good friends.'
After meeting a few people who's art/writing/music etc really touched me I have gotten to where my crushes are fine from afar. Although there have been wonderful exceptions.
There's a neat page all about Michelle Tea and what she's up to lately. Lots of very cute lesbians run around posting messages on it. Mmm girls. Wait I'm digressing. I'm very tired I should have been asleep hours ago and now I forgot what my actual point might have been so um....yeah. :shiftysha Let's all just pretend I had a fabulous point.
I dont ever remember the names of my books but I know of quite a few if you do want to know.