The New New Deal or Keeping Pot Illegal

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Mark Frauenfelder at Boing Boing reports that Humboldt County farmers are sporting bumper stickers saying:

Keep Pot Illegal

For the non-Californians amongst you, Humboldt County is an area in California which is sufficiently north of San Francisco that it might as well be hippie Oregon. And the November ballot here in California is going to have a referendum on whether marijuana should be entirely legalized and not solely legal for those with a prescription. Part of the idea is to tax marijuana to help California’s sagging State coffers.

Kevin Drum at...

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Read the full article

I do think keeping things illegal gives them a certain charm that's bound to get lost when big business gets their hands on it, but the overriding argument remains that there's no bloody reason we shouldn't do it and it's a serious injustice every time the government punishes someone for something drug related.

That said, I care much more about stopping the legal persecution of individual users and small time dealers than I care about integrating drugs into the economy. Currently when I buy drugs, it's pretty much the only time when I feel my money is going to someone who deserves it, rather than just someone who has successfully hogged the resources needed to make me hand it over. Twists like that can make my day sometimes.

I have my card so I am covered either way. I never thought about some Californians suffering job loss if it was made properly legal. I still think it should be legal. A lot of people will still pay extra for quality and I know many who would prefer to grow it themselves the way they like it and not purchase from anyone.

The main reason in my opinion, is how much money we waste on cops, courts, and prisons.
I'd much rather see the cops spend their time busting people for actual crimes like robbery or murder, and have the prisons used for people like that, not for people who were caught dealing drugs...

I'd still be for legalization based on the resources wasted arresting, prosecuting, and incarcerating individual users.

I am pro legalizing any substances that can enhance my hedonistic lifestyle.

well...i am an Oregon hippie and I love pot. haha

I don't care if people smoke pot and they certainly should not be going to jail for doing so, but I think that it's really kind of selfish and irrelevant that people waste time and legislation on trying to get pot legalized when there are much more pressing issues that they could be working on.

Homelessness? Health care reform? Immigration? Innocent people on death row? Pollution? Corruption? Domestic violence? Child Abuse?

Naw, let's just smoke a bowl instead.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

I don't care if people smoke pot and they certainly should not be going to jail for doing so, but I think that it's really kind of selfish and irrelevant that people waste time and legislation on trying to get pot legalized when there are much more pressing issues that they could be working on.

Homelessness? Health care reform? Immigration? Innocent people on death row? Pollution? Corruption? Domestic violence? Child Abuse? Naw, let's just smoke a bowl instead.

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Going back to what OEC and DeathKnight were talking about, I do think the money saved by the state for not having to investigate, prosecute, incarcerate, and rehabilitate all those petty drug offenders etc. could really be better used elsewhere, such as homeless shelters and accessible health clinics. Also, I'd certainly rather have the Police time and energy freed up to be working on more serious crimes like the violent ones you mentioned.

oh, I'm sure it'll be legalized.....as soon as they figure out how to license the users

i have my own personal problems with fully legalizing it. i do think it should be decriminalized though. for those who do end up developing 'substance use' issues with it, i think that they can be better served with having the proper support structures in place when and if they do decide or are forced to quit(rehab), than with legal or criminal charges. the money saved by decriminalizing it can be used to more properly fund such support services.

in recent years, it has been great watching pot finally seem to be getting the attention it deserves as a valid research topic and substance worth studying.

I really agree with AXA.

Not to sound like a Ronpauluter here, but can we have less criminals AND less government? How's that for a slogan the Libertarians can use: Get the Government out of my bong!

...or maybe get the government into my bong, since the Constitution is printed on hemp. Lets roll that fatty up and smoke it for all I care.

To sound counter-cultural, "Legalization" of an oppressed group and/or societal taboos seems like the way to white-wash them for mass consumption and exploitation for profit by the same people that kept them down in the first place. It's the same thing with gay marriage.

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

To sound counter-cultural, "Legalization" of an oppressed group and/or societal taboos seems like the way to white-wash them for mass consumption and exploitation for profit by the same people that kept them down in the first place. It's the same thing with gay marriage.

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I do think people's ideology gets lost in the battle and the stuff. Counter-culture always has a problem once they win the fights for their causes. People's identity gets caught up in having opposition. They define themselves from within the context of the conflict. So, when the conflict is over, for whatever reason, it can sometimes be hard for some people to keep their feet under themselves and maintain their self identity. Too many problems never get solved because of this, in my opinion. There are pot-heads that will vote against legalization and gays that will vote against gay marriage.

I would tend to agree with Forrest on the aforementioned tendency. I picture Camus' Rebel saying yes. I would imagine many would not.

One thing I wanted to mention: This is a California Initiative. I would assume it is arising in a few other states. Marijuana would remain illegal under federal law. With medical mj, this has generally led to a lack of cooperation with local law enforcement. It would be possible for the feds to prosecute though. When we legalized medical mj the case went to the Supreme Court. In the Raich Case: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-1454.ZS.html , SCOTUS ruled federal law trumped the state law. I'm not sure what effect this would have in practice.

OEC

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Originally Posted by Morning Glory

I don't care if people smoke pot and they certainly should not be going to jail for doing so, but I think that it's really kind of selfish and irrelevant that people waste time and legislation on trying to get pot legalized when there are much more pressing issues that they could be working on.

Homelessness? Health care reform? Immigration? Innocent people on death row? Pollution? Corruption? Domestic violence? Child Abuse?

Naw, let's just smoke a bowl instead.

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I see nothing wrong with selfishness in such regards. Individuals deserve the freedom to direct their own lives, without having to work over a grocery list of the faults of a system they did not create first.

This applies more to some issues than it does to others, as many of them are so integrated into society that merely by living your life without thinking about it you're likely to be contributing to the problem, but I'm not sure that these are the ones on your list.

People should be expected to act primarily in the pursuit of happiness. Activism and fixing the world are for people drawn to such things, those that get satisfaction out of it - living your life as part of neither the problem nor the solution is still perfectly ethical behavior.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

I do think people's ideology gets lost in the battle and the stuff. Counter-culture always has a problem once they win the fights for their causes. People's identity gets caught up in having opposition. They define themselves from within the context of the conflict. So, when the conflict is over, for whatever reason, it can sometimes be hard for some people to keep their feet under themselves and maintain their self identity. Too many problems never get solved because of this, in my opinion. There are pot-heads that will vote against legalization and gays that will vote against gay marriage.

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It's the binaries of identity at work there, are or are not. Very satisfying, very mind-numbing psychological mechanism.

From a rebel's perspective it can feel like a loss to win a battle for acceptance only to lose your culture to newly lowered behavioral thresholds, but there's not much to be done about it. You move on to edgier things, or take heart in the objective qualities of your chosen behaviour - or ideally, both.

If you legalize pot people will start taking something that's very good for granted. with it illegal it's still takes a little effort to get buzzed..... but take away that effort and what do you have, just another stupid pill and aren't there enough of those already?