"I had sex in front of cops in Dubai while drunk!! Now they wanna jail me for 6 years

You CANNOT make this shit up.

Salient details of the case:

UKian man and woman, WORKING in Dubai and living there.

They get drunk (in an Islamic state - bad idea)
They start making out on a beach (in an Islamic state - bad idea)
They start FUCKING in public (in an Islamic state - BAD IDEA)
A policeman tells them to stop.

He COMES BACK to find them STILL fucking
and they assault him and swear at him (both VERY VERY bad ideas in an Islamic state).

She's been fired. They're waiting to hear if they're gonna get jail time. Could be six years --- and they're playing the whole "I might end up in foreign prison for a moment's mistake".

LADY, YOU'RE 30.
YOU WERE LIVING THERE AND KNEW THE LAWS.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...amy-beach.html

Ya, that's pretty stupid. But speaking of Dubai..
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...6/untitled.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n.../untitled2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

You CANNOT make this shit up.

Salient details of the case:

UKian man and woman, WORKING in Dubai and living there.

They get drunk (in an Islamic state - bad idea)
They start making out on a beach (in an Islamic state - bad idea)
They start FUCKING in public (in an Islamic state - BAD IDEA)
A policeman tells them to stop.

He COMES BACK to find them STILL fucking
and they assault him and swear at him (both VERY VERY bad ideas in an Islamic state).

She's been fired. They're waiting to hear if they're gonna get jail time. Could be six years --- and they're playing the whole "I might end up in foreign prison for a moment's mistake".

LADY, YOU'RE 30.
YOU WERE LIVING THERE AND KNEW THE LAWS.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...amy-beach.html

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UK consulate should give it a go on some plea bargain or persona non grata status for both of them. Incredibly stupid behavior under the circumstances though.

They're fucked if the Goracles are right and the water level rises...

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Originally Posted by One Eyed Cat

UK consulate should give it a go on some plea bargain or persona non grata status for both of them. Incredibly stupid behavior under the circumstances though.

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They should do no such thing.

They should let Dubai jail em for being stupid.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

They should do no such thing.

They should let Dubai jail em for being stupid.

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I think it is probably ill-advised to go to Dubai ever, for any reason, because that place, despite its apparent beauty and tourist-seeking, has really really stupid draconian laws.

That said, six years is a really really stupid draconian sentence for drunk in public first offense.

I think Dubai should stop placing advertorials on travel channels in the US and Europe, if they don't want to deal with this sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

They should do no such thing.

They should let Dubai jail em for being stupid.

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They're within their diplomatic rights to intervene. I'm not saying I view this as akin to foreign journalists being killed etc. It's their call.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

I think it is probably ill-advised to go to Dubai ever, for any reason, because that place, despite its apparent beauty and tourist-seeking, has really really stupid draconian laws.

That said, six years is a really really stupid draconian sentence for drunk in public first offense.

I think Dubai should stop placing advertorials on travel channels in the US and Europe, if they don't want to deal with this sort of thing.

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Naw, it's stacking the charges. Drunkenness, public indecency, being in the presence of a member of the opposite sex you're not married or related to, sex with someone you're not married to, adultery. Oh, that, public indecency and resisting arrest and assaulting an officer of the law.

And the ads? Well, they want your Western MONEY, just not your way of life.

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Originally Posted by One Eyed Cat

They're within their diplomatic rights to intervene. I'm not saying I view this as akin to foreign journalists being killed etc. It's their call.

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Dude, this is weapons grade stupid. The officer was within his rights to arrest them on the spot. That would have happened here, with absolutely NO embassy getting involved. Don't believe me? I'll nail someone on Myrtle beach and then hit a cop, and see how fast the embassy bails me out. Ha!

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Dude, this is weapons grade stupid. The officer was within his rights to arrest them on the spot. That would have happened here, with absolutely NO embassy getting involved. Don't believe me? I'll nail someone on Myrtle beach and then hit a cop, and see how fast the embassy bails me out. Ha!

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I won't shed a tear for them. 6 years is a long time though. All I'm saying is the UK has the discretion to attempt to intervene. Dubai can tell the UK to fuck themselves as well. If I worked at the consulate I would try to get a reduced sentence, I don't think it is going to affect relations between the two countries much either way. A few editorials will disappear in a news cycle or two.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

I think it is probably ill-advised to go to Dubai ever, for any reason, because that place, despite its apparent beauty and tourist-seeking, has really really stupid draconian laws.

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By that strained logic, nobody should go to America because capital punishment is considered unacceptable by many countries in the world.

If you go somewhere, you live by their rules. Period. I traveled through a fair bit of the Middle East and it's perfectly fine and safe provided you don't act like a typically-ignorant tourist and expect to do the same shit in Jeddah that you can do in Florida. Maybe you'd prefer a 'take your laws as luggage' system, in which case the next time a Saudi-born person in the US is mugged, we'll all gather to watch someone's hand being sliced off on the courthouse steps.

It's irrelevant whether you agree with the laws or not - personally I think cannabis should be legal, but I'm not going to go crying to the embassy if I'm busted for it. The UAE has a Sharia legal system - different than the USA, but it's still a legal system. Laws, police, courts, jail. No state-sanctioned torture, no indefinite imprisonment without trial...

.. but where does that remind me of....

you can only ensure a fair trial, not intervene in their law.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

you can only ensure a fair trial, not intervene in their law.

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That's not what I meant by intervention. You can't necessarily insure a fair trial even. They can try to provide representation or negotiate on behalf of their citizens. It wouldn't carry any force under Dubai law. It is certainly often taken into account, however.

As the daughter of a career diplomat, I feel very qualified to say that one of the main functions of US embassies abroad is to make sure that foolish American travelers do not get overly harsh punishments in foreign lands. The US embassies define overly harsh by American standards and not by local ones. I would assume that the UK is similar.

Incidentally, within the United States, we regularly let foreign diplomats get away with all sorts of illegal behavior and we regularly allow them to intervene in our legal processes for their own nationals. Local law may or may not be asserted, but what OEC said about negotiating on behalf of one's citizens being taken into account is wholly accurate.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

you can only ensure a fair trial, not intervene in their law.

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actually they do that all of the time, that's why most countries end up just deporting you, unless you like kill someone.

it's pretty simple, they want your money, but they don't want to put up with your shit.

that's what we call progressive. in most places they don't want your money or your shit and they want to kill you.

Ok, so that's not really true. but the point is for better or worse Dubai is westernizing. but that doesn't mean it's Florida, and people need to keep that in mind.

I kinda like living in a world were people have different "crazy" ideas, and they don't necessarily need to mix. We already got Florida, and they got Mecca, the whole rest of the world doesn't need to be jsut like either of them.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

Incidentally, within the United States, we regularly let foreign diplomats get away with all sorts of illegal behavior and we regularly allow them to intervene in our legal processes for their own nationals

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Diplomatic immunity is entirely different - that is a point of international law, not national statute. This case is about people who knew the law, were told face-to-face what they were doing was illegal, and carried on. "Sorry but we didn't understand. We're foreign yanno.." is not applicable.

If you and I flew to France and killed someone, the embassy would find us an interpreter and explain the legal process, but there's no way in hell we'd be flying home just because we have different color passports.

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Originally Posted by Mindgames

Diplomatic immunity is entirely different - that is a point of international law, not national statute. This case is about people who knew the law, were told face-to-face what they were doing was illegal, and carried on. "Sorry but we didn't understand. We're foreign yanno.." is not applicable.

If you and I flew to France and killed someone, the embassy would find us an interpreter and explain the legal process, but there's no way in hell we'd be flying home just because we have different color passports.

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I know the difference between diplomatic immunity and diplomats intervening on behalf of citizens from the home country.

If someone from France came to America and killed someone horribly in a state with capital punishment, there is a good chance they would receive a less harsh punishment than an American committing the same crime. Because France would not be okay with us executing one of their nationals and their embassy/consulate would intervene, perhaps just politely behind closed doors or in combination with varying amounts of press coverage.

I guarantee you that the drunk fornicating woman will no way do six years time in Dubai. A citizen of Dubai would, but she won't because her home government will interface diplomatically. The story getting press is just part of the process.

Our foregn secretary is David Milliband, and insidious little creature who probably wont lift a finger unless his expense account is at risk.

tbh. they knew the laws. they should have known better. if I went to Dubai I'd at least make an attempt of blend in into their lifestyle. after all its not rainy Brighton ffs. "a moments mistake" does not cut it in this case. they knew alcohol was illegal, and they knew that sober. what alcohol does to people can be very silly even in our own country(i myself have done silly stunts while drunk, its quite common).

yes their laws are draconian in our opinion, but their culture not ours. its a trade-off for making a nice bit of cash, and with the current financial climate back home, i'd not want to jeopardise that at all.

As is usually the cry, "Ignorance is not an excuse!" But these people can't even use that is a plea. They live there. If I was living and working in a foreign country, I'd find out what I could and couldn't do.

Having sex in public and public nudity/lewd conduct is illegal in the UK, so they can't even say they get away with it legally back home. Drunk and disorderly is also an offence in the UK, as is Assaulting an officer of the law.

If they make an example of them, maybe other greedy people working out there will think twice about breaking laws they shouldn't be breaking in their own country. They should not be whining because they got caught. At best, they should be deported and not allowed back in the country or a neighbouring country for a decade! Maybe then they'll learn the correct way to behave in public.

they're lucky they were someplace tolerant like dubia

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Originally Posted by Mindgames

The UAE has a Sharia legal system - different than the USA, but it's still a legal system.

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I personally take a very dim view of religious law being the law of the land. Shar'ia is shameful in the 21st century.

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Originally Posted by inox

I personally take a very dim view of religious law being the law of the land. Shar'ia is shameful in the 21st century.

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Many people would agree - but don't forget that US common law was derived from UK common law, which in turn originated in 14th Century church law. The concepts of trials, juries, civil compensation and professional lawyers all started with the Christian church, as did many of the crimes they still enforce. The only reason murder is a crime is because of the ten commandments.

It's what you're used to, so you see another, very different system as being strange and archaic, but a Muslim can say the same about yours. I don't personally agree with chopping off someone's hand, but neither do I agree with the electric chair.

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Originally Posted by Mindgames

Many people would agree - but don't forget that US common law was derived from UK common law, which in turn originated in 14th Century church law. The concepts of trials, juries, civil compensation and professional lawyers all started with the Christian church, as did many of the crimes they still enforce. The only reason murder is a crime is because of the ten commandments.

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The difference is, in our system, that origin is not as readily apparent. We are getting closer and closer to a system derived from principles of utility (e.g. larceny has to be illegal because it is too disruptive to the order of the society).

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It's what you're used to, so you see another, very different system as being strange and archaic, but a Muslim can say the same about yours. I don't personally agree with chopping off someone's hand, but neither do I agree with the electric chair.

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Yes, but muslim religious law is, by any objective modern standard, backwards if not shameful.

In Turkey, their constitutional court declared that "democracy is the antithesis of Shar'ia". The European Court of Civil Rights similarly affirmed. I couldn't agree more.

I don't get on the cultural relativism train. Some things deserve our condemnation, and being tolerant of intolerance will just result in fewer actual freedoms for everyone.

In short: It's not just different, it's simply not ok.