How do you judge success???

I have been noticing that a lot of people only find someone else to be successful if that person meets or surpasses the level of success they feel they themselves have achieved.

This frustrates me.

We don't all have the same goals. Therefor if I achieve what I want, I feel successful. If someone else's goal is entirely different, but they achieve it, they are successful too. Because they did not reach my goal does not mean they are a failure, even if our accomplishments are in the same catagory.

People are always cutting each other down.

Recently I have noticed a lot of this around me. I try and keep my mouth shut cause people seem to get upset when I suggest that more than one person on the planet can in fact be worthwhile. People don't want to hear that they are not the one and only most fantastic ________ of all times.

How do YOU judge success?




x.

I see life as a continuing journey. Success is simply when you live up to your potential in the here and now. One can't rest on laurels or future plans. One should be proud of the past and plan for the future. Success is in the here and imo.

I believe the phenomena you see id from the phony self-esteem movement mentioned by myself and others here born in the 70s and 80s. I intend to explore this issue in greater detail. Off the cuff though, I think we're bullshitting the kids into a quasi to actual narcissism. I do believe in a healthy ego, but one should look in the mirror to obtain it.

I would need to know more about what is being criticizedto really answer directly.

JT

I love your answer. I don't wanna give all the details of where my inquiry came from, lest I should insult someone. It just kinda made me more aware of how people are always holding themselves up as the shining example of what others should do. And you know how once you notice something like that it starts popping up everywhere, well that is exactly what happened, and now it' kinda like a pet peeve of mine.

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Originally Posted by Scar

I love your answer. I don't wanna give all the details of where my inquiry came from, lest I should insult someone. It just kinda made me more aware of how people are always holding themselves up as the shining example of what others should do. And you know how once you notice something like that it starts popping up everywhere, well that is exactly what happened, and now it' kinda like a pet peeve of mine.

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There's a book you might be interested in called "Generation Me" by Jean Twenge. She gives a more detailed argument. I have to watch myself on this score. Once you return fire, the cycle perpetuates. At the same time, I think would be legitimate to explain to the person what you see them as doing wrong. I tend to be very self-critical so it frustrates me at times as well.

JT

Can, and often do, think of myself as a failure from time to time.

On the other hand, I think if one can accomplish one's goals while remaining true to one's own beliefs, nor hurting others nor oneself in the process, then, I would say that one is successful.

The self-esteem movement that Jackie T mentioned is wrong in that it encourages people to believe that, no matter their actions and their effects on oneself or others, they are inherently "good" and "right".

On the other hand, there's the Simon Cowell school of "I'm All Right, You're Complete Crap", that self-styled tough guys and girls like to affect, and which is equally wrong-headed, because it buys into whatever the dominant culture and its adherents think is "acceptable", and because it doesn't even start to take a hard look at itself and its premises.

Instead, it simply revels in its supposed superiority over others, which is another form of narcissism, in my opinion.

i think a person is successful if they are satisfied with where they are in life. example: a 16 year old working at maccas, earning enough to take his girl to the movies or something every week, pay for his guitar lessons and put the extra money into a savings account may not sound liek the standard success story, but if the dudes 16 he isnt really after much more. if thats all he is looking for until after he finishes school, then at the moment he is a success, to my mind.

success is an absolute, there is nothing to judge

If someone feels good about what they do, who are they are, and makes enough to survive, they are a success.

Success is about happiness not money or fame.

unless of course it takes money or fame for them to feel good about what they are and who they are :p:

I have no idea how one would define success. It is one of those things, like a person's car, where I feel like people are passing judgment on me for it, but I don't have the rule book, so I don't know what their expectations are or how I'm doing.

It makes me crazy though when people get psycho competitive and crown themselves Lord of the Universe and One and Only in an area where other people have achieved way more than they have or have simply also participated.

I think I'm decent with a camera. I have a vision I'm trying to achieve and I generally feel pretty good when I hit it . . . until photography turns into some big contest. I'm not a technical photographer and I don't aim to be. I could probably learn how to shoot a different aesthetic, which might pay more, but that's not my goal. But people who come up with their own ideas of what the goal should be and then get all competitive are a real bummer.

One more thing to add: I actually think there is a trend in presentation for everyone to have to say they are the bestest mostest est est est to get noticed at all. If you just point out that something is high quality and worthwhile, it won't get much notice, but, if you can claim with a straight face, that the thing is the something-est, then people will support a lie on a mediocre product over the truth on a quality one.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

I actually think there is a trend...

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That's been the case from the day advertising first began - Columbus didn't sail back home and pronounce

"Look, I've found this place. It's not the best I've seen - now don't get me wrong, it's reasonable and smells kinda average, but we could probably stick some cows on it and make a moderate living..."

Success now isn't as bad as it was in the 80s (for the babies here you need to remember that Dynasty was a docudrama) but you can't really avoid a society where being 'best' is important when you grade kids from the first day of school and tell them 'being best' is everything. Of course in our society it is - there's no point going all hippy and saying "it's the taking part that counts" when there are 150 million other people trying to win. You join the competition or come last - there's not a third option.


I'll go with a quotation:-

Success is dying happier than your enemy

heh i like my one better: success is dying after youre enemy :p:

Well.

I define success materially, because that is upon what I am judged.

Noone really cares how artistic, how self-actualised, etc. etc. etc. I am. It's all about how much child support can be gouged out of me, and prospective new dates (not even playing THAT game any more) want to know how much money I have left.

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Originally Posted by Mindgames

You join the competition or come last - there's not a third option.


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well of course there are other options MG. whether other people choose to reconize them or not is another matter.

(game theory has alot to say about competition)

oh... and i define success one dead objectivist at a time.

Nothing spells succsess like guinness

It depends on how you define success. If you look at it in terms of "popularity or profit", then it's easy to objectively judge it. If you decide to go more with "achieves desired aims", it becomes rather subjective.

For me, I am successful when I am feeling fulfilled and yet not sedentary.

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Originally Posted by Mindgames

That's been the case from the day advertising first began - Columbus didn't sail back home and pronounce

"Look, I've found this place. It's not the best I've seen - now don't get me wrong, it's reasonable and smells kinda average, but we could probably stick some cows on it and make a moderate living..."

Success now isn't as bad as it was in the 80s (for the babies here you need to remember that Dynasty was a docudrama) but you can't really avoid a society where being 'best' is important when you grade kids from the first day of school and tell them 'being best' is everything. Of course in our society it is - there's no point going all hippy and saying "it's the taking part that counts" when there are 150 million other people trying to win. You join the competition or come last - there's not a third option.


I'll go with a quotation:-

Success is dying happier than your enemy

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Maybe I missed the point when being graded in school. Actually, this is likely as I had a tendency to sometimes get a lesson a bit different from what was intended. But grades were completely something which made me think people could say they were good without having to be best. I could get an A and my pal could get an A and we could all be good students without anyone having to start yapping about how they were best and nobody else had ever learned anything before they personally cracked a book.

Success is happiness and deep contentment with your life.

=) yay I'm Successful!

I think people buy into the falsehood that somehow success is a limited resource and so long as you can knock someone else away from achieving their goals, and/or undermine their self confidence, you will have a better chance at getting the brass ring yourself. But, I don't think success usually has to be about winning some contest you've defined in your head. A trophy you can't share with anyone just doesn't feel that good to me.

One of the things that gets under my skin the most, and happens a lot these days, is that people who feel they are doing somewhat similar things will actively avoid one another. I can't tell you how many people think they are alt-photographers, hip bloggers, cool site owners, or whatever that straight up refuse to have a coffee or a beer with me. I'm the enemy or some nonsense.

So yeah, the ones that claim to be the mostest but refuse to acknowledge any others in the field, they really frustrate me. They are one of the mostest destructive forces that undermine every community I care about. I'll give them that one.

My goals involve both personal aspirations as well as social and community aspirations, and to achieve personal goals when the community gets poisoned by people trying to deplete 'resources' just takes a lot of the pleasantness out of it. I want to create good things, and I want to be able to enjoy the cool things other people create and I want to be able to enjoy them all with the other cool creative successful people. I know it's asking a lot, but that is what would make me feel best.

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

I think people buy into the falsehood that somehow success is a limited resource and so long as you can knock someone else away from achieving their goals, and/or undermine their self confidence, you will have a better chance at getting the brass ring yourself. But, I don't think success usually has to be about winning some contest you've defined in your head. A trophy you can't share with anyone just doesn't feel that good to me.

One of the things that gets under my skin the most, and happens a lot these days, is that people who feel they are doing somewhat similar things will actively avoid one another. I can't tell you how many people think they are alt-photographers, hip bloggers, cool site owners, or whatever that straight up refuse to have a coffee or a beer with me. I'm the enemy or some nonsense.

So yeah, the ones that claim to be the mostest but refuse to acknowledge any others in the field, they really frustrate me. They are one of the mostest destructive forces that undermine every community I care about. I'll give them that one.

My goals involve both personal aspirations as well as social and community aspirations, and to achieve personal goals when the community gets poisoned by people trying to deplete 'resources' just takes a lot of the pleasantness out of it. I want to create good things, and I want to be able to enjoy the cool things other people create and I want to be able to enjoy them all with the other cool creative successful people. I know it's asking a lot, but that is what would make me feel best.

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I fully concur with that opinion, Forrest.

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Originally Posted by Amelia G

I have no idea how one would define success. It is one of those things, like a person's car, where I feel like people are passing judgment on me for it, but I don't have the rule book, so I don't know what their expectations are or how I'm doing.

It makes me crazy though when people get psycho competitive and crown themselves Lord of the Universe and One and Only in an area where other people have achieved way more than they have or have simply also participated.

I think I'm decent with a camera. I have a vision I'm trying to achieve and I generally feel pretty good when I hit it . . . until photography turns into some big contest. I'm not a technical photographer and I don't aim to be. I could probably learn how to shoot a different aesthetic, which might pay more, but that's not my goal. But people who come up with their own ideas of what the goal should be and then get all competitive are a real bummer.

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If those people are setting the goal + being all competitive, they are just being silly. They will "win" no matter what. Quite a pyrrhic victory, but it is all but futile to really fight it.

JT

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Originally Posted by ForrestBlack

I think people buy into the falsehood that somehow success is a limited resource and so long as you can knock someone else away from achieving their goals, and/or undermine their self confidence, you will have a better chance at getting the brass ring yourself. But, I don't think success usually has to be about winning some contest you've defined in your head. A trophy you can't share with anyone just doesn't feel that good to me.

One of the things that gets under my skin the most, and happens a lot these days, is that people who feel they are doing somewhat similar things will actively avoid one another. I can't tell you how many people think they are alt-photographers, hip bloggers, cool site owners, or whatever that straight up refuse to have a coffee or a beer with me. I'm the enemy or some nonsense.

So yeah, the ones that claim to be the mostest but refuse to acknowledge any others in the field, they really frustrate me. They are one of the mostest destructive forces that undermine every community I care about. I'll give them that one.

My goals involve both personal aspirations as well as social and community aspirations, and to achieve personal goals when the community gets poisoned by people trying to deplete 'resources' just takes a lot of the pleasantness out of it. I want to create good things, and I want to be able to enjoy the cool things other people create and I want to be able to enjoy them all with the other cool creative successful people. I know it's asking a lot, but that is what would make me feel best.

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I don't think it is asking too much. I guess my question would be: Are these "mostest" folks part of your actual community? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy works that come from folks that may well be jackasses in person. Are they really a part of *any* community though?

JT

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Originally Posted by Mindgames

That's been the case from the day advertising first began - Columbus didn't sail back home and pronounce

"Look, I've found this place. It's not the best I've seen - now don't get me wrong, it's reasonable and smells kinda average, but we could probably stick some cows on it and make a moderate living..."

Success now isn't as bad as it was in the 80s (for the babies here you need to remember that Dynasty was a docudrama) but you can't really avoid a society where being 'best' is important when you grade kids from the first day of school and tell them 'being best' is everything. Of course in our society it is - there's no point going all hippy and saying "it's the taking part that counts" when there are 150 million other people trying to win. You join the competition or come last - there's not a third option.


I'll go with a quotation:-

Success is dying happier than your enemy

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Schools these days tend not to do that though. The kids are automatically "the best" regardless of what they actually do. They believe it. While some may be slayed by actual competition, I think "competition" has become a source of delusion for many. I hate to paraphrase Mary-Lin, but are we not all stars in the dope show now?

JT

Success to me means that I am happy with what I have done with my life. It doesn’t necessarily have to be monetary or status driven. I agree with Scar that it’s striving for goals you set for yourself and then achieving them. For instance, I don’t believe a man is successful just because he was born within a wealthy family and has been handed a job. That he wears designer suits and lives in a gated community, etc. It means he was born under different circumstances.
If you are happy with the person you are and the choices you’ve made you are successful in my opinion…