NYT: Dumb and Dumber: Are Americans Hostile to Knowledge?

This reminded me of threads I've read some people here bemoan, related to the What is the Stupidest thing you've heard anyone say thread. It won't let me post the link yet.

Dumb and Dumber: Are Americans Hostile to Knowledge?

By PATRICIA COHEN
Published: February 14, 2008

A popular video on YouTube shows Kellie Pickler, the adorable platinum blonde from “American Idol,” appearing on the Fox game show “Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?” during celebrity week. Selected from a third-grade geography curriculum, the $25,000 question asked: “Budapest is the capital of what European country?”

Ms. Pickler threw up both hands and looked at the large blackboard perplexed. “I thought Europe was a country,” she said. Playing it safe, she chose to copy the answer offered by one of the genuine fifth graders: Hungary. “Hungry?” she said, eyes widening in disbelief. “That’s a country? I’ve heard of Turkey. But Hungry? I’ve never heard of it.”

Such, uh, lack of global awareness is the kind of thing that drives Susan Jacoby, author of “The Age of American Unreason,” up a wall. Ms. Jacoby is one of a number of writers with new books that bemoan the state of American culture.

Joining the circle of curmudgeons this season is Eric G. Wilson, whose “Against Happiness” warns that the “American obsession with happiness” could “well lead to a sudden extinction of the creative impulse, that could result in an extermination as horrible as those foreshadowed by global warming and environmental crisis and nuclear proliferation.”

Then there is Lee Siegel’s “Against the Machine: Being Human in the Age of the Electronic Mob,” which inveighs against the Internet for encouraging solipsism, debased discourse and arrant commercialization. Mr. Siegel, one might remember, was suspended by The New Republic for using a fake online persona in order to trash critics of his blog (“you couldn’t tie Siegel’s shoelaces”) and to praise himself (“brave, brilliant”).

Ms. Jacoby, whose book came out on Tuesday, doesn’t zero in on a particular technology or emotion, but rather on what she feels is a generalized hostility to knowledge. She is well aware that some may tag her a crank. “I expect to get bashed,” said Ms. Jacoby, 62, either as an older person who upbraids the young for plummeting standards and values, or as a secularist whose defense of scientific rationalism is a way to disparage religion.

Ms. Jacoby, however, is quick to point out that her indictment is not limited by age or ideology. Yes, she knows that eggheads, nerds, bookworms, longhairs, pointy heads, highbrows and know-it-alls have been mocked and dismissed throughout American history. And liberal and conservative writers, from Richard Hofstadter to Allan Bloom, have regularly analyzed the phenomenon and offered advice.

T. J. Jackson Lears, a cultural historian who edits the quarterly review Raritan, said, “The tendency to this sort of lamentation is perennial in American history,” adding that in periods “when political problems seem intractable or somehow frozen, there is a turn toward cultural issues.”

But now, Ms. Jacoby said, something different is happening: anti-intellectualism (the attitude that “too much learning can be a dangerous thing”) and anti-rationalism (“the idea that there is no such things as evidence or fact, just opinion”) have fused in a particularly insidious way.

Not only are citizens ignorant about essential scientific, civic and cultural knowledge, she said, but they also don’t think it matters.

She pointed to a 2006 National Geographic poll that found nearly half of 18- to 24-year-olds don’t think it is necessary or important to know where countries in the news are located. So more than three years into the Iraq war, only 23 percent of those with some college could locate Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Israel on a map.

Ms. Jacoby, dressed in a bright red turtleneck with lipstick to match, was sitting, appropriately, in that temple of knowledge, the New York Public Library’s majestic Beaux Arts building on Fifth Avenue. The author of seven other books, she was a fellow at the library when she first got the idea for this book back in 2001, on 9/11.

Walking home to her Upper East Side apartment, she said, overwhelmed and confused, she stopped at a bar. As she sipped her bloody mary, she quietly listened to two men, neatly dressed in suits. For a second she thought they were going to compare that day’s horrifying attack to the Japanese bombing in 1941 that blew America into World War II:

“This is just like Pearl Harbor,” one of the men said.

The other asked, “What is Pearl Harbor?”

“That was when the Vietnamese dropped bombs in a harbor, and it started the Vietnam War,” the first man replied.

At that moment, Ms. Jacoby said, “I decided to write this book.”

Ms. Jacoby doesn’t expect to revolutionize the nation’s educational system or cause millions of Americans to switch off “American Idol” and pick up Schopenhauer. But she would like to start a conversation about why the United States seems particularly vulnerable to such a virulent strain of anti-intellectualism. After all, “the empire of infotainment doesn’t stop at the American border,” she said, yet students in many other countries consistently outperform American students in science, math and reading on comparative tests.

In part, she lays the blame on a failing educational system. “Although people are going to school more and more years, there’s no evidence that they know more,” she said.

Ms. Jacoby also blames religious fundamentalism’s antipathy toward science, as she grieves over surveys that show that nearly two-thirds of Americans want creationism to be taught along with evolution.

Ms. Jacoby doesn’t leave liberals out of her analysis, mentioning the New Left’s attacks on universities in the 1960s, the decision to consign African-American and women’s studies to an “academic ghetto” instead of integrating them into the core curriculum, ponderous musings on rock music and pop culture courses on everything from sitcoms to fat that trivialize college-level learning.

Avoiding the liberal or conservative label in this particular argument, she prefers to call herself a “cultural conservationist.”

For all her scholarly interests, though, Ms. Jacoby said she recognized just how hard it is to tune out the 24/7 entertainment culture. A few years ago she participated in the annual campaign to turn off the television for a week. “I was stunned at how difficult it was for me,” she said.

The surprise at her own dependency on electronic and visual media made her realize just how pervasive the culture of distraction is and how susceptible everyone is — even curmudgeons.

Pretty sure stupid people are a world wide phenomena.

they are, but people follow to a great degree american trends worldwide. if one wants to tackle a group problem, start with the group rolemodel and everyone else will follow them.

i like this, though:
people are getting less and less intelligent. what do you have to say about that, mr T.J. Jackson Lears?
"The tendency to this sort of lamentation is perennial in American history."
well sir, im sure that will help them understand. thank you for your time.

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Originally Posted by Exquisite

Heard a great one on the radio today about two guys talking in the US after 9/11:

Guy 1: Wow this is just like Pearl Harbor.
Guy 2: Whats Pearl Harbor?
Guy 1: Its when the Vietnamese dropped the bombs on the harbor in Hawaii and started the Vietnam war.

o.O yah ok guys ... blarg.

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hey I heard about that one!

Apathetic might be more appropriate than hostile. I think a lot of Americans aren't anti-book-learnin', they just don't care.

All over the Western World, we've now set it up where it's not advantageous to be cultured or smart.

You could go to school for eight years and work damn hard at some really complex academic shit, and end up working for peanuts, or you could go learn to be a plumber, and make six figures.

You could learn to play an instrument really well and learn some wonderful songcrafting, or you could get shot a few times, talk a bunch of mushmouthed gang nonsense over a metronome, and drive a Mucielago.

People are proud to be ignorant because it's seen as elitist and pointless to be otherwise.

It isnt ignorance it desire to better ones self! Western World has lost the drive, to better itself above all others. I blame multiculturalism mind set, which in my mind has done more damage than any bomb or bullet. PC bullshit...

People don't care about being cultured, it isn't about ignorance. Maybe the cult now is American Idol, we are just looking at in the wrong light. Me, thinks not!

At least where I am at in Atlanta, there is a looking downs ones nose at people that have trade skill rather than having the academic ones. Myself I am small business owner that happens to be in the building industry. I didn't go to college, nor was I best student in school. But i have more worldly, business, people knowledge, Than my counter part getting out of college right now.

The only way you learn about the world is going out and seeing it. Books are fine, about things you can not see is wonderfull. Plato, Marcus Aurelius, Hannibal, ect,,

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

All over the Western World, we've now set it up where it's not advantageous to be cultured or smart.

You could go to school for eight years and work damn hard at some really complex academic shit, and end up working for peanuts, or you could go learn to be a plumber, and make six figures.

You could learn to play an instrument really well and learn some wonderful songcrafting, or you could get shot a few times, talk a bunch of mushmouthed gang nonsense over a metronome, and drive a Mucielago.

People are proud to be ignorant because it's seen as elitist and pointless to be otherwise.

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I've noticed the use of the word *elitist* increase in exactly this context. I almost find the misuse of the term as an "elitism" of ignorance in its own right. It seems autodidactic folks are the first truly identifying the problem. I fear academia may have unwittingly contributed to it via K-12 "self-esteem" folly in the public schools. At the same time, it is our only salvation.

You hit the nail on the head.

JT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jackie T.

I've noticed the use of the word *elitist* increase in exactly this context. I almost find the misuse of the term as an "elitism" of ignorance in its own right. It seems autodidactic folks are the first truly identifying the problem. I fear academia may have unwittingly contributed to it via K-12 "self-esteem" folly in the public schools. At the same time, it is our only salvation.

You hit the nail on the head.

JT

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Well, the way I look at it, society changes to value what is evolutionarily fit.

A tan once was the sign of a poor farmer, so porcelain fine pale skin was prized. Then, when paleness was the hallmark of the poor factory worker and a tan the privilege of the upper classes who could holiday on the Continent, we prized a tan.

Likewise, some day soon we'll see the guy who's living communally, not killing himself to buy a H2 as someone interested in a sustainable future as something desirable (evolutionarily fit to see survival long term) not as a guy with no future who won't be able to buy me all the presents I want.

It's interesting, but now that home ownership is simply out of reach of the middle class in most places, younger women are placing either hyperbaric amounts of interest in cash money, (the serious minority) or liking a bit of bling here and there but motivated as much by other concerns as money.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Well, the way I look at it, society changes to value what is evolutionarily fit.

A tan once was the sign of a poor farmer, so porcelain fine pale skin was prized. Then, when paleness was the hallmark of the poor factory worker and a tan the privilege of the upper classes who could holiday on the Continent, we prized a tan.

Likewise, some day soon we'll see the guy who's living communally, not killing himself to buy a H2 as someone interested in a sustainable future as something desirable (evolutionarily fit to see survival long term) not as a guy with no future who won't be able to buy me all the presents I want.

It's interesting, but now that home ownership is simply out of reach of the middle class in most places, younger women are placing either hyperbaric amounts of interest in cash money, (the serious minority) or liking a bit of bling here and there but motivated as much by other concerns as money.

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I've noticed that more here in MN. The middle class is shrinking, but home ownership is still within reach. It kind of surprised me how often younger women I know bring up finances. It really depends on the priorities of the individual woman, but it is a reality that economics will play an increasingly important role in the "dating ritual" as it were.

JT

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Velvet-Tongue

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good point.

Trying to help someone understand that making a blanket statement for an entire country is lame. Then them trying to tell said country that its our fault that people in other countries are stupid made my head hurt.

It reminds me when I visited London and went to the bookstore.

Storeclerk: Where you from?
Me: US
Storeclerk: Do you know they recently had a student **** a teacher here?
Me: Well thats horrible man.
Storeclerk: Yeah your violent Tv and Videogames caused that.
Me: Yup because England has no history of violent wars, colonialism, and ****.

He finally shut up then started asking me if I was a christian and if America was turning back to God.

Obviously the guy was stupid. I know I can't blame Englang for him being stupid since everyone else I met there was pretty cool.

In conclusion, blarghshsha.

i apologise for that kitten felcher, probably a student who's blinkered and fed to much leftist propaganda to even hope to a balanced view on anything (used to love baiting them and winning in university debates)

When i was in Yipsilanti the people there were great, i couldn't fault anyone aside from a drunken argument over something silly (two nerds drunk at a wedding arguing over boffers over injection moulded weapons in LARP, in my defence, you have captain morgans rum over there with mug handles it just encouraged me to drink it without the 5 mins pause needed to top up a glass).

people over here seem to presume that Americans on large are dumb. its a case of blame others for their general ignorance.

i see the above observations on whether "are Americans hostile to knowledge" daily in the UK with fellow brits. and it seems the labour government is breeding more of them by using our education system as a shite rag.

i hate the way people like the above store clerk instead of trying to understand people, force a generalisation on the person/victim.

i'm argumentative, arrogant and with a hubris the size of Germany, but some people eclipse me without having the reasoning to back their arguments.

My seven year old son told his teacher a few years ago in first grade I believe it was that dolphins can in fact kill sharks. She didn't know that.

For road games in our car we used to play Dinosaur alphabet. We would take turns with letters of the alphabet in order giving the scientific names of dinosaurs when he was five, my daughter was about eight, and my youngest son was two. If you could not name a dinosaur you had to name an era or some other prehistoric creature.

All you have to do is not let your kids be ignorant. Kids are sponges. They absorb any info you throw at them.

I kid you not there are kids in 7th grade here who can not spell anything complicated because all through school they have been told "spell it how it sounds".

There has been talk in some Florida schools of removing George Washington from the history books. WHY???? In England dont you have to memorize every royal that ruled? Why should they leave our leaders out of our history?

Every friend I have ever had from Europe has known at least 2-3 languages by 6th grade. Here we dont even start studying them until 6th grade. I hate that about our schools so I count and say a few sentences to my kids all the time in at least four languages just to get their intrest in foriegn languages up. I dont understand why America insists on living in ignorance but it seems this country doesn't give a rats ass about their childrens education as long as they have $50,000 cars and big screen tvs. No one wants to put their money into the educational system. Everyone bitches their taxes are going to the schools because they "dont have children in the school system." Your future doctors and nurses, world leaders, paramedics, tax office staff, and insurance auditors are, dipshit, so you should probably want them to be able to spell their own fucking name ...right?

Dude, seriously ---- you're right.

You'd think people were considering their kids a burden or something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BookOfFaeye

In England dont you have to memorize every royal that ruled? Why should they leave our leaders out of our history?

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good god no. there's to many of them.

but people cant name the kings or prime ministers during the great war and the second world war.

a little bit of trivia but my mate who used to join me in baiting the American students in our university in arguments was the last i heard teaching American history in Boston. allsorts of jokes about that

We are living in the age of ignorance. Very Sad.... what our government doesn't want us to know. All i gotta say is "knowledge is power"

I second that ^^