Anti- or Pro-Abortion: Discuss...

A discussion started between my wife and myself, though it was a bit one-sided, as we both feel the same way.

We got a leaflet through the door about Anti-Abortion and we started just chatting about it. We feel that a woman should not be told what she can and can't do with her body. This leaflet was talking about "potential life" and how aborting a foetus is murder.

Thing is, where do you stop at "potential life"? Do you say that a man that masturbates but doesn't save the semen is killing thousands of "potential lives"? Does a lesbian woman that doesn't have her eggs harvested for IVF waste all the "potential lives" that her body gets rid of each month?

I was just wondering what other people think.

It would have to be actual birth. I agree roughly with the current case law in the U.S. I hope they put no further restrictions on abortion.

i would have to agree..pro.... when does something become a human anyway? that would be the real question, right?

While I do not advocate abortion and thinkit should be discouraged unless medically necessary, I think it should be safe and legal, mainly because if you outlaw it more people will go back to having very dangerous back alley abortions, I also respect the fact that women have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies, although for me the fact that this is dealing with terminating a potential human life gives me mixed feelings in that respect.

Pro-Choice here. What a woman does with her body is her decision. Doubt you'll find many Pro-Lifer's here. (I hate that term. Its such a spin on shit. They should call it Anti-Abortion at the very least.)

Calling them Pro-Life makes Pro-Choice people look like death loving savages or something.

Pro-choice, all the way. Do I really need to explain why? I've never been a fan of other people telling me what to do. I know what's right for me, end of discussion.

The most romantic thing my ex ever said to me was "Hey if I get knocked up, would you kick me down the stairs?" to which I replied "Baby, I'll take you to the Art Museum"

my views on this vary from one extreme to the other although I think I tend more towards pro abortion than pro life.............. I'd probably be ok with retro-abortions too

Not my damn choice. You do what you do and that is that. The whole fucking pro-life is against the one thing a human must have, free will.

Pro Choice. I've always firmly believed if guy's could have babies, that Pro-Choice would be the norm... As a woman, it seems like it should be a 'duh' thing that she have rights over what's happening with and inside her own body. I've angered quite a few men when I've flat out told them that a woman has a right to choose when, where, and how she has her babies. Both in situations of abortions, and weather to have children period.

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Originally Posted by Wickedanima

Pro Choice. I've always firmly believed if guy's could have babies, that Pro-Choice would be the norm... As a woman, it seems like it should be a 'duh' thing that she have rights over what's happening with and inside her own body. I've angered quite a few men when I've flat out told them that a woman has a right to choose when, where, and how she has her babies. Both in situations of abortions, and weather to have children period.

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I like the answer by which kids don't appear :thumb:

OEC

I think maybe we should rename "Pro-Life" as Anti-Choice. Calling them Pro-Lifers puts myself (amongst others) in the bracket of "Anti-Lifer", and I'm not Anti-Life, just against forcing a woman to have a child they may not want or be able to raise properly. There are definitel some people in the UK that should have been given compulsory abortions as they obviously only see children as a meal ticket.

Pro choice, for the record, means supporting the choice.

If a woman wants a baby, then that should be supported.

I have a friend who's found out recently she's been made pregnant by someone she had a brief, disastrous affair with. She wants to keep the baby. I talk to her nightly, am ramping her up on cloth diapering, water births, what to expect, to keep edible nonperishable food where she'll be nursing, when she can realistically expect to be something other than a zombified milk machine (not saying any of this in a nasty way - but in a "you won't be going back to work the next week" way)

Why this? Because it's her choice to have the baby, and I'm gonna chip in for her shower, I would have organised it if she hadn't had someone do that first. And if I was in the area, I'd babysit occasionally if she'd trust me.

And if she wanted to not have the baby, I'd drive her to and from the appt. And kayo any asshole who gave her grief.

pro life.
I'll never ever EVER have an abortion. abortion is murder in my opinion.
however, I also belive in free will, and not taking choices away from someone just because they don't agree with my personal politics. I think abortion should be safe and leagal, but I also think it is killing someone.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Pro choice, for the record, means supporting the choice.

If a woman wants a baby, then that should be supported.

I have a friend who's found out recently she's been made pregnant by someone she had a brief, disastrous affair with. She wants to keep the baby. I talk to her nightly, am ramping her up on cloth diapering, water births, what to expect, to keep edible nonperishable food where she'll be nursing, when she can realistically expect to be something other than a zombified milk machine (not saying any of this in a nasty way - but in a "you won't be going back to work the next week" way)

Why this? Because it's her choice to have the baby, and I'm gonna chip in for her shower, I would have organised it if she hadn't had someone do that first. And if I was in the area, I'd babysit occasionally if she'd trust me.

And if she wanted to not have the baby, I'd drive her to and from the appt. And kayo any asshole who gave her grief.

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I agree with this. great post, BP.

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Pro choice, for the record, means supporting the choice.

If a woman wants a baby, then that should be supported.

I have a friend who's found out recently she's been made pregnant by someone she had a brief, disastrous affair with. She wants to keep the baby. I talk to her nightly, am ramping her up on cloth diapering, water births, what to expect, to keep edible nonperishable food where she'll be nursing, when she can realistically expect to be something other than a zombified milk machine (not saying any of this in a nasty way - but in a "you won't be going back to work the next week" way)

Why this? Because it's her choice to have the baby, and I'm gonna chip in for her shower, I would have organised it if she hadn't had someone do that first. And if I was in the area, I'd babysit occasionally if she'd trust me.

And if she wanted to not have the baby, I'd drive her to and from the appt. And kayo any asshole who gave her grief.

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Yeah I'd do the same. I don't like the idea of abortion, but it should be her choice either way.

Pro-Choice in most cases.

I went over scenarios with one of my best friends about this topic and tried to picture myself in them.

For example, what if you had been sexually assaulted and gotten pregnant. Personally, I would have an abortion in that case because to me, having the child would probably bring up mixed feelings about the situation and how the child came to be and I don't think I could handle that.

In cases where the Mother abuses drugs and alcohol, since this can be a huge factor on the childs health and well-being, I think abortions are an option. But, I think there should be circumstances in some cases. Like trying to sober the woman up before she goes back into the world where it will likely happen again.

And finally, I think abortions could be necassary for a woman who may have health issues or difficulities during pregnancy that could jeopardize the womans life.

Just for the sake of .... discussion.

AND looking at the issue, that life begins at conception....

TO THOSE ON THE BIRTH CONTROL PILL
ARE you aware that OVULATION STILL OCCUR...so can conception, even though the birth control can keep it from attaching.....
causing a morning after PILL type of abortion.

TO THOSE WHO ARE PRO LIFE.... DOES THIS CHANGE YOUR TAKE ON THE PILL?

Pro-Choice, I'm just not certain it would be my choice. Which is why I am very careful.

Pro-choice 1,000%. To me, it's far more unethical to bring an unwanted child into the world than it is to end a pregnancy. ****, incest, drug abuse and medical complications are all exceptionally good reasons to consider abortion, but they are not the only reasons. Ushering a new human being into the world should be a joyous event, not something that a woman is forced into because of an accident.

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Originally Posted by OrganizedKhaos

Just for the sake of .... discussion.

AND looking at the issue, that life begins at conception....

TO THOSE ON THE BIRTH CONTROL PILL
ARE you aware that OVULATION STILL OCCUR...so can conception, even though the birth control can keep it from attaching.....
causing a morning after PILL type of abortion.

TO THOSE WHO ARE PRO LIFE.... DOES THIS CHANGE YOUR TAKE ON THE PILL?

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no.
I don't take the pill. I don't take any western medicine including hormonal birth control.
I stand by my post. i'm pro choice but not for myself. i'm pro life for myself. what other people do is none of my business. it's a free fucking country.

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Originally Posted by VoltaireBlue

no.
I don't take the pill. I don't take any western medicine including hormonal birth control.
I stand by my post. i'm pro choice but not for myself. i'm pro life for myself. what other people do is none of my business. it's a free fucking country.

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Excellent post, VB. And not just to return the favour.

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Originally Posted by Kidthorazine

While I do not advocate abortion and thinkit should be discouraged unless medically necessary, I think it should be safe and legal, mainly because if you outlaw it more people will go back to having very dangerous back alley abortions, I also respect the fact that women have the right to choose what to do with their own bodies, although for me the fact that this is dealing with terminating a potential human life gives me mixed feelings in that respect.

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I definitely agree this with statement. I personally couldn't abort but I have no problem with women who can or do at all.

That being said I've known a few girls who have had abortions several times and could have easily prevented pregnancy but just didn't. Whether it be all out not using any protection at all or messing up on their birth control and not caring to take extra precautions. That I do have a problem with. I've taken plan B for the the times I messed up on birth control and its very easy to obtain. I really wish more women would use that. I mean I realize there will still be pregnancies but it certainly helps prevent them in emergency cases.

its hard to say when the brain develops enough

when does the little "tumor" turn into a "being"

to me its like if you shove some one off a cliff and they grab onto your leg

if you remove them and they fall and die did you commit murder?

if you have sex you should assume you are making a baby

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Originally Posted by bohoki

its hard to say when the brain develops enough

when does the little "tumor" turn into a "being"

to me its like if you shove some one off a cliff and they grab onto your leg

if you remove them and they fall and die did you commit murder?

if you have sex you should assume you are making a baby

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Does that include gay sex?

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Originally Posted by VoltaireBlue

no.
I don't take the pill. I don't take any western medicine including hormonal birth control.
I stand by my post. i'm pro choice but not for myself. i'm pro life for myself. what other people do is none of my business. it's a free fucking country.

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It's a principled stance. Always respect folks who can separate the two issues at play. :thumb:

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Originally Posted by Bikerpunk

Does that include gay sex?

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uh no buttbabies dont count

I guess it all really does come down to when you define life starts. If you think it starts at conception, then you really have no option but to be pro-life, unless you think murder should be legal. It's different if you think the baby is only considered a person at some other point along the way. It's really not a cut a dried issue. Certainly when it comes to physical health of the mother issues or babies that have congenital defects things get more complicated. I personally tend to lean to the pro-life side of things, but fully understand there are lots of grey areas. But it's a very hard issue to debate since it comes down to first principles and if both sides are arguing from different starting points, there is no way to come to an agreement.

Yeah but regardless of what anyone does legally, abortions will still happen. They have happened for thousands of years....I'd rather someone be clean and safe about it if its going to happen regardless.

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Originally Posted by Syrran

Yeah but regardless of what anyone does legally, abortions will still happen. They have happened for thousands of years....I'd rather someone be clean and safe about it if its going to happen regardless.

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All things considered, going back to my point...murders have been going on for millions of years. No need to make them clean and safe is there?
:cool:

i'm adopted so anti.... but then again, i believe there are reasons for abortion... so pro... maybe i should run for office!

I'm pro-abortion. In some cases it should be mandatory. ;)

I think its the mother decision because she is bearing that child for 9months, I am if we all (guys and girls and whatever) could bear children there wouldn't be a question on abortion being bad.

Pro, entirely and completely.

No interest the state can put forth trumps a woman's right to dominion over her own body. Even if you want to view life as beginning as conception, sustaining another's life with one's own constitution can only occur with consent.

Pro-Abortion Here.

People need to understand a semenized Egg (yeah I made that term up)
isn't a fucking human being.

In George Carlin's Words:
"If a fetus is a human being, why don't they have a funeral when there is a miscarriage?
if a fetus is a baby, why don't they say the baby is 9months old when he is born?"

Abortion is nothing more than Biological Term limits, and even if a fetus is a human being and it is an act of murder, it should be fine as well as it is for a woman to shoot a guy who is trespassing public property. Her body is her property so she should be able to decide if she will let the "baby" stay.

Nuff Said.

They are trying to redefine certain forms of contraception as abortion. Mostly the Morning-After Pill, as they are saying that it kills the embryo in the early stages.

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Originally Posted by Black Spiral Dancer

They are trying to redefine certain forms of contraception as abortion. Mostly the Morning-After Pill, as they are saying that it kills the embryo in the early stages.

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I once had a condom break. I immediately used a ton of spermicide, even though I'm allergic to it and then tried to get the morning after pill. I lived in Connecticut at the time. We had Planned Parenthood and my school had a health center, but it was absolutely impossible to even track down how to get one, much less get one.

It's always good to have a Plan B. I've only ever had to use it once, but it's reassuring to know it's out there.

Yeah I used Plan B once with my ex-GF... condom breaking situation too.