New York Times Front Page Photo

[Tequila Zaire]

Anyone else seen this yet? It's a hell of a brutal image...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...MIDEAST650.jpg

[Amethyst]

From Israel?

[CPRB]

yeah yesterday...it's sad...I dunno what to think about this world anymore.

[postcoital]

yeah yesterday...it's sad...I dunno what to think about this world anymore.

I hope someone digs out some old nuclear weapons and blows up the whole world. That's #1 on my christmas wishlist.

[Tequila Zaire]

Even more sick this was celebrtated in the streets...as much as I understand Palestine and it's views...acts like this completely destroy any sympathy and reason they try to create...once you kill people riding to work, home, school, etc. for political reasons...you pretty lose credibility for ones cause.

[TheQuietPlace]

I am sorry, I dont know them, but I am very sorry. Sorry for their family having to endure this pain. Someone from Seattle Decided it was a good idea to come to a city about an hour away and hang himself at my school. I cried several times that day.

[CPRB]

thething is, I am so mixed on this, one day I am like godamn Isrealis, then this happens and I am like wow you sure threw th wrench in it palastines when you want to

[KilLAtomiK]

I am sorry, I dont know them, but I am very sorry. Sorry for their family having to endure this pain. Someone from Seattle Decided it was a good idea to come to a city about an hour away and hang himself at my school. I cried several times that day.

did you know the guy?

[TheQuietPlace]

did you know the guy?

Nope... But I did write a poem about that guy... which im not really at liberty to share right now... i sat where he hung himself, and cried.

[Jasperino]

What really sucks is the fact that if the US intervened everyone would call the president a war monger. Saddam was doing this same kind of shit in Iraq but he had control of the media so the world didn't see it.

[Tequila Zaire]

What really sucks is the fact that if the US intervened everyone would call the president a war monger. Saddam was doing this same kind of shit in Iraq but he had control of the media so the world didn't see it.

Not to mention the deal with CNN not to portray the regime in a "bad way"....

[TheDeathKnight]

I really think that all the religious nutcases who want to kill each other, should all be allowed to meet somewhere, and just get it over with.

Those who can get over the past, and move on, should do so peacefully.

But you can't eliminate years of death, revenge, etc...

If someone blew up your mom, sister, or girlfriend, or your child, you would want to
kill the people who killed them. It does not matter if you are Israeli or Palestenian.

The people who are doing the killing, are usually people who have had their
loved ones killed by the other side.

I understand the nature of revenge, but damn...

I really think they need to get that wall up, just stay away from each other
for a hundred years or so, and then they might be able to get together and
get along in the future. Kind of like East and West Berlin...

[KilLAtomiK]

Nope... But I did write a poem about that guy... which im not really at liberty to share right now... i sat where he hung himself, and cried.

why cry about someone you dont even know? i dont mean to make fun of you or anything but come on

[TheDeathKnight]

Sometimes it happens because you empathize with the pain the person was feeling, or must have been feeling. It's usually because you are also feeling pain like that, or did at one time.

So it taps into your own feelings, or bad memories, and you feel the same sadness,
or remember it from the past...

If you cry or not is just about if you are emotional about things or not.
Some people can mentally understand other people's pain, but other people can feel it...

[KilLAtomiK]

Sometimes it happens because you empathize with the pain the person was feeling, or must have been feeling. It's usually because you are also feeling pain like that, or did at one time.

So it taps into your own feelings, or bad memories, and you feel the same sadness,
or remember it from the past...

If you cry or not is just about if you are emotional about things or not.
Some people can mentally understand other people's pain, but other people can feel it...

i couldnt understand why he would cry especialy since he didint even kno the guy. i guess im the other type of person i realy need to get more in touch with my feelings

[CPRB]

deathknight I think what you say is quite right thing that alwasy amazed me about the state of Isreal, was it was created by the Brtish afetr the second world war for the simple reason that the brist didn't want displaced jews...and decide putting the in a cage surrounded by syria, egypt and Iran and Iraq migh be a good idea, well it wasn't and race that could have lead the world by learning from it's pain became the best eradicaterd of other nations. the Isrealis and Palaestinian are no better the the other....I agree put em in a ring and let em at it...and keeo the childrena dn women out of it

[TheDeathKnight]

i couldnt understand why he would cry especialy since he didint even kno the guy. i guess im the other type of person i realy need to get more in touch with my feelings

It usually takes having a similar experience before you can understand what other people feel. Have you had anything bad happen in your life? Anything really awful, that made you cry? If you have, and you see someone else going through the same experience, you will probably have some empathy for them. But if you have never gone through something, it's hard to empathize.

Like I never thought tattoos were a big deal, pain-wise.
Because I hadn't gotten one yet.
But it did not seem like a big deal.
But after many hours of back work,
I now have empathy when I see someone getting tattoos.
Regardless if they are acting tough, or sweating and crying,
I know how much it can hurt. But only because I went through
it. But before then, I had no idea.

TheQuietplace probably felt suicidal himself before,
so he knew how much pain the guy must have been in,
and so he felt his pain...

[KilLAtomiK]

the worst thing that has ever happened to me was the time my neighor poisoned my cats and my dog altho i could never prove it i knew it was him

[grebo]

that picture could easily be a pic from iraq of some unfortunate "collateral damage".

fuck the worlds a screwed up place sometimes

[Tequila Zaire]

that picture could easily be a pic from iraq of some unfortunate "collateral damage".

It's not even the same fucking ballpark...If a military targets a building for example it's common sense to anyone but a bleeding heart dumbfuck that the surrounding areas will be effected byt the blast. It's the main reason so many dictatorial regimes put high valued assets in areas filled with civilians...unfortunately these assets are often what directly causes the deaths of civilians in larger numbers. Until physics allows for the destruction of things not to effect what surrounds it...innocent people will die. That's the nature of warfare...and has been since the sword and sandel days.

What you see above is vastly diffrent. Above and I'd look clearer jsut so you can follow along...is a civilian bus. Used by everyday citizens to go from point A to point B...given this was the DIRECT target by the suicide bomber this makes it an act of terrorrism. This makes it far more sick of an act.

The problem with grouping both types of attacks together is you lose the reality of each. The outcome may look the same but the intention is vastly diffrent.

If you lived near a military base and it was bombed and as a result you or family died...that's collateral damage.

If however I walk into your home and blow it up on purpose...then a line is crossed than needs to be delt with seperately for any sort of understanding or justice to occur.

It's sad how all of this is blurred together...it makes soldiers on the same level as terrorrists...and while some may genuinely hold faith to that idea...it's fundementaly wrong.

A Soldier fights for the state and it's objectives...good or bad.

A Freedom Fighter....fights to release the people from the subjegation of the state.

A Terrorrist fights to subjegate people for their own objectives.

The whole "One mans terorrist is another mans freedom fighter" is simple spin...as is this grouping of the realities of warfare and the realities of terrorism. Terrorrists are pussies with weapons since 9 out of 10 times their targets are the weak and defenseless.

[ForrestBlack]

I think there are terrorist tactics, not terrorist people. A freedom fighter or revolutionary can choose to engage various methods for getting their point or objective across, some more 'pussy' that others. Yes, ther are those that plot such actions, but, I think sticking the label on people rather than actions is a misunderstanding.

[Tequila Zaire]

I think there are terrorist tactics, not terrorist people. A freedom fighter or revolutionary can choose to engage various methods for getting their point or objective across, some more 'pussy' that others. Yes, ther are those that plot such actions, but, I think sticking the label on people rather than actions is a misunderstanding.

Ultimately that's getting thrown out the window though...look at Castro's Cuba...in one hand you have those who see it as a communist dictitorial regime while for others it was a grand revolution that gave millions freedom. Che Guevara has become the most idolized (and marketable) "freedom fighter" of the last half century...so really in the end each is labeled and thought in whatever light has the better PR spin to it all.

Even the actions are excused if the end result gives the desired outcome.

As far as terrorist tactics not terrorist people...that has some truth to it but once you commit such tactics...you earn that label. No matter how you spin it...once you make a choice to kill off civilians in cafe's and nigh clubs...you become a terrorist...or murderer really. You are what you do....

[TheDeathKnight]

the worst thing that has ever happened to me was the time my neighor poisoned my cats and my dog altho i could never prove it i knew it was him

So if somone was really upset because someone killed *their* pets, would you feel something? Or would it only affect you if it is your pets?

[TheDeathKnight]

And yeah, as far as military tactics go, I still have to throw out my ol' reversal technique...
Here it goes:

What if the USA was a small democracy.
And Iraq was an Islamic superpower, with a huge and powerful army.
And assume some crazy fundemental Christians from the USA, blew up a bunch of Iraqis.
And they decide to come to the US, to kill those people.
Ok fine. We think they are extremists, so we are ok with them being killed...
BUT...
The Iraqis don't leave.
They say they are going to make our damaged country better,
and make it an Islamic dictatorship, so that "peace" can prevail in the future.
Even if an Islamic dictatorship worked for them, and they had peace,
it does not mean that everyone wants that.
So after removing Saddam, we are still there, trying to force a government on them.
And so if there was an occupying army of Islamic Iraqis in the USA, don't you think
we would be resisting? A lot of people would be resisting. They would be trying
to change our whole country, remove our democracy, our religion, our culture,
and replace it with something else. So I understand why they are resisting.
I think it was nice of us to try to rebuild their country.
But if they do not want our help, or our government, then fine. Fuck off!
We should leave. If they want us back, they can ask us.
If they do more terrorism in the US, we will bomb the crap out of them.

The terror tactics is a different question.
What is the best way to get people to leave your country?
Kidnap them? Kill them? Make them afraid? Make them want to leave?
All their nasty behavior sure makes me want to leave there.
You do not want our help? You do not want us to rebuild?
Fuck you then! We leave you in the stone age then...
If the rest of the country wants us to come back,
then they need to get rid of their terrorists.
But there is no doubt that the terrorism is effective in making people
want to leave somewhere. I'm sure the Russians right now are thinking
twice about just letting Chechnya just be independent...