Our origins.

[OliX]

So... I watched some documentaries and read some articles on creationism vs science and I got my own opinion before I saw those but it more and more proved it to me that my (you might call it crazy) ideas might just be the right ones.

What do you think? Where did we came from? Did we really evolved from monkeys or did god created us in his image?

[KilLAtomiK]

monkeys, theres more evidence that points to that theory

[OliX]

Yes yes... we all heard it many times.

Thing is..... there's a missing link. They can find all sorts of neanderthals that were before humans and all crossing links between them but they just can't find the link between human and neanderthals.

In history you have one sort of human, and then they evolve, and the next version and so on and there's always a crossing link. In case of Homo Sapiens there was no crossing link... They just showed up and lived together at the same time with other Neanderthals.
Darwinism is just widely accepted theory, same as Newton's one until Einstein showed up.

[Buster Friendly]

"Darwinism" is actually fairly out of date. Evolutionary theory has moved on since Darwin's time.

I am sure one of our better read members can explain it better than I can, but from what I understand Humans, and other primates share a DISTANT common ancestor, waaaaaay back, and started down our various mutations much farther back...

No SkyBeard made me out of mud.

[KilLAtomiK]

i cant find an article online partly due cause im sleepy and im braindead in this state but i remember hearing something about chimps sharing like 99% of the same genes humans have. wether you like to admit it or not humans are apes just like chimps oranngutans and so on. oh and the diference between an ape and a monkey is the tail apes dont have one yay science

[Morning Glory]

I'm not sure if I said it on here before, but yeah, science is incomplete. there are missing pieces in the evidence...

but saying that an incomplete picture should be thrown out in favor of an idea that has zero evidence is stupid and it's not science.

it makes just as much, actually far more sense to say that humans are an extraterrestrial species that arrived from a distant galaxy on the planet earth a few millions years ago, than it does to say that they just spontaneously appeared out of nowhere.

[Jax]

Evolution. I dont believe a god exists.

[Mr Karl]

we are all gods.......................but at some point we fucked up. Now it's a slow struggle to escape this prison of eating and shitting and only seven senses

[Wickedanima]

Evolution, from what I understand, is more like evolving from a common ancestor, rather than us being 'evolved' from monkeys. ^_^

[OliX]

It was by the time of the first great flood we fucked up Karl. Just wait for William
Not much longer...

[Morning Glory]

I agree with Karl, minus the Gods part. that sounds too self-important. Maybe you might have been a god in your past life, but I'm pretty sure that I was just an impotent monkey.

[OliX]

“Humbling” was the prevalent adjective used by the scientific teams and the media to describe the principal finding – that the human genome contains not the anticipated 100,000 - 140,000 genes (the stretches of DNA that direct the production of amino-acids and proteins) but only some 30,000+ -- little more than double the 13,601 genes of a fruit fly and barely fifty percent more than the roundworm’s 19,098. What a comedown from the pinnacle of the genomic Tree of Life!The “Head-scratching” Discovery

It was here, in tracing the vertical evolutionary record contained in the human and the other analyzed genomes, that the scientists ran into an enigma. The “head-scratching discovery by the public consortium,” as Science termed it, was that the human genome contains 223 genes that do not have the required predecessors on the genomic evolutionary tree.

How did Man acquire such a bunch of enigmatic genes?

In the evolutionary progression from bacteria to invertebrates (such as the lineages of yeast, worms, flies or mustard weed – which have been deciphered) to vertebrates (mice, chimpanzees) and finally modern humans, these 223 genes are completely missing in the invertebrate phase. Therefore, the scientists can explain their presence in the human genome by a “rather recent” (in evolutionary time scales) “probable horizontal transfer from bacteria.”
In other words: At a relatively recent time as Evolution goes, modern humans acquired an extra 223 genes not through gradual evolution, not vertically on the Tree of Life, but horizontally, as a sideways insertion of genetic material from bacteria…

An Immense Difference

Now, at first glance it would seem that 223 genes is no big deal. In fact, while every single gene makes a great difference to every individual, 223 genes make an immense difference to a species such as ours.
The human genome is made up of about three billion neucleotides (the “letters” A-C-G-T which stand for the initials of the four nucleic acids that spell out all life on Earth); of them, just a little more than one percent are grouped into functioning genes (each gene consists of thousands of "letters"). The difference between one individual person and another amounts to about one “letter” in a thousand in the DNA “alphabet.” The difference between Man and Chimpanzee is less than one percent as genes go; and one percent of 30,000 genes is 300.
So, 223 genes is more than two thirds of the difference between me, you and a chimpanzee!
An analysis of the functions of these genes through the proteins that they spell out, conducted by the Public Consortium team and published in the journal Nature, shows that they include not only proteins involved in important physiological but also psychiatric functions. Moreover, they are responsible for important neurological enzymes that stem only from the mitochondrial portion of the DNA – the so-called “Eve” DNA that humankind inherited only through the mother-line, all the way back to a single “Eve.” That finding alone raises doubt regarding that the "bacterial insertion" explanation.

Btw, this text is © by Z. Sitchin
Read more at http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_1.htm if you're interested.

[Mindgames]

Bacteria -> invertebrates -> fish

Old World monkeys are almost as new to the party as we are, with only a few hundred Ma between us. "Descended from monkeys" is like saying "descended from your dad". True but a little short-sighted.

Remember the "percent different from a chimp" argument is cod science. Yes it's true, but we're also 92% mouse. There's a lot of base pairs in a genome and only a few decide on the overall shape. For example vast chunks of DNA describe the structural layout of the heart, and mice, monkeys and me all have one, just with the size instructions tweaked. Evolutionary genetics is about the lineage of features not how many we happen to share - for example the shoulder joint is a fish invention (so every species descended from fish has or had them), but fur, surprisingly, isn't. The same idea pops up many times if it works, so the fact we have hairy asses and so do flies does not mean we're directly related, just that a massively-distant ancestor had the genetic potential for hair given enough sex. The genetic family tree doesn't have to be simply-branching either; two different species could develop which by chance were able to interbreed, so the mitochondrial "single mother" routine can only be assumed for recent history.

[OliX]

There's many ideas and theories on our existence.

I dig the one where we was genetically engineered by an alien race to make smarter and work capable primates that will mine minerals and metal ore for them. Pole shift and universal center alignment is a relatively newly discovered fact these days. It might explain Atlantis (antarctic) and last great flood that was even named in the bible. There are found many artifacts and fossils of modern human older than million years. It's been baned for scientists to explore it and those that did it were systematically blacklisted one by one. Same goes for scientists supporting the idea of creationism. They are discredited and most of them lose their job. Even the Nobel award wining scientist answered on question about our origins that it is most likely that we are gen. engineered apes. We have that knowledge right now. Modifying races, disabling and enabling features, simply playing god. Just read the old textures. Thanks god that Vatican didn't understand Sumerian tablets otherwise they would be destroyed by now. There you have lot's of evidence on this matter. What do you think how would another intelligent species on other planet percieve us with our advanced technology? Like gods of corse.

Other interesting fact is that we use less than 10% of our brain. Imagine our powers on full capacity. I'm speculating when I say that our psychic abilities were supressed on purpose. Things like god like powers and magic might just have been true. Even dragons would make sense if we believe that there were civilisations for million years ago.

Do some research about Bagdad museum. Did you know what was first thing on list when they took Bagdad. Robbing Bagdad museum and that other city (forgot its name) museum. There were links about ancient civilisations and they supreme technology. As we all know information (knowledge) is the most valued thing these days.

One other interesting thing is Sphinx and the secret chamber underneath it. Do some research there as well if you please.

[soma_stardust]

Btw, this text is © by Z. Sitchin
Read more at http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_1.htm if you're interested.

aha.
my tyler loves Mr. Sitchin. interesting stuff.
i don't know exactly where my belief lies.
it's a whole great big sea of unknowns.
there's something mystical powering the universe, but i don't think some distant god just plunked us down here and pushed the start button.
i think i was a faery in my last life and that's why i find human life so difficult or maybe i'm something like an angel or god that decided to see what this human thing was all about and now i'm regretting it.
fantasizing is fun.
all i can say for certain (maybe) is that we're more than just a bunch of mortals wandering around on a rock that hurtles through space. if i thought that... well, there'd be no point in living. oh, sure, there's the whole procreation instinct... "let's keep this species going. i'm not sure why, but it must be done..." why? so we can make future generations suffer as much as we do? life = suffering, and it seems pretty selfish to inflict that by creating more lives. or the whole "living and dying well is the important thing." but why? WHY??? so i can stop existing and become a pile of dirt? i don't like that. i even have issues with reincarnation because i don't want to lose my Self. which, i admit, is stupid.
*should have been a philosopher so i'd have an excuse for being jobless.*
er.... back to the point... i'm pretty sure the scientific evolution thing has more validity than the theory that there's some dude in the sky that chose to make a pile of rocks with people on it for his entertainment. (though i'm sure our stupidity is quite amusing to gods.)
don't get me started! my philosophic nature won't let me stop. D:
i probably sound like a complete idiot now, too... ^.^;

[soma_stardust]

Bacteria -> invertebrates -> fish

Old World monkeys are almost as new to the party as we are, with only a few hundred Ma between us. "Descended from monkeys" is like saying "descended from your dad". True but a little short-sighted.

Remember the "percent different from a chimp" argument is cod science. Yes it's true, but we're also 92% mouse. There's a lot of base pairs in a genome and only a few decide on the overall shape. For example vast chunks of DNA describe the structural layout of the heart, and mice, monkeys and me all have one, just with the size instructions tweaked. Evolutionary genetics is about the lineage of features not how many we happen to share - for example the shoulder joint is a fish invention (so every species descended from fish has or had them), but fur, surprisingly, isn't. The same idea pops up many times if it works, so the fact we have hairy asses and so do flies does not mean we're directly related, just that a massively-distant ancestor had the genetic potential for hair given enough sex. The genetic family tree doesn't have to be simply-branching either; two different species could develop which by chance were able to interbreed, so the mitochondrial "single mother" routine can only be assumed for recent history.

you win
i <3 scientific minds.
so unlike my own...
not that i can't think scientifically, hell i was nearly a math major.
i just tend toward the more mystical.
science + mysticism = win.

[Mr Karl]

I agree with Karl, minus the Gods part. that sounds too self-important. Maybe you might have been a god in your past life, but I'm pretty sure that I was just an impotent monkey.

By god's I just mean something a lot better......................a hell of a lot better

[soma_stardust]

gods aren't necessarily better... just beings on a different plane...

[Ajax Knucklebones]

We were created 6000 years ago and we lived with the dinosaurs. Period!
Jesus! Am I the only one who's read the bible here?
What's all this cockamaney evolution shit? Pastor tells me you're all going to Hell for all your blasphem ideas....And the pastor knows. He's a man of God. That's the only reason I used to let him touch my naughty bits when I was young.

[00goddess]

Sitchin is a fraud. He grossly misrepresents himself, his credentials, and the ancient texts.

Also, Olix, your "knowledge" of evolution is way out of date. That whole "missing link" stuff? Your idea is really not accurate. There is a lot of physical anthro out there to read up on!

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Btw, this text is © by Z. Sitchin
Read more at http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_1.htm if you're interested.

Have you ever read Edgar Cayce? I used to and one of his theories or in his third person, "the truths" of the origin of mankind is that God watched the Earth for millions of years. Finally at one point he realized that his creation was missing something. At that moment he placed "souls" into monkeys that were already here through evolution. Shortly after they came down from the trees and in time became what we now know as "man". It's a very "light" theory, of course, but if God really did create man, this gives a little better and more believable explanation of it then the whole ridiculous "Adam and Eve" thing....Not that this isn't kind ridiculous too, but to me it is less of a far-fetched idea than we all came from just two beings less than 6000 years ago.

[OliX]

Sitchin is a fraud. He grossly misrepresents himself, his credentials, and the ancient texts.

Also, Olix, your "knowledge" of evolution is way out of date. That whole "missing link" stuff? Your idea is really not accurate. There is a lot of physical anthro out there to read up on!

Then share, give me something to read.

[OliX]

I've heard about him (E.C), and then I saw a interesting documentary about him.
I take all of this with a ton of salt. I'm a skeptic in nature but still very curious about everything mystic and unknown.

Btw, 00goddess, what did I understood wrong? I merely accept all I hear/read and process it. It's not like I study it to the ground. If I knew I wouldn't post it here.

[TheDeathKnight]

There are a lot of ideas out there.

But the bottom line is that no one knows for 100% sure.

That's why I don't like religions and churches acting like they do know.

Because all "proof" is potentially flawed, and biased towards the people that are presenting it.

I happen to believe in evolution, but there are many ways things could have happened. For all we know, Earth is a big "experiment" by an alien race. They may have dropped off a variety of creatures a long time ago, and plan to come back 1000s of years later, and check out what happened... But they are all just theories, because none of you were around when life began, or watched the entire evolution of our species from the beginning. So it's all just educated guesses. So I don't think scientists should be saying what is absolutely true, any more than churches should be. Because none of them know for 100% sure...

[Ajax Knucklebones]

Because all "proof" is potentially flawed, and biased towards the people that are presenting it.----TDK


The fucked up thing about this sentence is that is the truth in pretty much any theory that's been tried to be proved true. Who really can say with a percentage of 100% that anything is true.

[LeilaHazlett]

Evolution merely means a change in the genetic composition of a population from one generation to the next. We can actively witness evolution. Evolution by itself however does not explain where we or any other species came from. Currently the best scientific explanation we have are species all evolved from a common ancestor due to the forces of natural selection. There is a lot of evidence for speciation due to natural selection but there still are holes in that theory and we have never actually witnessed the creation of a new species, per se.

And it's not monkeys but chimps who are our closest living relatives.

[Morning Glory]

well yes, there is some evidence to suggest that humans are over 100 million years old, which would make us having lived during the time of the dinosaurs. I think this is pretty good proof of the inaccuracy of dating methods. (I mean chronological dating methods, not social-sexual. we all know those are flawed.)

[OliX]

That would explain dragons in all those folk tales
And even magic considering that our brain in full capacity would be capable of telepathy and telekinesis.

We were made as a characters in live D&D game 100 million years ago.

[Mindgames]

well yes, there is some evidence to suggest that humans are over 100 million years old

A Raquel Welch movie does not constitute evidence.

Though excavations on the Eastern side of Joe Perry are yielding promising results.

[Dusk]

Maybe god used monkeys as a template for humans

[TheDeathKnight]

The fucked up thing about this sentence is that is the truth in pretty much any theory that's been tried to be proved true. Who really can say with a percentage of 100% that anything is true.

The church and the governments of Europe back in the 1300's and before claimed that it was a scientific fact that the world was flat. And that the sun orbited around the earth. That the earth was the center of the universe...

They had scientists, mathematics, and measurements, all claiming that these facts were true....

[little-miss-scare-all]

Not sure exactly what I think/believe.

I absolutely believe in evolution, but I also believe in a higher power and/or powers.
I do not believe in the bible.

meh.

[little-miss-scare-all]

There are a lot of ideas out there.

But the bottom line is that no one knows for 100% sure.

That's why I don't like religions and churches acting like they do know.

Because all "proof" is potentially flawed, and biased towards the people that are presenting it.

I happen to believe in evolution, but there are many ways things could have happened. For all we know, Earth is a big "experiment" by an alien race. They may have dropped off a variety of creatures a long time ago, and plan to come back 1000s of years later, and check out what happened... But they are all just theories, because none of you were around when life began, or watched the entire evolution of our species from the beginning. So it's all just educated guesses. So I don't think scientists should be saying what is absolutely true, any more than churches should be. Because none of them know for 100% sure...

I pretty much agree with everything you said.
And might I add, that I hate organized religion.

No one will ever be able to be 100% of anything.

[OliX]

The church and the governments of Europe back in the 1300's and before claimed that it was a scientific fact that the world was flat. And that the sun orbited around the earth. That the earth was the center of the universe...

They had scientists, mathematics, and measurements, all claiming that these facts were true....

Apparently we are in a center of universe. Apparently, if you travel in one direction in straight line you will arrive at the same point again. And then again, neither on this one we aren't 100% sure.

About what LMSA said we'll be sure when we die.

Damn! What do you want for nickname little-miss-scare-all? LMSA? Miss scare? Miss scare all? Miss will do all? Something short preferably.

[little-miss-scare-all]

About what LMSA said we'll be sure when we die.

Damn! What do you want for nickname little-miss-scare-all? LMSA? Miss scare? Miss scare all? Miss will do all? Something short preferably.

You have a point there.

And you can call me whatever - I don't care. A lot of people on the interwebs call me Tally though, short for Tallulah.

[Mr Karl]

They had scientists, mathematics, and measurements, all claiming that these facts were true....

and we've got Tyler Durden

[Velvet-Tongue]

I believe a creative force provided the energy and original material for the universe to be formed.

After that it laid down the laws of physics and energy and let things happen.

Part of me wants to believe humans were special enough to receive a hands on retrofit from God but thats just my fantasy, in reality I'm leaning hard on all life just evolving.

If you look at all mammals we share a common bone structure. Whale fins are just gigantic hands with elongated fingers, cat feet are the same. We all have common ancestors including humanity.

Or primate primogenitor evolved in a ton of different ways giving us the chimps, gorillas, bonobos, cromagnums, neanderthals etc.

I'm still open to the idea of spirituality though. I do believe there is something beyond just this.