Club Attendance

[fedora]

I
I'm sad to think the Goth scene is drying up like an old lady tho. Hey! I hear its still good in London, lets go there.

Actually, London's goth scene is gettin' pretty lame too nowadays . Got friends who have just been there for a little holiday, and no, they were not so happy about the music scene, at all, there are still some little dirty death-rock venues but they close really early, as every London's club (2 o'clock), and most of the attenders are tourist, or not-English-people.

In Europe, Germany's the only country left with a HUGE goth-scene; I've often been there for parties or gigs, and it kinda rocks (since I live in Northern Italy, Munich is not so out of reach).

Well, this thread definitely stroke a nerve. As I've just mentioned, I live in Italy, near Milan; in our country the scene has never been huge, never in the 80's, it has often been "confined" to the largest cities (Milan and the 80's goth-italian capital, Florence) even though there are LOTS of wonderful bands trying hard to get some attention for a crowd more and more interested in showin'off their new expensive cheesy outfits than in music.

I've been a club/gigs attender for some years now (I'm 22, but in Italy there are no age-limits for clubs), I can’t make a comparison with the 80’s/90’s situation ‘cause I was too young to be there so I’ll stick to my experience.
I’ve always loved music, which is the main reason I got “involved” in the goth scene, and I think I have a fairly wide culture in post-punk/new-wave/death-rock/industrial stuff; plus, here’s the scene is not so big so it’s not difficult getting to know promoters, djs and such. And they all agree with me on this point; the main problem of our scene is the lack of people who are REALLY interested in music, and prone to attend even non-famous bands’ gigs.

Everything seems to be only image-related; more and more people are just hangin’in clubs with their stupid cameras to take pictures to upload in their Myblahblah pages, and the same situation goes with the gigs; some months ago, for example, my beloved Cinema Strange’s gig in Milan; a pretty notorious band here, but only a 50-60 people crowd, and also not too interested in the show; I was one of the few “supporters” dancing and singin’ below the stage while a considerable amount of poseurs was chatting and taking pictures (!again!) in order to be able to write in their Myblahblah pages “Hey,I was there too!”.
(It was a great gig anyway )

I think the goth scene just reflects the vices of the “standard society”; since it’s not anymore an attempt to create a culture/sensibility different from the mainstream one, like maybe was in the ‘80s, but just a way to spend some free time.
That makes me sad ;(; of course, there are exceptions, and many differences between cities, but most goth-clubbers are always so boring and vain and snob…they don’t dance, they just look around and say bad stuff about other people, they just want to look gorgeous and be admired and THAT’S
BORING…well I like to be have a certain style too but I don’t spend my evening
looking at my shoes or sayin’ things like “Look at him, he’s so ugly” or
“My God, is she really wearing that horrible dress?”….One of the reason why club-nights are more crowded than gigs . The bands draw the attention out of your dress.

Then, the scene here is focused mainly on the terrible new-school EBM…the new generations are not so interested in post punk/death rock stuff , also if in some cities (like Florence, for instance) the situation is certainly better than in our fashionable Milan.

Anyway, social networks CAN be an effective way to promote one’s musical activity…but yep, they’ll tend to attract the “wrong” people. But if you’re only interested in numbers…

[DJ Bat]

Unclean and Forrest: You hit it on the fucking head.

There mosdef needs to be a social networking element yet in that same breath, it pours mostly from that cesspool of intrapersonal relationship 101 "hiding behind a digital wall" posers. Well 'poser' is too harsh a word... perhaps 'social unich'.

I've been in the unique position to have been a part of this digital rise, even help shape it with CyberDen the BBS and eventually first real website or even 'myshpace' type environment on the internet. What's interesting is that all the users of CyberDen back then were already themselves to the scene and their digital presense was an extension of themselves.

Today, it's the opposite. People hide behind a digital facade of... who the fuck knows? Pr0n Star, Emo Kid, Uber Rocker, whatever - it's all mostly egotistical anime-type characature types. What's sad/interesting (your choice) is that alot of people keep that same image IN PERSON.

So I'm wondering... all this new generation... the new faces of the scene... most seem to get their persona no longer from the music or the message of the music, the scene... but instead from the strange pre-pubescent desire to become some sort of twisted digital avatar in real life. Before, it was the other way around. I wonder how many people now make themselves to look like the Icons/Avatars they designed online or from an online pre-made source rather then from how they chose to 'decorate' themselves in real life.

I love technology and the internet, but MyShpace and it's counterparts are full blown digital internet V.D. and for me, I find it interesting that even I shunned away from it for the longest time and still do. The only reason I'm on there is not by choice but necessity to promote my band. Not Me, not what I'm wearing, not the length of my cock or what Mac make-up I may be wearing.

I know this conversation can get much deeper but I think in the end, one of two things happens...

1: You vaccinate up and dive into myshpace/twitter/etc... get your club it's own text sms system, etc... and try and use that to unbrainwash your clientelle and dominate the situation.

or

2: Fancy ass special card carrying or secret handshake society that has a nightclub available to those worthy enough to be part of it. Silly? Conceited? Perhaps 10 year ago although today, I would totally understand it and as long as members within refered new blood, there would be no problem in expanding that scene to new people.

I know, #2 is a bit harsh...

[Mr Karl]

not that harsh...

[fedora]

So I'm wondering... all this new generation... the new faces of the scene... most seem to get their persona no longer from the music or the message of the music, the scene... but instead from the strange pre-pubescent desire to become some sort of twisted digital avatar in real life. Before, it was the other way around. I wonder how many people now make themselves to look like the Icons/Avatars they designed online or from an online pre-made source rather then from how they chose to 'decorate' themselves in real life.

I love technology and the internet, but MyShpace and it's counterparts are full blown digital internet V.D. and for me, I find it interesting that even I shunned away from it for the longest time and still do. The only reason I'm on there is not by choice but necessity to promote my band. Not Me, not what I'm wearing, not the length of my cock or what Mac make-up I may be wearing.

Yep, you're totally right, and as pessimistic as it may sound, I really do not see "the light at the end of the tunnel" here...I just hope that people grow tired of their "digital avatar" status and try to be more creative and proposing not only via 2.0. Web.

[Buster Friendly]

I was going to say that a more basic reason that the interwebs have helped kill off our scene is that one no longer has to actually leave their room to go out, and find the other freaks.

When I was a kid, you had to get out and actually meet other people to find out what new music was out there. You had to actually meet like mind people in the flesh, with all the disasterous potential consquences that could bring.

Now every damn thing you want is on the net, just a click away.

See, even here. I can hang out with cool people (well, cool people, and then Rockwulf) look at hot girls, and never have to leave my high mountain top fortress.

I agree with alot of what other folks have said, esp. Bat- As folks got older they drift away from clubs, and what-not. I gots to get up in the mornings to make money to keep a roof over my head, nevermind buying cool clothes, or the latest music, or silver skull topped sword cane. And I haven't got time for alot of club dramas anymore. On top of which my liver refuses to cooperate if I'm drinking. Whaaaaat a draaaaag it is getting ooooooold.

I sure am glad I grew up before the interwebs.

[DJ Bat]

Another key point Buster - Why leave home?

I just saw Wall E at home w/my 22 mo old son.

'nuff said. Next stop, Hover chairs and twinkie-IV's.

[One Eyed Cat]

I think that the social networking is a lot of the problem, which isn't to say that it couldn't work for something new, but I find that the more people develop their online persona, the less they are capable of being real people in real life. People don't want to really meet other new and interesting people because they are scared of having to live up to their online character. So, web 2.0 makes them in effect more shy and more standoffish and way more concerned about their fantasy celebrity issues. If you hooked it up like that, I think only a certain class of clientele would come and it wouldn't be long before they all wanted to be paid to be there like some kind of MTV beach house scenario.

I see a little of both what you and unclean are seeing going on here. Social networking sites work to a point. They mostly just serve as reminders of when/where the event will take place. Hadn't really though of that social dynamic, but I'm sure it drives down attendance. There's no way we can cater to that sort of thing. I think it may be why there is so much complaining and disinfo propagated online. They want us to fail and/or "uncool" us so their prophecy is self-fulfilling (if I read you correctly)

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

Yeahhh... That. I don't think beating them up will help tho. It may be one of those... Grandparents cases. We'll just have to wait till these bottomfeeders have kids, and maybe we can whisper the coolness in their ear... and we can torture these assholes with kids who like what we do/did.

I don't foresee me and Bat doing so. We have plenty of gutterpunks to do it for us We're just ranting really.

[Wickedanima]

Everything seems to be only image-related; more and more people are just hangin’in clubs with their stupid cameras to take pictures to upload in their Myblahblah pages

Yeah, I noticed alot of status went with... taking Club pictures and posting them on the intertubs sosial networking site. Like see! WE ARE HAVING FUN. When in fact we totally weren't.

but most goth-clubbers are always so boring and vain and snob…they don’t dance, they just look around and say bad stuff about other people, they just want to look gorgeous and be admired and THAT’S
BORING…well I like to be have a certain style too but I don’t spend my evening
looking at my shoes or sayin’ things like “Look at him, he’s so ugly” or
“My God, is she really wearing that horrible dress?”….One of the reason why club-nights are more crowded than gigs .

Yeah but.

Uhh.

That isn't a modern problem. That's always been a Goth scene standard. That is WHY I would go to the club some days. To make fun of the people that can't dance or dress themselves. Don't forget that to be Goth Royalty, you must be beautiful. That can make you the King or Queen of a scene, for real, since the dawn of Goth.


As for music - I have a fondness for Death-Rock, I'm not much of stomper/jumper, so I'm rather fond of EBM type music in a Dance club type setting.

But I think there is a line between listening music, and dancing music to a certain degree.

[One Eyed Cat]

PS: Last night I had had 3 local bands play a pub: All did 2 JaMC songs and we were spinning deathrock, shoegaze, Pixies, and The Cramps between sets.

150 may not seem like a lot but it really was amazing for a local pub gig these days here. Had a great time. There is hope yet!

OEC

[Amelia G]

I was going to say that a more basic reason that the interwebs have helped kill off our scene is that one no longer has to actually leave their room to go out, and find the other freaks.

When I was a kid, you had to get out and actually meet other people to find out what new music was out there. You had to actually meet like mind people in the flesh, with all the disasterous potential consquences that could bring.

Now every damn thing you want is on the net, just a click away.

See, even here. I can hang out with cool people (well, cool people, and then Rockwulf) look at hot girls, and never have to leave my high mountain top fortress.

I agree with alot of what other folks have said, esp. Bat- As folks got older they drift away from clubs, and what-not. I gots to get up in the mornings to make money to keep a roof over my head, nevermind buying cool clothes, or the latest music, or silver skull topped sword cane. And I haven't got time for alot of club dramas anymore. On top of which my liver refuses to cooperate if I'm drinking. Whaaaaat a draaaaag it is getting ooooooold.

I sure am glad I grew up before the interwebs.

Word.

[Amelia G]

PS: Last night I had had 3 local bands play a pub: All did 2 JaMC songs and we were spinning deathrock, shoegaze, Pixies, and The Cramps between sets.

150 may not seem like a lot but it really was amazing for a local pub gig these days here. Had a great time. There is hope yet!

OEC

Good to hear

[One Eyed Cat]

Good to hear

Yah was amazing. It really still resonates with a lot of folks in their early 20s. I think it is the electro-industrial genre that sucks haha. I am trying my hand at a straight booking in that genre 2/27. Never again though. Too many bad attitudes. Needs to be mocked unless 200 show up haha (one is a national so)

OEC

[DJ Bat]

Awesome man!

I would probably do something to everyone in the place akin to Escape From New York ;-)

On the way out, have the bouncer just shoot them in the neck with two harmless air guns akin to those mass injector innoculators they had in High Schools way back when...

"You make it back here by next week, we can neutralize the charge."

Now that's industrial.

...it is it terrorism... hmm... new genre?...

[One Eyed Cat]

Awesome man!

I would probably do something to everyone in the place akin to Escape From New York ;-)

On the way out, have the bouncer just shoot them in the neck with two harmless air guns akin to those mass injector innoculators they had in High Schools way back when...

"You make it back here by next week, we can neutralize the charge."

Now that's industrial.

...it is it terrorism... hmm... new genre?...

Sounds like a plan.

OEC

[DJ Bat]

...it is it terrorism... hmm... new genre?...

Whoops... brain fart... or Mike Patton brain fart... It's it - what is it? It is it Terrorism!

[One Eyed Cat]

Whoops... brain fart... or Mike Patton brain fart... It's it - what is it? It is it Terrorism!

Terrorism requires a DIY ethos. It would actually be an improvement for some of those folks.

OEC

[fedora]

I was going to say that a more basic reason that the interwebs have helped kill off our scene is that one no longer has to actually leave their room to go out, and find the other freaks.

When I was a kid, you had to get out and actually meet other people to find out what new music was out there. You had to actually meet like mind people in the flesh, with all the disasterous potential consquences that could bring.

Now every damn thing you want is on the net, just a click away.

Frank Zappa, 1990: "The computer can't tell you the emotional story. It can give you the exact mathematical design, but what's missing is the eyebrows. "

I love this man

[DJ Bat]

Frank Zappa, hurt my head when this showed up in Hustler many many many years ago...



You can see the whole thing HERE

[theDragon_svDragcos]

Well,...IF Any of you are familiar with Places like

blade rhino's - "CLUB ETERNAL",

or "CLUB HELL"(in Hollywood),..

or "Bar Sinister"(also in Hollywood),..

or DJ XIAN's - "CLUB MALEDICTION" & "CLUB RUIN",..in L.A,...

or "Sir Nik(aka "sal)'s - CLUB DV8" in L.A, (near "LAX")....

...or..."DASBUNKER",.....

- I'm sure there are OtHeRs!?????
':-]

[DJ Bat]

Just got back from spinning @ Sinister on Satuday... ouch... my body is so sore from dancing... Tommy knows how to whip that floor up.

Aside from their mixer's channel #1 completely dying on my in the middle of Just One Fix, everything else was a hoot. Pretty good crowd for the night considering the parking nightmare known as the Oscars being there. No emo to be found - /loves bar sinister.

Ooo... I have a pic of me being a vampyre in the spirit of these forums - you see, my fangs only come out when I spin.

[One Eyed Cat]

Just got back from spinning @ Sinister on Satuday... ouch... my body is so sore from dancing... Tommy knows how to whip that floor up.

Aside from their mixer's channel #1 completely dying on my in the middle of Just One Fix, everything else was a hoot. Pretty good crowd for the night considering the parking nightmare known as the Oscars being there. No emo to be found - /loves bar sinister.

Ooo... I have a pic of me being a vampyre in the spirit of these forums - you see, my fangs only come out when I spin.

Yah post it We are looking at a big turnout for Voltaire and satanic surf band Lusurfer. Not much e-anything there either. I'll post a handbill when the BB folks get back.

OEC

[TheDeathKnight]

Yeah, I was mainly trying to address the issue of attendance.
If you are going to throw a club event, or book a band, etc.

There are a ton of different opinions about what kind of club and what kind of music people prefer. But the main point I was trying to make, is that people from the ages of 18-24 are the main people who go to clubs in large numbers. Once people get older, have kids, jobs, etc, they don't go out as much. Ideally, it would be great to have a club that caters to everyone. Different rooms with different music, blending different generations, etc. Nothing wrong with that at all. I was just saying that if you really want to keep a club booked, and packed, you need to cater to the stuff the younger crowd wants and enjoys.