should it be illegal to rate prostitutes?

[karyn]

from yahoo

Schwarzenegger asked to close prostitute Website
Reuters

California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger speaks during a news conference at the State Capitol in Sacramento Reuters – California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger speaks during a news conference at the State Capitol in Sacramento, …
Thu Oct 1, 1:58 pm ET

LONDON (Reuters) – A British government minister asked California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger on Wednesday to shut down a U.S. website that allows men to rate prostitutes, including many working in London.

Harriet Harman, minister for women and equality, told the ruling Labor Party's annual conference that "Punternet" fuels the demand for prostitution -- a vice she said degrades women and puts them at risk.

She said the web site was a "very sinister development" in the trade and exploitation of women and allows guests to compare and rate services in the same way as they would a restaurant, a hotel or a holiday.

Pimps put women on sale for sex on the site then clients offered their comments on line, she said.

"Punternet has pages and pages of women for sale in London," said Harman, who is deputy leader of Prime Minister Gordon Brown's Labor Party.

She said she had raised the issue with the U.S. ambassador to Britain and asked California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to close it down as it is based in that state.

"Surely it can't be too difficult for 'The Terminator' to terminate Punternet and that's what I am demanding that he does."

The Punternet site describes itself as "The Online Community for Patrons and Providers of Adult Personal Services in the UK" and says it was "created to facilitate the exchange of information on prostitution in the UK."

A U.S. Embassy spokesman could not immediately be reached for comment.

Prostitution is not illegal in Britain. But associated activities, including soliciting, advertising using cards in telephone boxes and kerb crawling, are criminal offences.

The minister also used the speech to say the government would make it a criminal offence to have sex with a prostitute who is being controlled by a pimp.

The government was also stepping up action to tackle human trafficking in the run up to the 2012 Olympic Games, most of which will be hosted in London.

"We're determined to ensure that, especially in the run-up to the Olympics, international criminal gangs don't trick and abduct women from abroad and sell them for sex in London."

(Reporting by Stefano Ambrogi; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

[Mr Karl]

I wonder if it's illegal to rate prosititutes in saudi arabia?

[ForrestBlack]

I think that's a clear violation of free speech. It would be a bad development if websites could be shut down by the State because people shared their thoughts about things that may be unlawful.

[Mr Karl]

I'm all for free speech, but I'm starting to think that the majority of people, once they're faced with what free speech really is, don't want anything to do with it........but, I suppose to be fair, they're free to choose to be that way and we should accept that.

[World*in*my*Eyes]

I am for free speech just so it does not hurt anyone and that can be debatable when free speech actually hurts someone. My opinion, is, prostitution is not exploitation of women. As least prostitutes are getting paid and earning a honest living. Exploitation of women is when women are used by men for sex and they get nothing in return, no material pay, affection or sexual enjoyment in return.

[toxicat]

I am for free speech just so it does not hurt anyone and that can be debatable when free speech actually hurts someone. My opinion, is, prostitution is not exploitation of women. As least prostitutes are getting paid and earning a honest living. Exploitation of women is when women are used by men for sex and they get nothing in return, no material pay, affection or sexual enjoyment in return.

[Raza]

I'm all for free speech, but I'm starting to think that the majority of people, once they're faced with what free speech really is, don't want anything to do with it........but, I suppose to be fair, they're free to choose to be that way and we should accept that.

Problem is they don't want unfree speech, either. They just want everybody to be able to express their opinion.

I am for free speech just so it does not hurt anyone and that can be debatable when free speech actually hurts someone. My opinion, is, prostitution is not exploitation of women. As least prostitutes are getting paid and earning a honest living. Exploitation of women is when women are used by men for sex and they get nothing in return, no material pay, affection or sexual enjoyment in return.

Agreed. Prostitution is at least mutual exploitation, which is capitalism in its best, semi-sensible form. It gets much worse once habit, tradition and peer pressure leave only one way by which something can be done and specific groups entitled to perform specific parts of the deal.

[TheDeathKnight]

Prostitution should be legal.

Pimping, abuse, and human trafficking should not be legal.

Same thing with drug use.
Use should be legal.
Stealing things to fund your habit should be illegal.
Doing drugs and driving should be illegal.

Focus on the real "crimes" associated with these things.
But if people are doing these things in a safe way that doesn't harm others, then leave them alone.

What you really want to stop, is things like robberies, r4pes, murders, burglaries, duis, anything that hurts someone else. But if people want to hurt or prostitute their own bodies, let them...

[VoltaireBlue]

prostitution should be legal.

Pimping, abuse, and human trafficking should not be legal.

Same thing with drug use.
Use should be legal.
Stealing things to fund your habit should be illegal.
Doing drugs and driving should be illegal.

Focus on the real "crimes" associated with these things.
But if people are doing these things in a safe way that doesn't harm others, then leave them alone.

What you really want to stop, is things like robberies, r4pes, murders, burglaries, duis, anything that hurts someone else. But if people want to hurt or prostitute their own bodies, let them...

+1

[KessM]

i think it was in brazil that they handed out condoms to the prostitutes and lowered the rate of all sorts of bad things. yay for legal prostitution

[World*in*my*Eyes]

Prostitution should be legal.

Pimping, abuse, and human trafficking should not be legal.

Same thing with drug use.
Use should be legal.
Stealing things to fund your habit should be illegal.
Doing drugs and driving should be illegal.

Focus on the real "crimes" associated with these things.
But if people are doing these things in a safe way that doesn't harm others, then leave them alone.

What you really want to stop, is things like robberies, r4pes, murders, burglaries, duis, anything that hurts someone else. But if people want to hurt or prostitute their own bodies, let them...

I agree.

[Rockwulf]

i think it was in brazil that they handed out condoms to the prostitutes and lowered the rate of all sorts of bad things. yay for legal prostitution

Man, when I came out of work last night there was a condom sitting on the seat of my motorcycle. I wonder who's trying to say what...


On topic: Rating prostitutes shouldn't be illegal, it should be mandatory. Like, on a scale of 1 to 5 crabs.

[ForrestBlack]

It seems weird to me that folks are missing the free speech issue and just advocating legalization. It is difficult to advocate the legalization of something if you are restricted from talking about the issue openly. Gay marriage isn't legal in many states, but I think it would be wrong for the state to be able to shut down a site because it rated other states on their availability and support of gay marriage.

Also, if prostitution is technically legal someplace, I think it's clearly wrong for the Government to close down discussion of the services. I could arrange to go pay for great sex with Mika Tan, who appears on BarelyEvil and I follow on Twitter, because she does work from time to time at Dennis Hof's Moonlite BunnyRanch. This is all legal. So why would it be the Government's business if I said on the interwebs, hay, that was awesome or whatever?

[TheDeathKnight]

Very true.

And there is a similar case being reviewed at the supreme court right now. The case is about if a video of something illegal is ok to possess, or broadcast, if the activity on the tape is legal in some other country. The main topic is dogfighting in this case, but I think if they determine that it's illegal to have video or other info about something that's illegal in a particular state, then it's going to spill into the internet and the press as well. But if they determine it's ok to videotape things that might be legal in some other country, then what's to stop people from taping child porn and whatever else? As long as it's "legal" where it was done... And if you ban specific things, like dogfighting videos, or snuff films, then it becomes a state by state thing. Which seems like the more likely outcome.

But then it gets tricky with the internet...

Can you broadcast or display video of something that's legal in one state, but not legal in the state where it's being viewed? I have noticed a few sites showing video of sex at legal brothels in europe. So it would seem like it's currently legal to show video of something that's illegal here, but not illegal in some other country. But that could be a slippery slope....

[ForrestBlack]

I think knee jerk hot button things like dog fighting or cp can sway the emotion, rather than the logic. You don't want to get into a situation where video footage of police abuse during demonstrations could be deemed illegal and taken off line simply because they claim it was an unlawful assembly in the first place. Also, I think rating a prostitute's services is different from video taping your South East Asian sex tourism and cock fighting adventures and posting them online. But you do bring up another interesting point regarding jurisdictional media.

[Mr Karl]

then again if you had a place run by tree huggers they'd probably want to get rid of a site that had want ads for loggers.

as far as free speech goes..............................free, rarely ends up being free

[TheDeathKnight]

The general idea is that you should be able to SAY anything you want. That doesn't mean you can post video of anything you want. But then you get into the grey areas of fantasy writing, hentai, tentacle porn, etc. Obviously people can usually write almost anything, and get away with it under the free speech concept. Even if you are writing a story about ****, or murder, etc. It's all legal. But once you get into adding visuals, it gets more questionable. I am pretty sure many states would ban certain comic porn, if the content was offensive enough.

The bigger problem is the internet. Because things that are on a website based in the Netherlands, may be perfectly legal there, but not legal for people in a particular state in the USA to view or possess. So the question becomes: "Who's job is it to police this stuff?" And when you are dealing with stuff that's being posted and hosted in foreign countries, it seems like it would have to be up to each state to deal with blocking or enforcing what their citizens can and can't see or have access to. Because there is always going to be some sick and twisted website hosted in some totally 3rd world country, and it's going to be impossible to prevent it. So it's up to local police to decide if it's really worth their time to investigate every single citizen, and make sure they don't look at the "bad" stuff.

Non-tech people tend to want to put the blame on the internet as a whole, and expect that there is some global way to simply prevent those files from being available. I think the majority of people calling for internet porn bans, and stuff like that, have very little understanding how the technology works...

[toxicat]

Prostitution is at least mutual exploitation

Why must either side involve exploitation?

[Rockwulf]

then again if you had a place run by tree huggers they'd probably want to get rid of a site that had want ads for loggers.

as far as free speech goes..............................free, rarely ends up being free

Aren't you paying attention? Freedom costs a buck oh-five.

[Mr Karl]

that's it??..................up here it's three fifty

[Raza]

Why must either side involve exploitation?

It's a capitalistic exchange, involving people doing things they don't want to to gain access to 'property' that's otherwise arbitrarily restricted from them.

'S'got nothing to do with the sex involved; paying somebody to polish your shoes qualifies just the same.

[TheDeathKnight]

Exactly.

And the person getting their shoes polished could be very nice about it, and make it a fairly pleasant job for the shoe shiner, or they could be a total asshole, and make the task very unpleasant and degrading for the person shining the shoes.

Of course it's totally different if you are talking about forced prostitution. In that case, the woman does not have a choice about who they pick as clients, and what they will let them do. in that case, yes, it is a degrading and dehumanizing job. That's why pimping is what needs to be banned, not prostitution.

[ForrestBlack]

It's a capitalistic exchange, involving people doing things they don't want to to gain access to 'property' that's otherwise arbitrarily restricted from them.

'S'got nothing to do with the sex involved; paying somebody to polish your shoes qualifies just the same.

I think saying they are doing things they don't want to do is a bit of a value judgment. There are plenty of exchanges of value where both parties are perfectly happy and didn't have to do anything they didn't want to do.