trouble with skinheads?

[Buster Friendly]

the score card for those who are too lazy to read the profundities of this thread

ItlDvl-is the racist skinhead, invited by Jax to explain how to deal with skinhead troubles.

Ivy Donovan-is a white bitch.

Jax-is not a skinhead hippie... apparently she's a skinhead groupie.

[funkatron]

How exactly would I convince a "non white" that the white race is better. Like I said it's futile!

Also if I am givin a good oppertunity to talk with people of my own race in person it's a completely different story. I think we can all agree that alot of points are lost over the internet. Tones of voices, facial expressions, and so on.

Problem is, you keep talking about "the white race," but so few caucasians practice what you have in mind (you certainly acknowledge that many aren't terribly smart or cool either). I think your nomenclature is misleading, because if we're talking about the whole of "white" culture, we're talking about a whole lot of different shit. And if we're including modern American "white" culture in that (which I think we have to), it isn't at all what you're talking about. It's SUVs and Eminem and Toby Keith and MTV and Hot Topic and Wal Mart and bullies and isolationism and depression and mass-medication, among other things.

At the same time, the things you mention in criticism of other cultures are the worst things of those cultures. Are the worst things perhaps more prevalent in those cultures in this particular country, in urban areas? Maybe, but I think that has a lot to do with class rather than race, and I believe it's arrogant and hypocritical to compare the best of your own culture (or what you imagine your culture to be) to the worst of other cultures.

American society was founded on (conflicting, but among them) racist principles, and one of many unfortunate aspect of that is that it's mixed in a prevalent -- but ultimately misleading, I believe -- race component into what is really an issue of class and power. From what I've seen in other countries where race isn't at the center of the discussion, you've still got class and power issues that generally lead to the same kinds of problems.

[Toe Cutter]

White culture would constitute alot!

War, Musics, Cars, clothes, sports, natrue, pride, etc.

Are you a food racist too? Do you ever eat kabobs? I can't imagine life without ethnic foods! What have Americans done for food? Hamburgers? boooring


Would you and your friends consider me a race-traitor cuz I love curry?

[sunkarma]

You can't push your culture on other people.
But other cultures will respect you more, and like you more, if you are cool to them.

My main point regarding racism, is that just because a whole culture is generally
one way, that does not mean all people of that color are the same way...

I did not learn that until I met some of them.

But I have friends now from many different races and cultures.
They are not ghetto or criminals...
They share the same values I do, and are all intelligent and considerate people.
So in my mind, they are of the same culture I am.
They are cool techs, goths, punks, artists, programmers, etc...
But they happen to be white, black, asian, hispanic, etc, etc...

My point is that race does not determine your cultural background.
Where you are born, and how you are raised, has a lot more to do with it.

I'm not going to raise my kids in the ghetto.
I'm not going to surround myself with a life of crime and violence.
But that doesn't mean I need to hate blacks, or any other race.
They've got their problems. No doubt about that.
But there are really cool people of every race.
Sooner or later you will meet them, if you are willing to keep an open mind about it.

Whew. I was about to just write off on you for one moment there.
You redeemed yourself.
This whole race thing is a very interesting topic and can raise quite a few emotions...from extreme anger to bitter sadness...I think I have run my gamut for today.

Carry on......

(tries to catch up in reading this long thread)

[sunkarma]

Yeah, you defineately need to read the whole thread.

I aint no fucking hippie.

Oh yeah, nor a skinhead.

My opinion is theres hate no matter what culture/race/color/dick size.

Unity between man is impossible and will never exist.

I feel whites have just as many rights to be proud of who they are, as do blacks, muslims, and aliens. If I chose to be proud that Im white, I feel I have every right to be. Im proud to be who I am. Im allowed my rights to be proud of my ancestors.

Sorry so vague. Im on ItalDvl's lap and am quite distracted (hes peeking over my shoulder).

True story.

I'm sorry...I'm doing that now...
You are right..unity is impossible....but understanding is NOT.
And you should and have every RIGHT to be proud of who and what you are, I am not denying that..
Don't get mad at me or I'll cry. No really, I will. I have a respect and like/love for most of you guys. You are like an extended, strange, wild, wierd, wonderful family.
God...am I a geek or what????
Well, excuse for me for not reading the whole thread...
I was trying to read fast and was late for work..then decided to take the whole friggin day off...I need it.

Ok...let the drinking commence...

Oops...I meant reading.

[sunkarma]

Holy crap! Wish I would've known that sooner! I'm in Virginia now. I'll be stopping back by Harrison eventually, some time, though, so I'll be going right through Springfield and Branson. I wonder if I've seen you on my weekend-ly visits to the Denny's up there. Those were a 3-in-the-morning affair.

Oh, you poor, poor thing. I'm in Va too.
How sad and sorry it truly is.

My thoughts on the KKK: Love them. I just love it when a bunch of crazy dudes get together and dress in white sheets and burn crosses. It turns me on. (rotfl)
Actually, I did an extended bibliography for my library science class on the KKK...even called them up to get references. Since I 'sound' white..they didn't have a clue. They even invited me to one of their rallies..now how funny would THAT BE????
Oh geez, I'd die of laughter (or probably be lynched).

Skinheads- Cool with me. As said before...I don't have the same conception of skinheads as being racist.

Hippies- Ain't NOTHING WRONG with bein a hippie, darn it. I'm a punk hippie goth chic myself. It depends on the day...
Yes, I'm a tree hugger and proud of it.

My question is...where did all the negativity with these 'titles' come from and why did they get attached to these words in this manner?
How do we change thier meanings...or CAN WE?

In every word, there is a negative connotation. For instance, back in the days of women's lib...the word "Woman" and being "female" was thought of as negative. Now it's gone back to a black/white issue and "n---" and "cracker" and "s--c" and whatever... and all that blah-ze blah-ze.

Truth is, words hold no power unless we give them power over us, same as titles. One can call themselves the queen of england...yet not be..so what is the point in words/titles?

They are truly empty.

Yours truly-
The Queen of the Universe (rotfl)

[Toe Cutter]

So it's settled!

All of us here on these boards can agree that Hot woman, pvc, and gag-balls are the great uniters! This boards/thread should be a case study for the UN.

[Evilbink]

I would gladly participate in that study.

[Rockwulf]

Oh, you poor, poor thing. I'm in Va too.
How sad and sorry it truly is.

My thoughts on the KKK: Love them. I just love it when a bunch of crazy dudes get together and dress in white sheets and burn crosses. It turns me on. (rotfl)
Actually, I did an extended bibliography for my library science class on the KKK...even called them up to get references. Since I 'sound' white..they didn't have a clue. They even invited me to one of their rallies..now how funny would THAT BE????
Oh geez, I'd die of laughter (or probably be lynched).

Skinheads- Cool with me. As said before...I don't have the same conception of skinheads as being racist.

Hippies- Ain't NOTHING WRONG with bein a hippie, darn it. I'm a punk hippie goth chic myself. It depends on the day...
Yes, I'm a tree hugger and proud of it.

My question is...where did all the negativity with these 'titles' come from and why did they get attached to these words in this manner?
How do we change thier meanings...or CAN WE?

In every word, there is a negative connotation. For instance, back in the days of women's lib...the word "Woman" and being "female" was thought of as negative. Now it's gone back to a black/white issue and "n---" and "cracker" and "s--c" and whatever... and all that blah-ze blah-ze.

Truth is, words hold no power unless we give them power over us, same as titles. One can call themselves the queen of england...yet not be..so what is the point in words/titles?

They are truly empty.

Yours truly-
The Queen of the Universe (rotfl)

You sound white? That's hot. Wanna come over?

[sunkarma]

So it's settled!

All of us here on these boards can agree that Hot woman, pvc, and gag-balls are the great uniters! This boards/thread should be a case study for the UN.

Actually, I'm surprised the gvt hasn't regulated this board yet...
They do thier best with everything else (2257, etc..etc...) ROTFL.

This is the only place where free speech is actually free...(gotta love that ACLU button over top the boards, huh?).

Rockwulf...I owe ya a kiss from that icy hot incident...

[TheDeathKnight]

ItalDvl, you need to understand that I am willing to have an open mind.
I'm willing to really listen to what you have to say.

This is a fucked-up world, with a lot of problems.

I do not think anyone knows the best answers to some of these problems.

We talk about peace, and being helpful, etc...
But you go to certain countries, or neighborhoods, and get attacked when you
are there trying to help. I've seen American History X, and their example of
a firefighter being shot when he went to a bad neighborhood, is a good
example of why people might not want to help a race with problems.
The same way people are getting tired of trying to help in Iraq.
Same thing happened in Somalia. Trying to keep the peace,
and getting attacked all the time.

It's the difference between isolationism, versus activism.

Are you going to deal with the poor, uneducated, and violent,
and try to help them? Or are you going to just want to put them
all in jail, and throw away the key? These are the real issues.
I think ItalDvl is just in an isolationist frame of mind.
He wants to go live in peace, and keep violence and
ignorance away from his family. And hell, we all want that.
People who grow up in the hood, black or white, when they
make money, they move to a better place...

I think he is just choosing an easy out.
Same way with Israel.
Put up a wall, and keep the other people out.

But why do you do that?

Because you have run out of patience.
Israel is sick and tired of getting bombed by terrorists.
So they are putting up a wall.

Maybe after another 100 years of keeping that wall up,
it will come down, just like in Germany, and people will
all get along. Who knows? But hate does not die easily.

And as this world gets more and more crowded, there
will be more people, and less resources. So people will
compete. So there will be more crime, and more people
who want to isolate themselves, and defend what they
have.

I really do understand that kind of viewpoint.

I understand that Israel has to group all Palestineans together,
if they are going to put up a wall. They can't go through each
and every person, and decide who can be on this side, and who
can come to their side. They make a racial and ethnic distinction.
My point is simply that there are indeed cool people of every
race and religion. I have met cool Israelis, cool arabs, cool
blacks, cool hispanics, cool whites, etc, etc... Sure, if you
want to make a distinction, and say that blacks are generally
more likely to be a criminal, fine. If the statistics back that
up, then make that distinction. Keep a cautious distance.
But don't assume that every single black or mexican is
a criminal or drug dealer, etc... This is a HUGE world,
and there are really cool people of every race...

[Nudemuse]

Very well said.

But do you at least like scallions? You know, green onions are kind of different from other types of onions.

Well I do like onions cooked to transluscent. And I can get down with some scallions but not too many.

And thanks

[Bondage Clown]

Actually, I'm surprised the gvt hasn't regulated this board yet...
They do thier best with everything else (2257, etc..etc...) ROTFL.

This is the only place where free speech is actually free...(gotta love that ACLU button over top the boards, huh?).

Rockwulf...I owe ya a kiss from that icy hot incident...

2257 is what is paying my bills right now.. cause of the highly sensitive material that I am working on at work...

OK.. now for my bitch in the part of people hating poeple and people trying to screw people....

First off, I am in College... My freind.. (I will call him jack)... is a socialists nazi, he walks around te campus wearing swastikas, and Death's heads, and wears authentic military clothing... He spews his knowledge wit heveryone he can and is very intelligent... Oh.. one thing.. He is black... His family came from germany to escape the holocaust, but his gandfather was part of the SS...


Secondly... It doesn't matter what color your skin is, or where you live or who you are brought by... What matters is how you interepret the propaganda that is thrown at us everyday...
There was an episode of Jerry Springer, where some KKK and Black Panthers were discussing their belifs... Do you know what happened? Both The spokespeople pulled out bibles, and started quoting the same fucking scripture.. SO, my point is that racisim is basically up to the individuals onwn thinking.

Thirdly... There would not be so much fucking racism in this country if people would quit worrying so much about shit that doesn't effect them. Like fucking christmas trees, hanakuah cards, kwanzee (I apologize for the spelling) celebrations, and the like.. WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT WHAT HOLIDAYS ARE WHOS? They are a celebration, and are meant to be enjoyed by everyone...

I am gonna go hug a jew, eat some curry (I love the stuff to Toe), skip-rope in compton, and then I am gonna go get nekkid with aborigines now... Anyone wanna contest this.. fine... NO MIDGETS FOR YOU

[ItalDvl]

ItalDvl, you need to understand that I am willing to have an open mind.
I'm willing to really listen to what you have to say.

This is a fucked-up world, with a lot of problems.

I do not think anyone knows the best answers to some of these problems.

We talk about peace, and being helpful, etc...
But you go to certain countries, or neighborhoods, and get attacked when you
are there trying to help. I've seen American History X, and their example of
a firefighter being shot when he went to a bad neighborhood, is a good
example of why people might not want to help a race with problems.
The same way people are getting tired of trying to help in Iraq.
Same thing happened in Somalia. Trying to keep the peace,
and getting attacked all the time.

It's the difference between isolationism, versus activism.

Are you going to deal with the poor, uneducated, and violent,
and try to help them? Or are you going to just want to put them
all in jail, and throw away the key? These are the real issues.
I think ItalDvl is just in an isolationist frame of mind.
He wants to go live in peace, and keep violence and
ignorance away from his family. And hell, we all want that.
People who grow up in the hood, black or white, when they
make money, they move to a better place...

I think he is just choosing an easy out.
Same way with Israel.
Put up a wall, and keep the other people out.

But why do you do that?

Because you have run out of patience.
Israel is sick and tired of getting bombed by terrorists.
So they are putting up a wall.

Maybe after another 100 years of keeping that wall up,
it will come down, just like in Germany, and people will
all get along. Who knows? But hate does not die easily.

And as this world gets more and more crowded, there
will be more people, and less resources. So people will
compete. So there will be more crime, and more people
who want to isolate themselves, and defend what they
have.

I really do understand that kind of viewpoint.

I understand that Israel has to group all Palestineans together,
if they are going to put up a wall. They can't go through each
and every person, and decide who can be on this side, and who
can come to their side. They make a racial and ethnic distinction.
My point is simply that there are indeed cool people of every
race and religion. I have met cool Israelis, cool arabs, cool
blacks, cool hispanics, cool whites, etc, etc... Sure, if you
want to make a distinction, and say that blacks are generally
more likely to be a criminal, fine. If the statistics back that
up, then make that distinction. Keep a cautious distance.
But don't assume that every single black or mexican is
a criminal or drug dealer, etc... This is a HUGE world,
and there are really cool people of every race...

I am in no way looking for a way out Im actully working on becoming a member of the police force. But dont you worry there wont be any rodney kings from me hahahahaha

[ItalDvl]

Problem is, you keep talking about "the white race," but so few caucasians practice what you have in mind (you certainly acknowledge that many aren't terribly smart or cool either). I think your nomenclature is misleading, because if we're talking about the whole of "white" culture, we're talking about a whole lot of different shit. And if we're including modern American "white" culture in that (which I think we have to), it isn't at all what you're talking about. It's SUVs and Eminem and Toby Keith and MTV and Hot Topic and Wal Mart and bullies and isolationism and depression and mass-medication, among other things.

At the same time, the things you mention in criticism of other cultures are the worst things of those cultures. Are the worst things perhaps more prevalent in those cultures in this particular country, in urban areas? Maybe, but I think that has a lot to do with class rather than race, and I believe it's arrogant and hypocritical to compare the best of your own culture (or what you imagine your culture to be) to the worst of other cultures.

American society was founded on (conflicting, but among them) racist principles, and one of many unfortunate aspect of that is that it's mixed in a prevalent -- but ultimately misleading, I believe -- race component into what is really an issue of class and power. From what I've seen in other countries where race isn't at the center of the discussion, you've still got class and power issues that generally lead to the same kinds of problems.

Just to point out there are millions of Skinheads across this world and even in countires you wouldnt think Like Brazil for one. Yah But by no strech are there a few of us the only place where it is unlikly to see alot of us in one day is in America.

Even in countries where National Socialism is out lawed we still thrieve.

[ItalDvl]

Ive decided to detach myself from this forum I don't really like it all that much.
Nothing agaisnt any of you just not my kind fo crowd you know??

But hey Deathknight its a been a pleasure speaking with you. Truly it has.
Take care

[killerkat]

hahah,.well it was nice havin' ya....

see the thing we got going here,is diversity,theirs everything from buisness types to you dumb teenage self proclaimed ,macaraed,goth kids...

no maybe i don't know :

[Jax]

the score card for those who are too lazy to read the profundities of this thread

ItlDvl-is the racist skinhead, invited by Jax to explain how to deal with skinhead troubles.

Ivy Donovan-is a white bitch.

Jax-is not a skinhead hippie... apparently she's a skinhead groupie.

The only groupie I am, is the one to myself. Because I know TWO skinheads, that names me a groupie?

Now that is the most retarded thing Ive ever heard.

[SocialGrrl]

The only groupie I am, is the one to myself. Because I know TWO skinheads, that names me a groupie?

Now that is the most retarded thing Ive ever heard.

That depends on whether you are chasing after the two of them and trying to make yourself into what they want and using your sexuality to try to get them to give you the time of day.

[Morning Glory]

this subject really got me to thinking. I'm not reall sure which is the natural order- isolation or expansion. once upon a time 15 million years ago everyone lived together. one world, one people, one big happy family. maybe they destroyed everything in thier world the same way we do today and went out to find a new one. expansion is really the only thing that seperates us as humans. others then a few migratory species, mankind is the only species that travels abroad for reasons other then base survival. ever since then it's been a ticking time bomb that's altered the natural world in way that the power of nature could never do to istelf. everytime someone goes to a new place every molecule colonizes it, sometimes wiping out flora fauna and people along the way. so the question I have is, where do we go from here? I think either way we're just counting down to starting over again from square one.

[Tequila Zaire]

That depends on whether you are chasing after the two of them and trying to make yourself into what they want and using your sexuality to try to get them to give you the time of day.

That's a hell of an assumption...and has little to fuck all to do with the discussion.

[SocialGrrl]

Just to point out there are millions of Skinheads across this world and even in countires you wouldnt think Like Brazil for one. Yah But by no strech are there a few of us the only place where it is unlikly to see alot of us in one day is in America.

Even in countries where National Socialism is out lawed we still thrieve.

Even Brazil? Brazil has the largest population of literal expat German Nazis in the world.

[SocialGrrl]

That's a hell of an assumption...and has little to fuck all to do with the discussion.

I said it depends on whether she is doing that. Posts she made when I used to lurk here a while back did not seem like she was a racist or a Nazi or the sort of person who would seek out the company of racists and Nazis. Someone else called her a groupie and she didn't seem to get it, so I was explaining what would make her in fact a groupie.

[Tequila Zaire]

I said it depends on whether she is doing that. Posts she made when I used to lurk here a while back did not seem like she was a racist or a Nazi or the sort of person who would seek out the company of racists and Nazis. Someone else called her a groupie and she didn't seem to get it, so I was explaining what would make her in fact a groupie.

Well given how much she has shared about herself and her general tone and attitude I honestly don't get how ANYONE on these boards could make the assumption she was racist or a neo nazi of all things. We've had these topics before...it's not exactly new.

The groupie thing is indeed beyond fucking stupid. Simply because we all have friends who may not be the most P.C. and to hang around them does not make one a groupie, supporter, or anything else like that. I have friends who ARE racist...not hardline enough to admit it but they'll avoid certain groups and people...and I still call em friend.

Guess what irks me is that this debate did take a weird detour off the subject and into an area that was easy to damn though even I gotta admit I'm guilty of. So how it got so personal in terms of the situation between Jax and her friends seems odd.

Oddly enough a debate about race and race relations drowned under the weight of the very problems we were discussing.

[ForrestBlack]

Who likes Rick? Show of hands...

[Morning Glory]

haha. I always liked viv, but was never cool enouigh to really identify with. I'm probibly most like neil. lol

[Amelia G]

Who likes Rick? Show of hands...

Are you trying to derail this thread?

[ForrestBlack]

Are you trying to derail this thread?

No, I honestly feel Rick belngs in this thread.

[Tequila Zaire]

reminds me...gotta pick that up on DVD too.

Damned BBC America keeps showing crap most of the time. How many damned home improvement shows does the BBC have these days?!

[sunkarma]

this subject really got me to thinking. I'm not reall sure which is the natural order- isolation or expansion. once upon a time 15 million years ago everyone lived together. one world, one people, one big happy family. maybe they destroyed everything in thier world the same way we do today and went out to find a new one. expansion is really the only thing that seperates us as humans. others then a few migratory species, mankind is the only species that travels abroad for reasons other then base survival. ever since then it's been a ticking time bomb that's altered the natural world in way that the power of nature could never do to istelf. everytime someone goes to a new place every molecule colonizes it, sometimes wiping out flora fauna and people along the way. so the question I have is, where do we go from here? I think either way we're just counting down to starting over again from square one.

Ah...the "Pangea" reference where the world was just one big mass instead of it seperating into parts now, eh? This world all fits together like little puzzle pieces, when you look at it and put the pieces together, we fit like a puzzle.
The world supposedly originated in africa..(adam/eve) and even the ark is buried somehwere out in the desert. If we look at history again, it talks about the mass exodus of various people to various places on this planet, which atones for thier changing in melanin, features, etc. That is how the 'races' were born, so to speak. Our features are in direct reference to the places we decided to settle when we 'migrated' from Panagea (when it started breaking up) long ago.
So yes, we really are one people. In fact, in Time magazine, they have it pegged down to one piece of DNA that is present in ALL of us that suggests that.
So ---brothers and sisters...
with all this tension that we have created...all this mess we have made with the world...what do we each plan on doing to fix the chaos we have created? Or do we plan on doing anything at all?

[Morning Glory]

I kinda wish things were like in disney world where they have all the different countries and you can just go to all of them and shit. I've never even been to all fifty states in my own country. I don't know if that's really the answer since spreading out has actually led to a lot of the problems that we have today, breaking up the family unit and such. but it would defintly be cool if people could so freely intermingle and be exposed to other cultures, I think it might open up a lot of people's perception.

[ForrestBlack]

...it would defintly be cool if people could so freely intermingle and be exposed to other cultures, I think it might open up a lot of people's perception.

The same sun that melts the butter, hardens the clay.

[Jax]

That depends on whether you are chasing after the two of them and trying to make yourself into what they want and using your sexuality to try to get them to give you the time of day.

I believe you further explained yourself. Im a groupie because I have racists friends. Yeah ok. That makes ALOT of sense!

*durrr*

[Jax]

That's a hell of an assumption...and has little to fuck all to do with the discussion.

Thank you TZ!

Its sad when the undereducated have to open their yappers and make stupid assumptions. And besides that, I use my sexuality on EVERYONE to get what I want;p

[Buster Friendly]

The only groupie I am, is the one to myself. Because I know TWO skinheads, that names me a groupie?

Now that is the most retarded thing Ive ever heard.

yes, as I pointed out on that other thread...

...in the future I suppose a much heavier handed use of smilies when I'm being a dork is called for...

geez, who'd a thunk folks could be so humorless when it came to nazis? (maybe we could get a an :adolph: smiley like the one on those t-shirts...)

ah well...

[One Eyed Cat]

Ummm, I was engaged to a jew. Ive seen first hand everything that you said is false.

So you draw assumptions about an entire religion based on one person?

OEC

[Buster Friendly]

Who likes Rick? Show of hands...

FACITHST!!!!

[Jax]

So you draw assumptions about an entire religion based on one person?

OEC

Who said it was based on one person? He had family, friends, etc.

Thats just like saying draw assumptions on all skins because youve seen the boneheads.

Awesome. We both lose.

[peoplejudgeme]

Ive decided to detach myself from this forum I don't really like it all that much.
Nothing agaisnt any of you just not my kind fo crowd you know??

But hey Deathknight its a been a pleasure speaking with you. Truly it has.
Take care

yay! shalom you racist motherfucker ! adonai will most definately need to watch over your ignorant being

[TheDeathKnight]

As usual, for every person trying to fix a problem, there are 5 people throwing hand grenades...