Women

[gothic rose]

your young. its how it goes. i felt the same way when i was in high school. but i had attitude and actually made FUN of myself instead of letting people make fun of me! you make more friends that way when you have a sense of humor

i'm not concerned with friends. I have 3 friends and my fiance thats all i need, a few really good friends. I'm in one of those groups thats always super paraniod, talks about Bush, way too intulectual, often misunderstood, and everyone thinks were nice quite people. We can't wait to get out of our small town and experience life, but we are too stupid to realize we don't know how to survive in the real wolrd. Sorry ...ADHD of the mind, i have the parpers to prove it!!

[kellie]

I hear ya. I work in a mental hospital, and the womens wards just drain you. Women are, by nature, evil creatures.

[MistressJennifer]

I hear ya. I work in a mental hospital, and the womens wards just drain you. Women are, by nature, evil creatures.

Do you really work in mental hospital? That is cool! I always wanted to be a psychiatrist! Tell me more, what is it like? So the women patients are mean to you?

[kellie]

Do you really work in mental hospital? That is cool! I always wanted to be a psychiatrist! Tell me more, what is it like? So the women patients are mean to you?

Not really mean, more like vampires. They suck you dry emotionally. I dont know how familier you are with the term "borderline personality disorder", but if you get a group of women together and throw in a few borderlines, at least half of the normal women just take on the borderline womens traits. Before long they are all needy, attention seeking, arguing, pushing limits, manipulating, med seeking, fighting, obsessing, and again I will say attention seeking because that part is the worst.
I have been working psych for...almost 6 years now. I fear this may be what I do the rest of my life!
The men patients are not so bad. Most of them come in for drug and alcohol issues. They are usually pretty chill, just want to enjoy their time away from the real world. The worst of the men, in my opinion, are the sexually innapropraite ones. We get the psychotic ones that like to fight, or are delusional, and they are more difficult to deal with. But we just pump them full of meds until they are normal again, and that usually only takes a couple of days.

The sad thing is, its like a revolving door. A lot of people never really get better. They are permanently a mess. They come in every few months. We know them well. We know their families, their problems, their addictions.

[MistressJennifer]

Not really mean, more like vampires. They suck you dry emotionally. I dont know how familier you are with the term "borderline personality disorder", but if you get a group of women together and throw in a few borderlines, at least half of the normal women just take on the borderline womens traits. Before long they are all needy, attention seeking, arguing, pushing limits, manipulating, med seeking, fighting, obsessing, and again I will say attention seeking because that part is the worst.
I have been working psych for...almost 6 years now. I fear this may be what I do the rest of my life!
The men patients are not so bad. Most of them come in for drug and alcohol issues. They are usually pretty chill, just want to enjoy their time away from the real world. The worst of the men, in my opinion, are the sexually innapropraite ones. We get the psychotic ones that like to fight, or are delusional, and they are more difficult to deal with. But we just pump them full of meds until they are normal again, and that usually only takes a couple of days.

The sad thing is, its like a revolving door. A lot of people never really get better. They are permanently a mess. They come in every few months. We know them well. We know their families, their problems, their addictions.

So I just looked up "borderline personality disorder", and it seems to describe a lot of people I know!! But I am sure it is a bit more serious in your situation.

Did you ever see "Girl Interrupted"? How accurate is that? Is that a bit like where you work?

My mother was schizophrenic and on hypnotic drugs her entire life. She used to have episodes when I was little. Later on she got more stable. But the drugs tended to make her kind of far away...

[kellie]

So I just looked up "borderline personality disorder", and it seems to describe a lot of people I know!! But I am sure it is a bit more serious in your situation.

Did you ever see "Girl Interrupted"? How accurate is that? Is that a bit like where you work?

My mother was schizophrenic and on hypnotic drugs her entire life. She used to have episodes when I was little. Later on she got more stable. But the drugs tended to make her kind of far away...

The place I work at now is short term, acute care. I worked in a long term residential hospital like the one in Girl Interrupted back in Florida though. But no...not quite like that. There is a big difference between the 70s and now though.

Well, the drugs your mom were probably on are not used so much today. The antipsychotic medications in the past used to cause so many side effects, that most schizophrenic patients would rather deal with their illness than the medication. In the past 10 years, many new medications have come out, and I hear nothing but good things from the patients about them.

[Buster Friendly]

hmmmm. so they created meds with the side effect that causes you to lose the ability to criticize it.

interesting.

[MistressJennifer]

The place I work at now is short term, acute care. I worked in a long term residential hospital like the one in Girl Interrupted back in Florida though. But no...not quite like that. There is a big difference between the 70s and now though.

Well, the drugs your mom were probably on are not used so much today. The antipsychotic medications in the past used to cause so many side effects, that most schizophrenic patients would rather deal with their illness than the medication. In the past 10 years, many new medications have come out, and I hear nothing but good things from the patients about them.

So what would you say is the main difference between now and the 70's? Are they more lenient? Do they use different methods, drugs, etc. I am curious.

My mother was on stellazine all her life. It was a bit hard to get through to her sometimes.

[kellie]

So what would you say is the main difference between now and the 70's? Are they more lenient? Do they use different methods, drugs, etc. I am curious.

My mother was on stellazine all her life. It was a bit hard to get through to her sometimes.

A lot of things were outlawed, and considered inhumane since then. Now a patient can only be in 4 point restraints with a physician order, and the order than only be written for an hour at a time. Every hour the patient has to be reassessed, and I dont think the total time can go over 4 hours. Someone has to be with the patient the whole time, and write down every 15 minutes the progress of what is going on. The patient has to be offered water, have their circulation checked every so often, have vital signs monitored, etc.
I have never actually seen a padded room.
Straight jackets are outlawed too, I managed to get one of the old ones from work. There is a photoshoot in the future waiting to happen in that baby.
Patient rights are really big now, and they used to not be. Anything that violates patient rights has to go through a huge process. Restricting, Seclusion, etc.

Stellazine is not even used that much at all anymore. It causes neuro disorders, like tardive dyskensia, hormone imbalances, and I believe can be fatal from overdose. The new medications are not fatal from overdose, that is the biggest change in modern psychiatric medicine. The only way a person can die from an overdose is if the medication is capable of stopping their breathing or heart, and none of the new meds do that.

[Tequila Zaire]

Thanks Kellie for the info, very interesting stuff. Truth be told I've always had a pretty Hollywood image of all that so this has been a nice insight into something I know so little about.

[Pull~My~Hair]

The sad thing is, its like a revolving door. A lot of people never really get better. They are permanently a mess. They come in every few months. We know them well. We know their families, their problems, their addictions.

it's so true, my sister is schysophrenic and bi-polar...shes been in and out of mental insitutions for years...she'll be fine for a few months and then we'll have the cops call saying shes hanging off of a bridge laughing... its really sad, she has three kids...and there is NOTHING anyone can do about it. no matter how many meds she takes, she will always live in a scared twisted world.

Also, being around her for a while, makes you think YOU are the one thats nuts..

[Crosscleaver]

I have a friend in Hollywood who is an actress, and she is the sweetest, nicest person I've ever met. I hope show business doesn't change her.

On the note of sanitariums, my wife is a Psychiatrist, and during her schooling/OJT, the head of an institution took her and some other students into a room where two patients were. One was on his bunk, resting. The other stood on it, one hand in his shirt. Doc said, "This is patient is the epitome of someone having delusions of gradeur." To the man he said, "Who are you?"

"I am Napoleon Bonaparte!"

The Doc asked, "Why do you think you are Napoleon?"

The man said, "God told me so."

The other man on his bunk sat up. "I did NOT!"

True story.

[MistressJennifer]

A lot of things were outlawed, and considered inhumane since then. Now a patient can only be in 4 point restraints with a physician order, and the order than only be written for an hour at a time. Every hour the patient has to be reassessed, and I dont think the total time can go over 4 hours. Someone has to be with the patient the whole time, and write down every 15 minutes the progress of what is going on. The patient has to be offered water, have their circulation checked every so often, have vital signs monitored, etc.
I have never actually seen a padded room.
Straight jackets are outlawed too, I managed to get one of the old ones from work. There is a photoshoot in the future waiting to happen in that baby.
Patient rights are really big now, and they used to not be. Anything that violates patient rights has to go through a huge process. Restricting, Seclusion, etc.

Stellazine is not even used that much at all anymore. It causes neuro disorders, like tardive dyskensia, hormone imbalances, and I believe can be fatal from overdose. The new medications are not fatal from overdose, that is the biggest change in modern psychiatric medicine. The only way a person can die from an overdose is if the medication is capable of stopping their breathing or heart, and none of the new meds do that.

Wow... A lot different. Do you think it is better? I mean do you think these methods are too lenient? I guess that is a tough question, who can say? My mother went to Langly Porter, where they took Marilyn Monroe and they gave her shock treatment... Horrible to think about. I know they stopped that a long time ago...

I watched "Girl Interrupted" again, great film, they used shock treatment in that film too...

[MistressJennifer]

it's so true, my sister is schysophrenic and bi-polar...shes been in and out of mental insitutions for years...she'll be fine for a few months and then we'll have the cops call saying shes hanging off of a bridge laughing... its really sad, she has three kids...and there is NOTHING anyone can do about it. no matter how many meds she takes, she will always live in a scared twisted world.

Also, being around her for a while, makes you think YOU are the one thats nuts..

Oh I know, I have known so many crazy club kids, wild girls, you name it. I seem to be drawn to them. Maybe because I feel that I am a bit crazy too. I have it in my blood, I try to indulge my two personalities in an artistic way!!! But I guess we are all a little crazy.

OR maybe I still feel as if I should have been a psychiatrist. Sometimes I think I am, or I try to be. I have not been very successful with some of my crazy club girl friends.

I know, sometimes there is NOTHING you can do... I mean, you are trying to live your own life, how can you save someone else at the same time? You just try your best, but you can't blame yourself...

[MistressJennifer]

I have a friend in Hollywood who is an actress, and she is the sweetest, nicest person I've ever met. I hope show business doesn't change her.

On the note of sanitariums, my wife is a Psychiatrist, and during her schooling/OJT, the head of an institution took her and some other students into a room where two patients were. One was on his bunk, resting. The other stood on it, one hand in his shirt. Doc said, "This is patient is the epitome of someone having delusions of gradeur." To the man he said, "Who are you?"

"I am Napoleon Bonaparte!"

The Doc asked, "Why do you think you are Napoleon?"

The man said, "God told me so."

The other man on his bunk sat up. "I did NOT!"

True story.

That's cute!! Hah!

[Toe Cutter]

...I know they stopped that a long time ago...

Are you sure? I thought they still did that? What about labotomies, do they still do that? They both seem quite barbaric to me.

[MistressJennifer]

Are you sure? I thought they still did that? What about labotomies, do they still do that? They both seem quite barbaric to me.

Oh my god, they still do it!

http://www.hammero.biz

SO scary! They call it ECT! I didn't think they still did it! Boy, I am totally staying away from shrinks and doctors! I don't trust anyone!

As far as I can read on Google, they don't do lobotomy anymore, but yech!! So creepy that they ever even did that!!!

[MistressJennifer]

Whoops! That link is wrong, it is to a director not shock therapy! God I am such a computer bimbo!! It must be that lobotomy I had last year...

[sunkarma]

it's so true, my sister is schysophrenic and bi-polar...shes been in and out of mental insitutions for years...she'll be fine for a few months and then we'll have the cops call saying shes hanging off of a bridge laughing... its really sad, she has three kids...and there is NOTHING anyone can do about it. no matter how many meds she takes, she will always live in a scared twisted world.

Also, being around her for a while, makes you think YOU are the one thats nuts..

Help.
A person can't be both. She can be bipolar and have schizoid tendencies...but she can't be BOTH. It is simply NOT POSSIBLE in the terms of diagnosis. There are Axis...
She can be bipolar on axis I, then have tendencies on axis II, or schizophrenic on Axis I, and some mania on axis II, but dual disorders such as those..and such serious ones...it does not happen. It sounds as if..
1. her psychiatrist is bonkers and doesn't know what he is doing...if she has been this way all her life, there is a 'cocktail' (those of us that are on meds refer to this as the 'perfect formula' that makes one sane...but only after MANY trials and errors does a person reach the right combination of drugs that make a difference) that works for her.
2. She is truly schizophrenic with serious bouts of delusion or mania.
3. She is bipolar with schizoid tendencies.

I think she needs to be diagnosed AGAIN, and she might need shock treatment and the right cocktail of meds. Some medications for bipolar effective disorder INDUCE mania after a time...(the brain becomes used to them..)(same as some prescripts for depression)..which would not work with her condition. Some prescripts for schizophrenia simply WOULD NOT work with people that are bipolar. Either she would walk around in a 'haldol haze' (another term) and be completely dysfunctional or she would be just kookie all the time and it have NO effect.

This bothers me. She needs help, but I don't think she is getting adequate treatment because I don't even KNOW her, yet I know this diagnosis is faulty.

The real question is why people with mental disorders are treated like second class citizens, and recieve sub-par treatment, even medically...sure, they have issues...but that does not mean that they are any different than anyone else that has problems or a disorder or disease. This one is just in your head, not your physical body perse.




Yes, they still do shock therapy...but usually only for people that CANNOT be treated adequately through other means. Usually people who just won't snap out of a depression or people that are very, very manic. BUT...they give you a shot of 'calming' medication before that, they put a bite pad in your mouth, make you all comfie-sometimes you even take a short nap. It takes about 10 mins total. Then you are done. It really does make a difference in some patients. It is not as inhumane as it used to be....waaaayyyyy waaaayyy back. It is NOT like they portray it in movies. ECT is usually used as a last resort now, not a common treatment.

(yes, I've been making my psychiatric ward rounds with my practicums, can't ya tell???)

[MistressJennifer]

Well it says in the article that ECT causes permanent brain damage, so I just can't see how that could be a good thing.

[Toe Cutter]

Yes, they still do shock therapy......they give you a shot of 'calming' medication before that, they put a bite pad in your mouth, make you all comfie-sometimes you even take a short nap. It takes about 10 mins total. Then you are done.

Your description made shock treatment sound kind of cozy and cute. Like a little fuzzy bunny for your brain, with happy colorfull bite pads. Perhaps it's just me, but shooting electricity though somebodys skull as a form of treatment is totally barbaric. I'm sure Dr. Josef Mengeles treatments were not considered inhumane either at some point in time.

[sunkarma]

Depends on the level of current. Usually it is mild..so it does NOT cause any brain damage. If that was the case and electric current caused brain damage...then years worth of using cell phones and watching TV will all cause our brains to rot.

If you use too much juice..well hell yeah, it can fry your brain like eggs. But it has progressed ALOT since it's inception..just like anything else. The amount of current used is mild, and does not cause any damage at all.Which is worse???...living in depression and wanting to kill yourself- not able to function at all, or undergoing 5 sessions of ECT and medication therapy and feeling better?

You also have to weigh the good with the bad. There are risks to everything...but if in the end it is beneficial to the client to put them on ECT therapy (like I said, very few use this and only if they HAVE TO and nothing else has worked)..then I say do it. From a medical perspective I haven't seen any negatives.

[kellie]

Help.
A person can't be both. She can be bipolar and have schizoid tendencies...but she can't be BOTH. It is simply NOT POSSIBLE in the terms of diagnosis. There are Axis...
She can be bipolar on axis I, then have tendencies on axis II, or schizophrenic on Axis I, and some mania on axis II, but dual disorders such as those..and such serious ones...it does not happen. It sounds as if..
1. her psychiatrist is bonkers and doesn't know what he is doing...if she has been this way all her life, there is a 'cocktail' (those of us that are on meds refer to this as the 'perfect formula' that makes one sane...but only after MANY trials and errors does a person reach the right combination of drugs that make a difference) that works for her.
2. She is truly schizophrenic with serious bouts of delusion or mania.
3. She is bipolar with schizoid tendencies.

I think she needs to be diagnosed AGAIN, and she might need shock treatment and the right cocktail of meds. Some medications for bipolar effective disorder INDUCE mania after a time...(the brain becomes used to them..)(same as some prescripts for depression)..which would not work with her condition. Some prescripts for schizophrenia simply WOULD NOT work with people that are bipolar. Either she would walk around in a 'haldol haze' (another term) and be completely dysfunctional or she would be just kookie all the time and it have NO effect.

This bothers me. She needs help, but I don't think she is getting adequate treatment because I don't even KNOW her, yet I know this diagnosis is faulty.

The real question is why people with mental disorders are treated like second class citizens, and recieve sub-par treatment, even medically...sure, they have issues...but that does not mean that they are any different than anyone else that has problems or a disorder or disease. This one is just in your head, not your physical body perse.




Yes, they still do shock therapy...but usually only for people that CANNOT be treated adequately through other means. Usually people who just won't snap out of a depression or people that are very, very manic. BUT...they give you a shot of 'calming' medication before that, they put a bite pad in your mouth, make you all comfie-sometimes you even take a short nap. It takes about 10 mins total. Then you are done. It really does make a difference in some patients. It is not as inhumane as it used to be....waaaayyyyy waaaayyy back. It is NOT like they portray it in movies. ECT is usually used as a last resort now, not a common treatment.

(yes, I've been making my psychiatric ward rounds with my practicums, can't ya tell???)

Schizophrenic + bipolar disorer = Schizoaffective disorder.

I have assisted in ECT many times. They knock you out, stop your breathing, give you a few zaps, give you another injection to wake you up and restart your breathing, and your done. Takes less than 2 minutes to do the actual treatment. It can do wonders, or it can do nothing at all. It can make the elderly very confused though, its sad. ECT is usually only used as a last resort, if all other means of treatment have failed.

[Buster Friendly]

Depends on the level of current. Usually it is mild..so it does NOT cause any brain damage. If that was the case and electric current caused brain damage...then years worth of using cell phones and watching TV will all cause our brains to rot.

.

mmmm, er...

...yeah.

guess what?

TV, and cellphones do fry your brains. (actually TV's alot worse than that... I'm sure you know all about hypnosis, guided imagary, and the physiology of sleep states...)

computer screens too, but at a different wave length.

and ECT has a very unsavory history... I'm sure it's much better now though...

sorry, I know you guys know your stuff, but some of us have seen, and been through way too much at the hands of the psycho-The-rapists, to even give well meaning ones a chance.

you know what they say, fool me once...

(in all fairness I have had a good therapist, he was a high level practicing tibetean buddhist also, so my 'divirgent' ideas about reality were just peachy with him... he actually helped me to refine them, and make them more useful... but that's one out of eight, with four of the others being perfectly ineffective, and three being absolutely toxic... the toxic ones were the ones who insisted on meds, and that their medical degrees gave them an exclusive handle on what was real, and what wasn't.)

I'm much better now.

[Morning Glory]

yeah, I've known a lot of "crazy" people that were institutionalized because they didn't want to get jobs and pay rent, they just wanted to play guitar and hang out with thier freinds all day long. ya know it's pretty funny for a society strung out on drugs, that destroys the environment, puts poison in our food, crashes cars non-stop, drops bombs on people, and prefers living in solitary confinement staring at TV screens to human interaction, we sure got a lot of fucking nerve defining our way of life as "normal."

[sunkarma]

I agree with Kellie..schizoaffective most likely..but not both.
You said BIPOLAR AND SCHIZOPHRENIC...and those are just not possible..of course, you probably don't know her real diagnosis.

I still think she needs a second opinion and some help.

Buster..tell us a story of one of your times...
I'll tell you one of mine.

I've seen it all..from guys swallowing razorblades to kill themselves and ending up in the crazy ward (he was sexually abused by his father/brothers as child and had some serious issues) to a guy who thought he was Mao Tse Tung. (he was actually a brilliant dude....just delusional). Most of this is in my book (where I voluntarily locked myself in a psych ward for 2 weeks...I needed a vacation) "Musings of a Mad Madam"...but I've seen it, heard it...everything.

Kellie, you a nurse or doc?


Sun
Resident Psych...

[MistressJennifer]

I agree with Kellie..schizoaffective most likely..but not both.
You said BIPOLAR AND SCHIZOPHRENIC...and those are just not possible..of course, you probably don't know her real diagnosis.

I still think she needs a second opinion and some help.

Buster..tell us a story of one of your times...
I'll tell you one of mine.

I've seen it all..from guys swallowing razorblades to kill themselves and ending up in the crazy ward (he was sexually abused by his father/brothers as child and had some serious issues) to a guy who thought he was Mao Tse Tung. (he was actually a brilliant dude....just delusional). Most of this is in my book (where I voluntarily locked myself in a psych ward for 2 weeks...I needed a vacation) "Musings of a Mad Madam"...but I've seen it, heard it...everything.

Kellie, you a nurse or doc?


Sun
Resident Psych...

Oh my god, I really want to read your book....

I have to admit this is all a bit creepy.

But now I vill strap you to ze chair and ve vill proceed vit the ECT therapy.... You vill feel nothing. You vill remember nothing... It is not important zat you vill lose some of your brain capacity, it is all part of your therapy. Now shut up!

ZAP! ZAP!!!

Zere, now you are all better!!!! Here are your diapers....

[sunkarma]

Rotfl....

[MistressJennifer]

I think this is really cool that a thread about a bitchy female film attorney turned into a thread about shock treatment!!! Now if I could only give the bitch attorney some ECT therapy, we would be all set!!!

I will set up a meeting with her and have my boys strap her down and ZAP her!! hah!

[poisen_ivy]

sun karma is right. from what i understand, schizophrenia is kind of like an advanced form of bi-polar. at least, thats what my ex-boyfriend's pyschologist told him when he was diagnosed with bi-polar. he was one of the lucky ones at least that didn't have schizonoid tendencies. on the rare occasions that he took his meds, he was okay. unfortunatly most of the time he wouldn't take them. times like that he was scary. one minute he would be happy and laughing and then someone would say something he didn't agree with and he would start throwing anything he could get his hands on at the closest person to him. it didn't matter if that person was the one who said it or not. i remember one time he actually picked his mom up and tried to throw her out the window. it took his 2 older brothers, both of which are a lot bigger and a lot stronger than he is, to restrain him. we ended up having to lock him in his attic until he calmed down. it took almost 2 hours. after that we all tried to convince his mom to have him admitted to Jones Hill Mental Hospital in Jamestown, New York where he could get the help he needed. she wouldn't budge. she kept insisting she wouldn't have her "baby locked up in some crazy place like that. he isn't insane, just emotionally disturbed." where is he now? back at his mom's house after he robbed her blind and threatend to kill her. from what i hear, he still isn't taking his meds. it's just a matter of time until he flips again and seriously injures someone this time.

[jenova_sin]

I ran across this today I thought I'd share:

Researcher says women compete differently

WASHINGTON, Dec. 30 (UPI) -- Research shows that U.S. women not only compete differently than men in the workplace, they also compete differently with each other.
"It's been such a taboo subject. To say women have problems with each other is seen as anti-woman, but it's not," said Nan Mooney, author of "I Can't Believe She Did That! Why Women Betray Other Women at Work."
"Women are afraid to raise a problem, so it goes underground, and it comes out in a twisted way. Why is it so hard to work with other women? Why are we so nasty to each other?"
Mooney said women aren't more competitive than men, but that they compete differently -- they often shy from direct conflict for talking behind one another's backs, sabotaging success and feeling threatened by other women, reported USA Today Friday.
However, some researchers say the debate of women competing more passive-aggressively than men is misplaced because employees compete differently based on their personality, not on their sex and the issue perpetuates a negative and untrue stereotype.

[funkatron]

Your description made shock treatment sound kind of cozy and cute. Like a little fuzzy bunny for your brain, with happy colorfull bite pads. Perhaps it's just me, but shooting electricity though somebodys skull as a form of treatment is totally barbaric. I'm sure Dr. Josef Mengeles treatments were not considered inhumane either at some point in time.

It's hard not to think of it that way, but modern ECT does seem to be effective in treating severe depression in some cases where no other treatments are working. OTOH, it also seems to cause memory loss, sometimes quite severe.

http://www.ect.org/news/shocked.html

It's also my understanding that with modern ECT, the patients experience no pain. Comparing current ECT practices to Mengele's treatments is misleading, I think.

[sunkarma]

Listen to the funk...
Can't fake the funk....

(I just wanted to say that...ok, it makes no sense, but I wanted to say that.)

Mistress Jen...
I think its cool how a thread about your bitchy film attorney turned into this too...hey...maybe you can take a taser into your next meeting and give her a little ole 'accidental' shock treatment. He he he...

Those things come so small now. I have one that fits into my purse...I left it on one day and nearly shocked the hell out of myself. I didn't have the safety on...trying to show it to a friend and pulled it out of it's case too fast...
zzzzzzzaaaapppp.....

[inox]

That is very true...one cannot fake the funk.