Should a man be required to support a child he did not want?

[Amelia G]

Say two people hook up at some random event. They are not in love. They do not have a relationship. Maybe the guy doesn't even know the chick's last name. But the condom breaks and she gets knocked up.

Should he be required to pay for an abortion?

Should he be required to pay for half an abortion?

Should he be required to support the proceeds of a broken condom with a stranger for the rest of his life?

What if the chick put pinholes in the condom because she knew the guy had some money, but the kid is definitely his genetics?

Is there a point at which the man stops being responsible for a choice someone else makes or does he lose the right to make further choices when he agrees to have sexual intercourse?

[One Eyed Cat]

Say two people hook up at some random event. They are not in love. They do not have a relationship. Maybe the guy doesn't even know the chick's last name. But the condom breaks and she gets knocked up.

Should he be required to pay for an abortion?

Should he be required to pay for half an abortion?

Should he be required to support the proceeds of a broken condom with a stranger for the rest of his life?

What if the chick put pinholes in the condom because she knew the guy had some money, but the kid is definitely his genetics?

Is there a point at which the man stops being responsible for a choice someone else makes or does he lose the right to make further choices when he agrees to have sexual intercourse?

Required by law? No. I would think it fair they both pay half for an abortion. Should he have to pay child support? Yes. If the chick put holes in the condom? No. (Although I suspect you might as well call the welfare office to make advanced reservations for the kid in such instances)

OEC

[OrganizedKhaos]

If she did poke holes in the condom... that would be a bitch to prove....
Esp if he didnt realize she was pregnant... and would want to prove as such in hindsight....
The evidence would most likely have been destroyed.

[Head Wreck]

imho, an honourable person takes on the responsibilities of their actions. but things are hardly ever black and white.

[OrganizedKhaos]

imho, an honourable person takes on the responsibilities of their actions. but things are hardly ever black and white.

Well said... this just makes the Law that much harder to define. Dont you agree?

[Head Wreck]

thats the nature of people for you.

nobody relishes in taking responsibility, if it was possible most people would take a short easy solution

[Bikerpunk]

It's amazing how the double standard works here for most people.

If a girl gets pregnant, one is not entitled to say "she should have kept it in her pants, now she HAS to have the baby because the guy/the state wants her to".

If we're talking about the guy, even if he doesn't want a kid, made that CLEAR beforehand, took all available precautions and she gets pregnant, it's "more fool him - if he doesn't want to pay half his income for 20 years he should never have sex, ever."

[Bikerpunk]

Not most people here, I mean most people.

Men have ZERO reproductive rights.

[OrganizedKhaos]

I tend to agree with you BP... in a certain sense.

Its like... if a man and woman hook up, and the woman gets pregnant... man wants baby woman doesnt... woman says, termination, man says life... but ultimately its her say that goes.

[Bikerpunk]

What do you mean, a certain sense?

If a guy wants a baby, and she changes her mind, it's gonna be terminated.
If a guy doesn't want a baby, as others have said, a pinprick in a condom or lying about taking the pill and she doesn't have to work for the next 18 years.

I know a girl who got prego by three men - she has a REALLY comfortable living. Feeds the kids on next to nothing and invested the money. She'll literally NEVER have to work.

[OrganizedKhaos]

I mean, in a certain sense, I'm thinking of a Maury episode...
and that everything isnt all cut and dry black and white...

I dont like it when anyone abuses the system... in any sort.

[Bikerpunk]

Well, you have to understand, the prime reason for all of this is that the state does not want to pay for anything.

Child welfare and social services used to be there to help and protect and nurture kids. The state has decided that that is too expensive, they'd rather be debt collectors and law enforcement and transfer welfare duties to men, taking their percentage, of course.

[OrganizedKhaos]

True.

[Pull~My~Hair]

Sooo..Okay..if the woman knows from the beginning that the guy doesn't want the kid, well this is where the womans choice kicks in...she can choose to get rid of it, be it adoption abortion or whatever..Or she can choose to have it, BUT in choosing to have it she should also be choosing to pay for it and keep it out of the guys life. He couldn't choose to have an abortion, and he would've.
I truely feel that if a man expresses his complete distaste from the beginning , it should never be forced upon him. That is too much responsibilty shoved on a person for a good relationship to build..I wouldn't want that type of relationship between my child and their father anyway.

[Morning Glory]

You do the crime, you pay the time. so to speak.

If you don't want to accept the responsibilities of your actions IE: potentially having a kid, then you shouldn't be having sex. period.

I don't think that is in any way unreasonable to ask. You can always just masturbate if you aren't willing to accept that.

If the guy doesn't care about the woman's feeling, he doesn't care about the life of his child, and he only cares about how it will effect him, fuck him. send him the bill in the mail and let him go live like a boy instead of a man.

I'm not saying by that statement that I don't agree with abortion. I think it should be a mutual decision since both people are equally responsible. But ultimately it should rightly so be the woman's choice because she is the one that has to have the baby.

I can totally understand 100% not wanting to have a kid when you aren't ready for one. But if you do have one, then what kind of man would you be to say, "sorry, kid. tough luck. I don't want you and I'm not going to even help pay to raise you."?

I know that it depends on the situation. Like you said Biker punk, it's wrong for a woman to take advantage of a man to get his money, that money is supposed to go toward their kid, not for her profit.

My sister's dad was never a part of her life and he never paid for child support, he would quit his jobs and move out of state to avoid getting tracked down by the IRS.

[tatum radcliffe]

It should be required that either parent walking out on a kid be made to pay child support.

I'm one of those abandoned kids, though.

[Bikerpunk]

I know that it depends on the situation. Like you said Biker punk, it's wrong for a woman to take advantage of a man to get his money, that money is supposed to go toward their kid, not for her profit.

In other words, I should never have sex again.

No sweat, that's how life's workin out anyway.

[Morning Glory]

got a lot of gold diggers, BP?

[Bikerpunk]

got a lot of gold diggers, BP?

No, but according to you, unless I'm prepared to finance someone's child, I should abstain from sex. There's no ifs ands or buts. She gets knocked up and wants to keep it, I should be forced to pay, and should I not want to, my only option is to never have sex, am I right?

[OrganizedKhaos]

You DO know that they make ovulation predictors... I think those are an extra benefit for avoiding pregnancy....

EVEN THOUGH condoms are good for preventing STD's in cluding pregnancy...

AN ovulation predictor is the extra step in prevention.

THIS MAY BE SOMETHING TO CHECK INTO....

Me and my husband dont use any sort of pill, and on the rare occasion a condom.... the way we prevent pregnancy is abstain during ovulation. Its worked so far....

AND we're Bertle and Myrtle Fertile!!!

[Bikerpunk]

That's still not 100% effective.

[Morning Glory]

No, but according to you, unless I'm prepared to finance someone's child, I should abstain from sex. There's no ifs ands or buts. She gets knocked up and wants to keep it, I should be forced to pay, and should I not want to, my only option is to never have sex, am I right?

that's correct. and that seems to be the law's point of view on the subject as well. perhaps you should be a little bit more careful in screening future sex partners than, shouldn't you?

you act like I'm the bad guy because someone fucked a chick without knowing her stance on parenthood, got her pregnant, and then is pissed because he has to pay so that she can raise their kid because he doesn't want to.

you really think that you should be able to have sex and then not be held responsible for the kid that you helped to create? Or else force a chick to get an abortion or raise the kid on her own? that sounds pretty shitty to me. sorry.

[Bikerpunk]

Cause like, women never lie or change their minds or anything.

[Bikerpunk]

For the record, it sounds pretty shitty to force a guy into paying for you and a kid he didn't want, but then again, as you say, women have options, men have obligations.

Solution - don't have sex.

Sounds about right.

[drewblood]

For the record, it sounds pretty shitty to force a guy into paying for you and a kid he didn't want .

you have an impressive ability to completely ignore the perspective of the baby that needs to be taken care of (which actually requires money). we'll just let the lil fucker starve and then tell him he was an accident, no hard feelings.

[Mr Karl]

In my vision of the future, sperm can be harvested until males decide it's time to lose thier virginty and it will be a crime to have sex without having had a vasectomy.

no exceptions....................problem solved

[One Eyed Cat]

If she did poke holes in the condom... that would be a bitch to prove....
Esp if he didnt realize she was pregnant... and would want to prove as such in hindsight....
The evidence would most likely have been destroyed.

Yeah, but something tells me it shows up in her sillyspace journal.

[Bikerpunk]

you have an impressive ability to completely ignore the perspective of the baby that needs to be taken care of (which actually requires money). we'll just let the lil fucker starve and then tell him he was an accident, no hard feelings.

Maybe if it was the law that a girl, if the guy didn't want to have a baby in the case of accidental pregnancy, would be REQUIRED to get an abortion by law, WOMEN would think twice about sex.

As it stands, you seem to misunderstand me greatly. I pay a great deal of my income to support my two well loved kids, and have no regrets about it.

All I was saying was, your stance is "don't want em don't have sex".

Suits me. (puts penis back in pants)

[OrganizedKhaos]

What do you think Amelia?

[drewblood]

ah... umm... well if you have kids that dont live with you but still take care of.. then ya my bad, i misunderstood you. the point i felt i was trying to make is (as a guy that likes sex but doesnt want kids), is that if I did get a girl pregnant, i would hope i'd step up and do the right thing for the child...and i see that financially supporting what the woman wants to do is part of that.

should it be required by law to split the expenses.... ya.. i think it should be. fuck me... i made it happen, i should be responsible for it right?

i mean as much as u love ur kids...say they had a different dad who was reluctant to pay for their upbringing... wouldnt you want the dad to be financially accountable even if he only did so because it was the law?

not having sex just doesnt seem like a viable option to me.

[Bikerpunk]

should it be required by law to split the expenses.... ya.. i think it should be. fuck me... i made it happen, i should be responsible for it right?

The law is the MAN has to pay.
For a woman's choice.

I'm not saying it's cut and dried right or wrong.
I'm saying that if I end up in a situation I can't financially afford, society will say "nyah nyah, we take everything you own, shoulda kept it in your pants" as I'm hauled off to federal pound you in the ass prison.

So guess what? No sex.

It's been an option for me most of my life, given that I am sexually unattractive.

[OrganizedKhaos]

You have to be to SOMEBODY.... maybe just not the ones YOU'RE attracted to....

Please dont take this the wrong way... I love you to death, I have the same prob with me too....
I tend to like ppl outta my league. Its important to NOT allow this to affect the way you think about yourself.

[Bikerpunk]

It's a moot point anyway. I can't afford any more kids.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Technically I cant either....
Even though I'd like another one... I sure as hell dont want to go thru it all again.

BUT if I get in SMELLING distance if a baby .... in the words of an episode of friends.... it makes my uterus skip a beat.

I have a craving for babies... my body's instinct wants to create a baby...
BUT my brain puts a hault to all that nonsense.

I'd love for a friend of mine to have a baby.... but I think for the most part, my baby maker is done...
its somehow saddening.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Creating a life, and sharing my body as a duplex is the most incredible experience I've ever known.
All three pregnancies were very hard on my body. The first resulting in miscarriage....
but the other two were VERY hard on my body.
I had very difficult labor's and deliveries.

The first... my labor was 20 and 1/2 hrs...
and my second was 2 and 1/2 hrs..............he was almost born on the way to the hospital in the car.
NO DRUGS... NO TIME.
The whole having a baby thing scares me to death, but it also makes me a blob of softie....
I love nothing better than a newborn.... and the feeling of holding the future in my hands... yet its so fragile!

[Unforgiven]

I agree with Bikerpunk on many levels, the only way to really not have this problem would be to abstain from having sex until you're ready to take the risk that having sex could produce off-spring, even if he did or did not want a child.

If the woman punctured the condom in order to get a free-ride, that's shitty but you can't prove it and it's the chick that's pregnant so the Law and society is going to move to her side.

In the end, the guy is going to pay either way.. so abstain or prepare for the worst.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Theres a new IUD called Mirena... and it seems so similar to the word Morena... meaning dark women...
Isnt that some hypnotic collective prejudice against the women typically seen on Maury?

I know my statement is a bit generic. please see into it... and evaluate....

[Unforgiven]

Theres a new IUD called Mirena... and it seems so similar to the word Morena... meaning dark women...
Isnt that some hypnotic collective prejudice against the women typically seen on Maury?

I know my statement is a bit generic. please see into it... and evaluate....

I think that the words just happen to be similarly spelled.. but I suppose it could be a blatant prejudice against black women and the black culture as a whole.

Who knows?

[Bikerpunk]

Theres a new IUD called Mirena... and it seems so similar to the word Morena... meaning dark women...
Isnt that some hypnotic collective prejudice against the women typically seen on Maury?

I know my statement is a bit generic. please see into it... and evaluate....

Yes, that doesn't quite work on men.

[drewblood]

For a woman's choice.

I hate to show how much of an asshole i am to prove a point but sometimes it isnt the woman's choice...

there was a girl i slept with in college who was WASTED at the time of said debauchery (i was too, if that makes any difference)...but she told me to put a condom on, i told her i did but really didnt, and then bumped uglies without her knowing the difference...

if she happened to get pregnant would that change your opinion?