I Kissed A Girl

[Bikerpunk]

All my life I've called myself an "Equal Oppourtunity Asshole" and always said that if I think something's funny, I'm gonna say it. If it happens to be a crack on race, religion, preference, wardrobe, mannerisms, intelligence, whatever.

Would you like a cookie or something?

"Hey, don't be offended, I'm racist and bigoted towards everyone". Oh well, thanks for clarifying.

I call bullshit on your "I called them faggots to shock them" - considering your animated gif of someone fondling a penis and giggling as well as the term "faggot" (misspelled by the way) used to describe them well before saying that's what you called them to their faces.

I don't give a shit that you think it's funny to characterize whininess as proof that you have a vagina, or to use "gay" to mean "loser".

And DM, I don't buy that bullshit either that faggot can also mean a British meat product, bundle of sticks used as a torch (which is where its use to mean "gay man" and the term "flamingly gay" come from - the fact that gays were once burned alive). Rockwulf was doing his usual meathead jock routine of saying something dumbass and bigoted for the sake of a cheap laugh. Which depresses me, cause Rockwulf doesn't strike me as a meathead asshole when it comes down to it.

And he's entitled to it - as I said before, Amelia G is fine with it. (Just don't call yourself a "wop".) It's also not against the laws of this country. But just as he's got the right to talk like a popped-collar douchebag in an Affliction T-shirt, I also have the right to agree with those saying "Ur so gay" is bullshit, as was his remarks.

You can agree with me or no, for fuck's sake Rockwulf, should I meet you in person I'd probably buy you a beer and have a few laughs with you. But for the record, take it how you want, I don't find that kind of thing funny.

I await you enjoying the alliteration of "N*gger nutcase" in this forum, and its response, but part of me doesn't think you'd push your shtick that far. Somehow I'd think you'd stick to acceptable targets - women and gays.

[mystoo]

Just don't call yourself a "wop".

Hey, you leave me the hell outta this!

[Rockwulf]

Would you like a cookie or something?

"Hey, don't be offended, I'm racist and bigoted towards everyone". Oh well, thanks for clarifying.

I call bullshit on your "I called them faggots to shock them" - considering your animated gif of someone fondling a penis and giggling as well as the term "faggot" (misspelled by the way) used to describe them well before saying that's what you called them to their faces.

I don't give a shit that you think it's funny to characterize whininess as proof that you have a vagina, or to use "gay" to mean "loser".

And DM, I don't buy that bullshit either that faggot can also mean a British meat product, bundle of sticks used as a torch (which is where its use to mean "gay man" and the term "flamingly gay" come from - the fact that gays were once burned alive). Rockwulf was doing his usual meathead jock routine of saying something dumbass and bigoted for the sake of a cheap laugh. Which depresses me, cause Rockwulf doesn't strike me as a meathead asshole when it comes down to it.

And he's entitled to it - as I said before, Amelia G is fine with it. (Just don't call yourself a "wop".) It's also not against the laws of this country. But just as he's got the right to talk like a popped-collar douchebag in an Affliction T-shirt, I also have the right to agree with those saying "Ur so gay" is bullshit, as was his remarks.

You can agree with me or no, for fuck's sake Rockwulf, should I meet you in person I'd probably buy you a beer and have a few laughs with you. But for the record, take it how you want, I don't find that kind of thing funny.

I await you enjoying the alliteration of "N*gger nutcase" in this forum, and its response, but part of me doesn't think you'd push your shtick that far. Somehow I'd think you'd stick to acceptable targets - women and gays.

Bottom line of this whole bullshit blow-up is this:

1: Katy Perry never called anyone gay except the person she wrote the song about.

2: I didn't call anyone a faggot except the kids that were giving me grief.

3. Nobody here has ever met or hung out with Katy Perry. So nobody here knows what her context is for her song.

4. Nobody here had ever met or hung out with me. So nobody here knows what my context is for my delivery of a joke.

5. I'm Scottish/Itallian by decent. As part of my "Equal Oppourtunity Asshole" vibe I crack on my own heritage as much as anyone else. "Hey, you hear about the Italian tires? Dego in rain, dego in snow, and when dego flat dego 'wop wop wop' "

6. I'm glad that you realize that I'm not the "jock asshole" guy BP. Because I'm not. I grew up as the fat kid. Until about 5 years ago, if you were to take a look at me, "jock" would be the furthest thing from your mind.

So everyone who's reading this thread, read what I'm about to say as if it were your own thought:

Katy Perry isn't calling me gay.
Rockwulf never called me a faggot.
Sometimes it's just a joke.
Sometimes it's not all about me.
Context is important.

[Amelia G]

Bottom line of this whole bullshit blow-up is this:

1: Katy Perry never called anyone gay except the person she wrote the song about.

2: I didn't call anyone a faggot except the kids that were giving me grief.

3. Nobody here has ever met or hung out with Katy Perry. So nobody here knows what her context is for her song.

4. Nobody here had ever met or hung out with me. So nobody here knows what my context is for my delivery of a joke.

5. I'm Scottish/Itallian by decent. As part of my "Equal Oppourtunity Asshole" vibe I crack on my own heritage as much as anyone else. "Hey, you hear about the Italian tires? Dego in rain, dego in snow, and when dego flat dego 'wop wop wop' "

6. I'm glad that you realize that I'm not the "jock asshole" guy BP. Because I'm not. I grew up as the fat kid. Until about 5 years ago, if you were to take a look at me, "jock" would be the furthest thing from your mind.

So everyone who's reading this thread, read what I'm about to say as if it were your own thought:

Katy Perry isn't calling me gay.
Rockwulf never called me a faggot.
Sometimes it's just a joke.
Sometimes it's not all about me.
Context is important.

Katy Perry told me that when she had you suck her date's cock, purely for shock marketing value of course, you were not wearing those dumb lowrider emo girl pants, so she totally did not consider that a gay blowjob.

I'm kidding. Katy Perry didn't really tell me that. The management team, who writes all her lines for her, actually passed the message along about her not calling you gay.

[Rockwulf]

Katy Perry told me that when she had you suck her date's cock, purely for shock marketing value of course, you were not wearing those dumb lowrider emo girl pants, so she totally did not consider that a gay blowjob.

I'm kidding. Katy Perry didn't really tell me that. The management team, who writes all her lines for her, actually passed the message along about her not calling you gay.

Is this the part where I'm supposed to gather up all my rightous indignation and act like I give a shit?

Whooops. Looks like I missed my cue.

[Amelia G]

Is this the part where I'm supposed to gather up all my rightous indignation and act like I give a shit?

Whooops. Looks like I missed my cue.

Nope, I tossed you a softball. This is where you are supposed to laugh to make your point about preconception and context. We both know that I think you bang chicks. Hence that should be at least mildly humorous.

[Rockwulf]

Ah, but you only think you think that I bang chicks.

[ForrestBlack]

...Kids... don't make me stop the car...

[Amelia G]

Ah, but you only think you think that I bang chicks.

I could be wholly inaccurate, but the context for my statement was my obvious assumption that you bang chicks. Not that it is my most hilarious prose effort ever either way, but there is no humor value if you bang dudes. Unless the context were that you specifically bang dudes with Katy Perry; then it would be funny again.

[Amelia G]

We've already established forum rules:

- demonyms based on ETHNICITY are banned.
- demonyms based on "RACE" are banned.

Comments about homosexuality which are appallingly negative are "funny".

I checked and it doesn't appear that anybody added that to the FAQ any time since last I looked.

[Amelia G]

...Kids... don't make me stop the car...

Are we there yet?

[Rockwulf]

I could be wholly inaccurate, but the context for my statement was my obvious assumption that you bang chicks. Not that it is my most hilarious prose effort ever either way, but there is no humor value if you bang dudes. Unless the context were that you specifically bang dudes with Katy Perry; then it would be funny again.

But now you're bringing me into the argument specifically

You're not saying "jews" or "wops" or "fags" or "******s" or "dykes" or whatever broad group of faceless masses for a joke or for a song.

You quoted my post directly and said "Hey Rockwulf, you sucked Katy Perry's date's dick."

And that's the majority of my point. That SHOULD piss me off. But I know the context and what you were trying to do. I know you were trying to prove a point but weren't attacking me specifically.

At the end of the day, some people just have a thicker skin than others.

[One Eyed Cat]

Faggot ass frat boy is kind of funny given the paradox. They tend to be about as homophobic as they come. I am tiring of the use of the word "gay" to denote everything negative. It doesn't offend me, I just find it fucking silly and monotonous. It probably does have a negative effect on some people's perception of sexualities, but the lack of originality is more troubling. Went to Wednesday 13 (great show). It was all ages. I must have heard "gay" denote something (not someone even mind you) some kid didn't like 50 times. I just threw them all in the idiot category and enjoyed the show. Lot of able kids out there, but we seem to be raising a lot of dumbshits. The % is rising.

OEC

[One Eyed Cat]

In response to the original post: Some of us gents have had actual bisexual girlfriends. We are generally not that predisposed to threesomes for obvious reasons. There are exceptions. I don't care who is a real or fake lesbian (unless some silly chick wastes the time of one of my lesbian friends).

OEC

[Rockwulf]

Thank you for noticing OEC. Usually the frat boy crew are supposed to be the pinicle of manlines if you pay attention to movies of my generation.

Revenge of the Nerds etc, were what me and my friends were raised on.

So saying "The guys that are supposed to be all tough and strong while acting homophobic and assaulting actual gays, are actually closeted homosexuals and completely self-loathing." is what I'm getting at. It's ironic that the "tough guys" would turn out to be the "girly guys"

[One Eyed Cat]

Thank you for noticing OEC. Usually the frat boy crew are supposed to be the pinicle of manlines if you pay attention to movies of my generation.

Revenge of the Nerds etc, were what me and my friends were raised on.

So saying "The guys that are supposed to be all tough and strong while acting homophobic and assaulting actual gays, are actually closeted homosexuals and completely self-loathing." is what I'm getting at. It's ironic that the "tough guys" would turn out to be the "girly guys"

Yeah, I see the same phenomena.

[Bacchus88]

wow this topic went deep about simple song, but what is really interesting is the is everyone views. Now being gay is mute point with me, what happens behind closed doors is your business. To be really honest, have no gay friends to speak of. Now going back what rockwulf said yeah I know few like that. If they turn out to be gay, hey thats cool man. "I may not agree with it" You can bang monkey on main st, but I am still your friend.

[DonkeyMoses]

I don't agree with the notion that you can be an offensive jerk and try to use words to hurt people and then say that it's up to them how they take it, that they shouldn't take it offensively and it's there fault for being offended, not yours for being offensive.

as bikerpunk points out, maybe it would make a difference if they really were just words, but those words are predicated on a legacy of hate filled actions that back them up. when the klan says that they want to kill black people, they don't mean they are just offering there POV and it's all good if you don't agree with them - they mean they want to kill all black people. and the fact that they are still saying that shit today, to have other people say "get over it." is ridiculous.

obviously some of these words have been "reclaimed" and they might sincerely have no ill effect, but the point is that it's rude and inconsiderate to expect other people to feel the same way if they are used to being victimized by them, and it's even worse to just assume and not to even consider if that is the case or not.

You know me, that i've put my own foot in my mouth a few times when it comes to doing that, so i'm trying to be a little bit more considerate of other people's feelings. there's nothing wrong with that.

I think you missed the part about context. Or Subtext even. I agree that you shouldn't be a jerk and use words to hurt people then say it's up to them how they take it. It's something different to pretend to be a jerk and use offensive words to make them laugh. It's irony.
On the other end, if the clan uses the words "we want to kill black people" in that context, by your consideration, that makes the words "black people" offensive in a different context? If any hate group would start using nonoffensive words in a derrogatory mannor, would those be on the list too?

[Bikerpunk]

Faggot ass frat boy is kind of funny given the paradox. They tend to be about as homophobic as they come. I am tiring of the use of the word "gay" to denote everything negative.

A lot of deep homophobes, as Rockwulf pointed out, are severely closeted themselves.

Now, I wonder why they'd suppress their own feelings and channel feelings of lust into anger, and maybe end up beating a couple of people into a coma before they either do realise they're gay (seen that happen a couple or times) or worse, don't, and walk around with a lot of hatred?

Now, it could first be because of off-hand comments dropped that imply that gay people are all a bunch of eyeliner wearing, silk shirt modelling, mincing queens, or whiny guys with floppy hair. Jock boy looks at himself, looks at the "stereotype" and says, 'naw, can't be me, I don't wear lipstick and don't want to". I'm exaggerating to make the point.

It could also be because his friends and society in general CONSTANTLY make remarks about "that's gay" , "oh my God, how gay", and use insulting terms. "Yeah, did you see those loser faggot emo boys? (GIF of wibbling penis). Yeah, they're so lame they clearly gargle with semen. HYUK HYUK HYUK. Now, what were you gonna tell me, dude?" "Never mind, nothin'. YEAH LET'S GO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HIM."

That was MY point. Which went missing.

[Bikerpunk]

Then they go watch the UFC, which is one of the most interesting phenomena I've ever seen.

Apparently, the way to win a fight in these "cage matches" is to drop to the ground, wrap your legs around him, press your asshole against his dick and hug him REALLY REALLY hard.

Now, lest you think I'm being backhandedly homophobic myself - I'm sure the guys are straight, realise full well that's a GOOD strategy against being kicked or pummeled, and that description was deliberate only to show how it's eerily similar to a porn video playing in a gay bar.

I wonder how many of these guys, while enjoying macho, manly pursuits like cage fighting, pro wrestling and bodybuilding, aren't subconsciously into it to see booty-shorts wearing men in a clinch?

[DonkeyMoses]

And DM, I don't buy that bullshit either that faggot can also mean a British meat product, bundle of sticks used as a torch (which is where its use to mean "gay man" and the term "flamingly gay" come from - the fact that gays were once burned alive).

You'll notice I didn't say that at all. Too cliche an argument. I was taking the word out of context and even definition. Then putting it back into context as a juxtaposition to show the difference between hurtful words and letters arranged to form a sound. That does bring up an interesting point. Should the british stop using the word "fag" for cigerette despite that the etymology is correct (the burning stick thing)? It's enough I can't use the word "queer" to call somone odd, or gay to mean happy. When my computer is being slow I can't call it retarded (from the latin for slow) without someone being upset. These aren't words meant to hurt, they're in their true context. But according to this argument, they're bad words. This doesn't mean I condone the use of these words in their derrogatory context, I mean look at what people mean, not what they say. Calling someone a faggot is just rude and offensive. The word itself is just that. Bad energy is what it is. Words can be used as one tool for spreading it. I personally don't use a lot of the same humor on line as I do in person because there is too much communication lost in inflection, expression, and just the fact that none of you know me outside of this forum.

[Bikerpunk]

Should the british stop using the word "fag" for cigerette despite that the etymology is correct (the burning stick thing)?

No, because it's used in the UK because of the fact that a faggot is a lit bundle of sticks. Nothing to do with gays. "Fag" or "faggot" is rarely used there to mean gay - they understand the Americans do it, but they don't. They're more likely to use "poof", "whoopsie", "jessie" or "shirtlifter" (as well as other terms, like chocolate stabber, etc)

Just like here: "Fanny" here is a polite nursery euphemism for "buttocks". In the UK it's "cunt" - with near the same level of vulgarity.

As for the Generation Y habit of using the term "that's retarded", I take umbrage with that too. Quit a job over it, even.

[One Eyed Cat]

A lot of deep homophobes, as Rockwulf pointed out, are severely closeted themselves.

Now, I wonder why they'd suppress their own feelings and channel feelings of lust into anger, and maybe end up beating a couple of people into a coma before they either do realise they're gay (seen that happen a couple or times) or worse, don't, and walk around with a lot of hatred?

Now, it could first be because of off-hand comments dropped that imply that gay people are all a bunch of eyeliner wearing, silk shirt modelling, mincing queens, or whiny guys with floppy hair. Jock boy looks at himself, looks at the "stereotype" and says, 'naw, can't be me, I don't wear lipstick and don't want to". I'm exaggerating to make the point.

It could also be because his friends and society in general CONSTANTLY make remarks about "that's gay" , "oh my God, how gay", and use insulting terms. "Yeah, did you see those loser faggot emo boys? (GIF of wibbling penis). Yeah, they're so lame they clearly gargle with semen. HYUK HYUK HYUK. Now, what were you gonna tell me, dude?" "Never mind, nothin'. YEAH LET'S GO BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HIM."

That was MY point. Which went missing.

Kind of figured it was. What gets me: I don't think some of these kids really care about different sexualities. At the same time, you are correct. It will enable those that do to bash with more impunity. It's language FUBAR. Hard to convey without seeing it almost imo.

[OrganizedKhaos]

This is only partially related to the topic being discussed.

I think the importance of freedom of speech, can be underrated in situations where politically correctness is supposed to be enforced....

If someone's racist.... and is allowed to express it, that person reveals it, allowing the one's against it... to avoid that person.

If its not allowed to be expressed... that person's bigotry is hidden in plain sight... (sorta)
I like to know who I'm dealing with ...
The more a person is given the room to reveal their views, minimal time is required to find out if they're worth pursuing a friendship or not.

Does that make sense?

For the most part, WORDS are all we have to work with, in deciphering the character of those we come in contact with online.

This can also apply to the ppl we meet in real life.

[One Eyed Cat]

This is only partially related to the topic being discussed.

I think the importance of freedom of speech, can be underrated in situations where politically correctness is supposed to be enforced....

If someone's racist.... and is allowed to express it, that person reveals it, allowing the one's against it... to avoid that person.

If its not allowed to be expressed... that person's bigotry is hidden in plain sight... (sorta)
I like to know who I'm dealing with ...
The more a person is given the room to reveal their views, minimal time is required to find out if they're worth pursuing a friendship or not.

Does that make sense?

For the most part, WORDS are all we have to work with, in deciphering the character of those we come in contact with online.

This can also apply to the ppl we meet in real life.

Political correctness has become a double-edged sword imo. I run into people using "I'm opposed to PC" to make some fairly ridiculous (and unfunny) statements. If it's just humor, I'll generally recognize it. There's too much absurdity in the world not to poke fun at it. My general standard is when I hear things that get people hurt (not that hurt their "feelings") per se. If people are actually against certain groups, so be it. They should have the guts to admit it (your point I take it). I'll generally be on my merry way. 'Wulf was just using a form of subterfuge that I actually see as beneficial. The frat boys causing problems at shows should be thrown offguard and challenged.

OEC

[Morning Glory]

if the clan uses the words "we want to kill black people" in that context, by your consideration, that makes the words "black people" offensive in a different context?

it's the part about killing people that is kind of offensive and since it's directed at blacks, they are the one's that are most likely going to be offended.

I'm not trying to say that we should ban anything. I'm just saying it's not all black and white, so to speak. the attitude seems to be either say everything or say nothing.

context is important, but it's not the same context for everyone. that's what I said before and that was my point.

[Bikerpunk]

The frat boys causing problems at shows should be thrown offguard and challenged.

So you're cool with him saying it's perfectly okay to say "I jewed him down on the price" too?

[One Eyed Cat]

So you're cool with him saying it's perfectly okay to say "I jewed him down on the price" too?

No. I don't think folks should use language like that. I think he takes things over the line. I don't think he's a bigot or really cares how he is interpreted, however.

OEC

[Mr Karl]

so............I wonder what companies gonna buy the rights to use this song in a commercial

[Buster Friendly]

Wow, what a fun little thread this has been so far.

"Faggot" is usually the first insult I hear at the beginning of a violent altercation.

I am unsure what it is about that word that makes people believe they have the right to assault another person. Or what kind of magical properties it must contain for them to delude themselves into thinking they have a chance of getting away with it.

"Faggot" was also a term that was directed at me often enough to make me notice when I dressed in a punk/goth/freak style.

My preferred method of revenge usually is to fuck the other guy's girlfriend/

[OrganizedKhaos]

"faggot" (misspelled by the way)
I don't buy that bullshit either that faggot can also mean a British meat product, bundle of sticks used as a torch (which is where its use to mean "gay man" and the term "flamingly gay" come from - the fact that gays were once burned alive).

How is faggot supposed to be spelled? According to what you're saying? Just curious.

and the "Flaming Gay" term comes from shortening the adjective Flamboyant. : marked by or given to strikingly elaborate or colorful display or behavior

[Bikerpunk]

He spelled it fagot. It's "Faggot".

And yes, "flaming gay" came from the medieval torching of known homosexuals.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Thanks for the reply.

[Bikerpunk]

One thing that stuck very firmly in my mind: there was some dude killed in my original home town. He was coming home from work and minding his own business, when he was set upon by a group of guys, beaten three quarters to death, and then thrown off a bridge. The bridge was high enough that the impact killed him.

It was a gaybashing - they thought they were beating up a faggot.

The man was straight. But he was slim, dressed nicely for his job as a waiter - and they thought he clearly had sex with men and therefore deserved to have the shit kicked out of him.

As Buster said - he's not gay and he dealt with that kind of insult as a precursor to a fight.

Food for thought.

[OrganizedKhaos]

Any hate crime sucks... period.

[Rockwulf]

Crime sucks. Period.

A couple months ago here in Philly some dude was walking home from his job when he was jumped by several guys and beaten to death.

Was he gay? Was he straight? Did either of those things affect the guys decision to beat him? Who fuckin' cares? A man was beaten to death. PERIOD!

It doesn't matter why. Some scum-sucking cowards jumped a guy who was outnumbered and surprised.

Did they call him a fag? Did they call him a cracker? Did they call him a jew?

I don't know. And I sure as hell don't' care. It won't change my opinion of them one iota.

[Bikerpunk]

Part of making people non-human and therefore viable targets of violence is to dehumanize them or make them into something acceptable as a target.

Back in the day in Hog Jowls, Mississippi, they didn't lynch a human being and eat a picnic under a twitching corpse, they hung a "N*gger".

Soldiers don't blow away Iraqi children (when they do - some of them are decent human beings doing a damn good job) they kill Hajis - just as the guys in 'Nam dropped napalm and Agent Orange on g**ks, zipperheads, Ch*rlie, etc.

Get rid of hate speech, and you get rid of hate.

I'm not saying you hate people Wulf, I'm saying that songs and comments and jokes about n*ggers and f*gs and suchlike keep it going - even when it comes from Generation Y who aren't hateful.

[DonkeyMoses]

I think it's the other way around. Get rid of hate, and you get rid of hate speech. People are very vocal creatures. As long as they feel something about anything they will express it with words. But they don't hate because somebody came up with a word for what they hate and started using it.
I want to say for the record, that though I've been championing the right to use offensive humor in a non-hurtul or hateful way, that I personally don't generall go for that form of humor. Some people think Carlos Mencia is funny. I just think he's a racist bigot who gets away with it because it's "shock humor" and because he's a minority. It's a form of humor that is base and too easy. It doesn't take a rapier wit to make somebody laugh by using a slur out of context. I just think everyone gets along better when you can recognize the difference between words spoken out of hate and words meant to offend. I just think That the PC monitoring of language is positively Orwellian. It's a sticky wicket. There's always something in your particular mode of speach or sense of humor that will offend someone. It's easy to pick out the obvious infractions, but where does it stop?
Oh, and we dropped Agent Orange on our own people. It was meant to be a defoliant.

[Dusk]

But you have to remember that humans are creatures of habit who may have been taught that this stuff is funny, even though we should (and some people have) realised that this is not ok.

[DonkeyMoses]

it's the part about killing people that is kind of offensive and since it's directed at blacks, they are the one's that are most likely going to be offended.

I get that. I was asking if, because the words "black people" are being used in this situation in a negetive context, all killing aside, could that eventually turn the words "black people" into a slur?

I'm not trying to say that we should ban anything. I'm just saying it's not all black and white, so to speak. the attitude seems to be either say everything or say nothing.

Somewhere in between I think. More like don't limit yourself by your perception of other people's judgements. I can say to my friend "Hey, I want to **** your wife! HA ha ha!" (not something I would actually say, just an example) because he knows that I love his wife and him and am not a rapist, therefore would never do such a thing. But I wouldn't go up to someone who didn't know me well and say the same thing. Thus illustrating that "context is important, but it's not the same context for everyone." Say what you want, just use some taste and common sense. I don't use offensive speech (much) but it doesn't bother me because it's not hate speech. Usually when someone is using offensive speech it is to, well, offend you. If I am offended, then they got what they wanted and will continue. If I'm not offended, they've lost their agenda.
I think I'm done flapping my fingers on this issue. I don't want to be the guy who diatribes every time he comes on the boards. I just want people to be who they are comfortably without fear of others' judgement. You can too easily throw out the baby with the bathwater. I've done it.