obama to sign international agreement to decrim homosexuality

[malcolm]

obama came out today and said we will finally be joining the countries who have signwed an international agreement to decriminalise homosexuality, an agreement the previous administration refused to sign. this makes us the last of the free countries to sign it, the others who ahve not signed it are the oens we're currently fighting with.

[malcolm]

took me forever to find a link here it is:
http://www.itvnews.tv/World/World/us...claration.html
under the agreement, it will not only decriminalise homosexuality but it will also recognise lgbt civil rights and help in protecting people from descrimination and ahte crimes based upon sexual orientation AND gender identity.

[Lady Alias]

Yay!

[malcolm]

i know right? its about time too. according to what i read around, we're like the last western country to sign this agreement.

[nathanmbailey]

I didn't realize it was illegal to be gay...

And great, now when I beat the shit out of a gay guy for a legitimate reason that doesn't involve him being gay, I'm going to be held accountable for a hate crime. That's like when I beat up a black dude for hitting on my girlfriend all night at a club while I was sitting right next to her.

[malcolm]

no, it just means when you beat up a gay guy for being gay that it's considered a hate crime.

[lord_velos]

About damm time!

I'm so glad to see the USA finally come out of the damm dark ages!

[Raza]

I didn't realize it was illegal to be gay...

And great, now when I beat the shit out of a gay guy for a legitimate reason that doesn't involve him being gay, I'm going to be held accountable for a hate crime. That's like when I beat up a black dude for hitting on my girlfriend all night at a club while I was sitting right next to her.

Must suck to be taken for a racist when in reality, you're just a violent, jealous brute.

[nathanmbailey]

Must suck to be taken for a racist when in reality, you're just a violent, jealous brute.

Exactly.... And I wasn't jealous, he just pissed me off and I was drunk... as usual.

[Raza]

Fair enough. Well, maybe not fair, but then at least sincere.

I do agree though, we really don't need laws that make crimes committed against someone with a different skin color or sexual orientation count more heavily than the same ones committed otherwise. That's just one more rule affirming those same differences, one more check that can at best detect real bigotry and do nothing useful with it, at worst see hate that isn't even there and place artificial emphasis on an issue known to escalate that way.

I don't think that's the main point of this bill, though.

[malcolm]

it's not and the way people see hate crimes is a bit twisted. what a hate crime is supposed to protect against is someone who intentionally goes out of their way to target,stalk and assault people of minority groups out of bigotry.

it doesnt mean if johnny white boy gets into a fight with freddy the black guy that its a hate crime,

it means if johnny whiteboy goes out of his way to target,stalk and then assault freddy the black guy because fereddy is black and for no other reason other than that is a hate crime.

but what this agreement is is simply stating that we agree to recognise and protect the civil rights of the lgbt citizens of this country.

it means that lgbt community members don't have to worry about losing a job for being open about themself, it means they dopnt have to worry about being denied housing, support and community groups that are designed to aide the lgbt community dont have to worry about being barred from doing so and it means that little philip the gay kid doesnt have to be told to turn his rainbow wristband inside out or face being expelled from school.

trust me, as someone who has been expelled form high school for wearing makeup and writing a "love note" to a guy i thought liked me who then xeroxed the note off and passed it around the school,

lost a job because of being expelled from school for writing that note,

being denied promotions because the management thought i was too flamboyant even though i worked twice as hard as everyone else in my department

and who has had the displeasure of having to stand in line at a walmart and listen to some asshole redneck stand behind me belittling me and shoving me because i was wearing a pink ring

not to mention having another one come up to me when i was dressed in a costume AT a costume shop say "I should have brought my hunting knife."

yeah, I think it's about damn time that we got on board with this.

[Raza]

We have laws to protect people that'll go out of their way to stalk, harass or hurt people they hate. They're the laws against stalking, harassment or hurting people. Hurting someone out of misplaced dislike for some group you're presuming them to be part of is really no worse than hurting someone out of misplaced anger over a transgression against your outdated rules of romance; it's just a different kind of bad.

Overlap in criminalisation just to reassert public condemnation, no matter how justified it might've been to outlaw the first time, is always a bad idea.


That said, aside from the bit about harsher penalties for hate crimes among civilians, I'm all in favor of addressing discrimination in schools and workplaces and the like. Most injustice stems from rules and hierarchy, not so much from individuals quarreling among one another.

[nathanmbailey]

In most public school systems, the law wouldn't have any affect. A school can determine what is and is not allowed, to include gay pride or whatever, by simply stating that it causes a distraction. There's no fighting with that kind of stuff in schools, they can always come up with a reason something is not allowed other than the outright "we don't like it."

Job wise, I don't know, they've pretty much gotten rid of the "don't ask don't tell" policy in the military. I don't care one way or the other, seeing as I'm one of the guys that makes gay jokes with my friends (not anti-gay jokes, more like acting and saying gay things to mess with people) while we're at work anyway. Other places, I just don't know.

[Morning Glory]

I knew it, obama is not only a commie and a mooslum, but he's a qweer too!

sorry guys, I forgot for a minute that this board wasn't dominated by "conservative" assholes that I need to regularly call out. just a force of habit, sadly.

[malcolm]

i was just sharing all that to explain my perspective on this.

the thing about hate crimes is it can be debated to the end of time if you wanna debate it. one side will see it one way and another will see it another way. i agree with hate crimes but at the same time i have seen it abused in negative ways too.

and no arguing about it will change my mind on that.

as for job descrimination, it does happen.

and the whole school thing, yes, there are ways around keeping a kid from wearing this or that, it's called instituting a school uniform.

the incident i was referring to in both situations were because the prinicpal didnt like it-the boy with the bracelet-

and because the school board considered homosexuality as a lifestyle choice and way for me to draw attention which was not the case here being as the guy who i thought liked me had in fact sent me a dirty love letter before i wrote that one-which he denied in the meeting otherwise he would have been expelled too instead of just being suspended for three days.

but then again not everyone remembers all the "straight camps" that popped up at practically every church in the south back in the nineties.

i think it's a good thing we're joining this agreement i really do.

[Morning Glory]

so if you are in the military and you go up to your CO and tell him that you are gay, you won't be dishonorably discharged?

hehe. "dishonorable discharge" sounds like a euphemism for premature ejaculation.

[malcolm]

i dunno about that. i know when i was in they stillmade you sign a piece of paper that stated you were not bi-sexual or homosexual and that if it came out that you were, you could face a less than honorable discharge for purgery but this was back when the dont ask dont tell law was kind of a joke and clinton was in office.

any clue on that, nathan?

[athenahollow]

In most public school systems, the law wouldn't have any affect. A school can determine what is and is not allowed, to include gay pride or whatever, by simply stating that it causes a distraction. There's no fighting with that kind of stuff in schools, they can always come up with a reason something is not allowed other than the outright "we don't like it."

Which is why I had the IACLU at my school at least once a semester, sometimes twice, because they kept telling me my hair/clothes/piercings/relationships were a distraction. Needless to say, I informed them that if I couldn't wear my pentagram necklace, then every cross had to go and they finally dropped it all.

[Amelia G]

Which is why I had the IACLU at my school at least once a semester, sometimes twice, because they kept telling me my hair/clothes/piercings/relationships were a distraction. Needless to say, I informed them that if I couldn't wear my pentagram necklace, then every cross had to go and they finally dropped it all.

I find it odd that the same argument does not work with Hot Topic.

[Raza]

I find it odd that the same argument does not work with Hot Topic.

How would you like for this argument to apply to hot topic?

[Velvet-Tongue]

Hurray Obama. Moving us kicking and screaming into a less retarded, homogeneous, centrist culture.

[malcolm]

I'll put it like this, even mexico and venezuella signed this thing before we did.

[toxicat]

This is good news (although a day late and a $ short) but what was all the pre-election commotion about Obama being homophobic? homophobic in what regard?

[malcolm]

who said he was homphobic? he promised the lgbt community big changes when he was running. i know he went on to say he didnt morally agree with same sex marriage though but then went on to say he did believe ther eshould be a legal alternative to marriage for same sex couples with the same benefits as marriage.

[Dusk]

who said he was homphobic? he promised the lgbt community big changes when he was running. i know he went on to say he didnt morally agree with same sex marriage though but then went on to say he did believe ther eshould be a legal alternative to marriage for same sex couples with the same benefits as marriage.

Thats what I like. Unless the law is changed in concern to the definition of marriage (wich will never happen cos it would upset the church) then what he suggested is the best alternitive

[keiko]

Finally! Its about fucking time people that don't conform to the "nuclear family" get be considered people instead of lepers. No more being kicked out of school dances because my date is another chick... oh wait, I don't get to start over.

Damnit now I'm old. I've got an "When I was your age..." story that doesn't involve the ever evolving technology.


~K

[malcolm]

progress...she be slow but she happens.

[Dusk]

Yarr!

[Mr Karl]

interesting...............