sad news, fellow clove fiends

[Anna Evans]

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/06...stobacco-bill/

Boo. Sauce. I was totally sulking, because I'm utterly in love with Djarum Blacks...then I realized that you can buy a whole fucking carton for the equivalent of purchasing two packs in NYC or Toronto if you go here:

http://www.djarumblackcigarettes.com/

And so now I'm a fairly content kitten again.

[nathanmbailey]

GO AHEAD AND SMOKE YOUR LETTUCE! Nice. Have to love people from Indiana.

[keiko]

Damnit. Making flavoured blunts illegal and now my cloves. What's next?

~K

[athenahollow]

I'm waiting on them to make laws against electronic cigarettes. I will fucking flip lids then.

[Anna Evans]

Damnit. Making flavoured blunts illegal and now my cloves. What's next?

~K

Kittens. They're going to outlaw kittens. And Belgian waffles.

[athenahollow]

And Belgian waffles.

Now that's just not right. Not right at all....

[Velvet-Tongue]

/facepalms

Obama of all things to do at this moment you go and ban and profitable business.

As far as the bill these points make sense to me atleast:

* It requires companies to submit a complete list of ingredients in the tobacco, paper, filter and other components, and allows the FDA to require the removal of any additive it says is dangerous;
* It requires this list of ingredients to be placed on all labels, which will itemize chemicals added to tobacco products;
* It restricts tobacco marketing to children, such as tobacco billboards near schools.

The other ones? not so much. Banning the word light/mild is kinda dumb. I never thought it meant the cigarette was less deadly, just less strong tasting. Im sure many other people do too.


Oh well. Banning flavors is incredibly silly. Kids will find a way to smoke anyway..apple flavored cigars or not.

[aXa]

and my local night club will never smell the same again:'(

[Velvet-Tongue]

I wonder if the goth kids will start smoking flavored pipe tobacco out of intricately designed corn cob pipes now.

[athenahollow]

Unfortunately it does specify that it is for ALL tobacco products, not just cigarettes, so flavored pipe tobacco might also be going bye bye

[nathanmbailey]

That's fine, it's already cheaper to buy it from Canada or overseas and have it shipped in.

[toxicat]

Apparently it was inspired by his own struggles with smoking. A bit solipsistic. I started with cloves, and when I found out how much worse they were for one's health I switched to regular cigs. Ew. I've been smoke free for about a decade now.

[toxicat]

Sorry, I just saw that that had posted not once or twice but THREE times! Wtf?

[Ajax Knucklebones]

I'm waiting on them to make laws against electronic cigarettes. I will fucking flip lids then.

That'll be, for sure, next since they're not FDA approved. There has already been a broo-ha-ha about them because they have no idea if they are dangerous or not and the company that puts them out, never officially tested them to see if they are.

[keiko]

I guess I'll just smoke more weed. It'll be the only thing I can get a hold of here in a couple months.

What will goth kids smoke now? No long black cigarettes with spicy clouds of cookie flavoured doom to alert others of our ilk that we're feeling social. No more cloves, no more imported French cigarettes with red wrappers. No more Swishers or Black and Milds for the Gangstas and Pot Heads to smoke while walking down the street. Older men who smoke "stogies" the way we kids smoke cigarettes, middle eastern gentlemen and their hookahs all of us, Shit Out of Luck when we want a smoke break.

I bet you it'll become the next biggest import item by the end of the year.

~K

[nathanmbailey]

Those electronic ones are the shit! The good ones, after a couple of good drags, you've pretty much gotten a whole cigarette's worth of nicotine. That's what I liked about the Indiana congressman. His point wasn't against nicotine, it was the smoke.

[athenahollow]

Those electronic ones are the shit! The good ones, after a couple of good drags, you've pretty much gotten a whole cigarette's worth of nicotine. That's what I liked about the Indiana congressman. His point wasn't against nicotine, it was the smoke.

Yea, the brand I'm promoting is pretty fucking nifty. Owned by AEBN, and look cool too hahaha

[VoldtaEngler]

Yet...there may be Hello Kitty beer in existence...

[nathanmbailey]

Come to think of it, with Hello Kitty beer, there has to be Hello Kitty cigarettes. There might be hope yet!

[Morning Glory]

oh wow. cigarettes are still legal? why on earth? they are the fucking dumbest thing and if you want to have any consistency, they should be banned with all other addictive and unhealthy drugs.

or they should all be legal.

Look, it's your right as an asshole Human to fuck yourself up as much as you want, providing you don't harm anyone else. So cigarettes (and all other such drugs) should be legal to buy, illegal to sell and illegal to use in any public or business place.

and if you smoke (snort, shoot or swallow) you are not entitled to health insurance and any public benefits because we shouldn't have to pay for your fucked up ass. Seems like a fair deal to me.

[Anna Evans]

oh wow. cigarettes are still legal? why on earth? they are the fucking dumbest thing and if you want to have any consistency, they should be banned with all other addictive and unhealthy drugs.

or they should all be legal.

Look, it's your right as an asshole Human to fuck yourself up as much as you want, providing you don't harm anyone else. So cigarettes (and all other such drugs) should be legal to buy, illegal to sell and illegal to use in any public or business place.

and if you smoke (snort, shoot or swallow) you are not entitled to health insurance and any public benefits because we shouldn't have to pay for your fucked up ass. Seems like a fair deal to me.

You must not live in the US.

[Mindgames]

When you can find them (and it's becoming almost impossible because of EU labeling laws) a pack of 20 Djarum Blacks costs the British Goth a mere $15 (regular smokes average $10 a pack).

Or you could take a vacation to Indonesia and try smuggling back the domestic version, which is about 3mg nicotine and 60mg tar, and hence about as likely to get through customs as a naked Bin Laden holding a rattlesnake between his butt cheeks. Apparently they're particularly good at causing kidney cancer, but after a few puffs you cease to care.

[Morning Glory]

You must not live in the US.

I do, in fact. whatcha mean?

[Cafe_Post_Mortem]

I do, in fact. whatcha mean?

Well for starters there aren't any real public health services here to speak of anyway.

Also, if you aren't getting the dropped from insurance for the mcdiet, or drinking, or rollerblading, or having casual sex with multiple partners, or sitting in front of a computer all day, or teasing badgers, or driving, why would you for cigarettes.

Of course, insurance is a private industry that currently sets it's own rules anyway, so it is a mute point. They can drop you for coloring your hair. And the current prices of medical care have little to do with cigarettes.

[Morning Glory]

And the current prices of medical care have little to do with cigarettes.

I'm going to disagree with you on that one. Smoking related illness and death account for a significant portion of medical treatment. People who can't afford to pay for health care and don't have insurance constitute a loss for the medical business and that drives up the price. It's cheaper to buy cigarettes than health insurance and I'd bet smokers are more likely to get sick than non- and so the former doesn't make much a distinction the later certainly does.

As far as the difference between cigs and the other things that are bad for you, those things are not addictive - yes, I know many people will swear that they are addicted to Cherry Garcia, it doesn't count.

But for the sake of argument, Ok sure... I'm just trying to keep it simple. It could get very messy when we shut down nearly all commercial enterprise and manufacturing in the pursuit of banning all things unhealthy, and how is that going to effect medical prices when we nix all those PVC filled hospitals?

[Mindgames]

...how is that going to effect medical prices when we nix all those PVC filled hospitals?

Those types of hospital aren't on Medicare. In regular hospitals the nurses wear cotton...

[Morning Glory]

Damn, cuz I have an erection lasting for more than 4 hours...

[Anna Evans]

I do, in fact. whatcha mean?

How odd. I don't know anyone who lives in the US who's honestly enough of a hermit to be seriously surprised that cigarettes are still legal. I also don't know anyone who lives in the US is misinformed enough to believe that health care is at all common in the US, or funded by taxpayers, although I've met many Canadians who were surprised by how crappy US health care is.

[mystoo]

Face it, everyone is going to get sick (smokers or non) at some point and need health care. I'm talking really sick, not just a cold or tooth infection type sick.
The health care system in Canada is not perfect but it's pretty fucking good. There's not much we have to pay for directly.

[Obscuria.com]

Great, one more civil liberty precociously extorted from us. While I'm not a cigarette smoker, I would occasionally enjoy a clove while drinking at the "goth" club. Just to be funny, I'd save my old black and red Sampoerna Xtras box, and stuff it with Djarum Blacks to confuse people. Guess I better stock up on a few boxes to tide my over the next couple of years, (yes, that's how little I smoke them). What's next, putting a tax or ban on fattening food?

As mystoo mentioned, everyone at some point will become ill. It's not like the gov't is currently funding our health care - giving them a wild card to suggest what we do or do not consume.

[aXa]

didnt they just institute another new tobacco tax? will this result in another one on the remaining tobacco products?

[keiko]

I had a 4 paragraph rant on this and my fucking touch pad jumped in the way and backed me up leaving me with a blank.

I'm going to the store for a pack of smokes. Here's hoping they're still allowed to sell me No. 9's when I get there.

~K

[Morning Glory]

How odd. I don't know anyone who lives in the US who's honestly enough of a hermit to be seriously surprised that cigarettes are still legal.

Or they are just a sarcastic asshole.

I also know that we don't exactly have public health care (well, we do to a degree) but I'm not sure how it was interpreted that I thought so...

let me put it this way, if you crash your car into a tree and tell your insurance company that you did it because you felt like it, then they won't pay for it... the same should be applied to when you do that to your body with cigarettes.

hey, why am I the bad guy here because I'm advocating personal responsibility? I'm not telling anyone not to smoke, and I don't think that the government should either or tax them for it or have anything to do with it. People should be able to do what they want to, but the other end of the spectrum means that they have to clean up their own messes and not put it on other people to deal with. Is that unfair?

[athenahollow]

But smoking doesn't guarantee you will get any kind of smoking related diseases, it just has the possiblity of making the existing problems appear. You can be genetically disposed to getting lung cancer, and whether or not you smoke you will get it.

We don't know enough about genetics to decide whether smoking truly is the factor in you getting diseases that may be linked to them (or may not be).

Case and point: I'm a 4th generation smoker in my family. Not a single smoker has gotten lung cancer, emphysema, mouth cancer, or other "smoking related diseases". Proof that smoking doesn't ALWAYS cause said problems. And considering my mom has smoked 3 packs a day for 15 years, and the dr. said her lungs are fit as a whistle *(his words not mine lol)* proves that just because you smoke doesn't mean that you are going to get an illness because of it.

But by your logic, anyone who goes outside during the day who ends up with skin cancer (even by taking the necessary precautions, it is still completely possible) means you shouldn't be able to get any form of public health care for said cancer.

[Raza]

Liberties are best taken. If you cannot enjoy your counterculture status symbol smokes without a national consensus, don't expect any sympathy from me.

Import them. Buy them black (as befits them). Make your own; cigarette maker thingies aren't hard to come by and adding your own ingredients for flavor and colored paper shouldn't be an insurmountable challenge. All of these work for absinthe, and the challenge only serves to make you look better when you do pull out a bottle of the real stuff when you've got your gothy friends over.

[Amelia G]

#1 Insurance for smokers costs either the smoker or their employer more money than insurance for non-smokers, so those costs are already factored in to what they pay. Insurance is not there as a safety net. Insurance is there to allow future billionaires to use your premiums in the market to make themselves rich while waiting for your problems to cost less than you've paid in. If they do the math poorly and don't make enough money to pay themselves and pay for your problems, then Uncle Sam will bail them out. Insurance is a for-profit industry, so people who smoke do not cost anyone besides themselves or their employers more money.

#2 I don't smoke, but I sure do hate nanny state nonsense.

#3 I dislike being around cigarette smoke, but I like Raza's idea of DIY cigarette manufacture.

#4 It has been widely reported that the President occasionally smokes, so I don't know where this mystery over that is being introduced in that article.

[Anna Evans]

Liberties are best taken. If you cannot enjoy your counterculture status symbol smokes without a national consensus, don't expect any sympathy from me.

Import them. Buy them black (as befits them). Make your own; cigarette maker thingies aren't hard to come by and adding your own ingredients for flavor and colored paper shouldn't be an insurmountable challenge. All of these work for absinthe, and the challenge only serves to make you look better when you do pull out a bottle of the real stuff when you've got your gothy friends over.

Why on earth would I value your sympathy? I don't know you.

Anyway, my plan is to buy a few cartons now so I'm stocked up no matter how many I give away-which is my favorite part of smoking. When I run out, I'll just visit Canada more often.

I don't smoke Blacks to be counterculture. I smoke them because they taste like Christmas.

[Anna Evans]

Or they are just a sarcastic asshole.

I also know that we don't exactly have public health care (well, we do to a degree) but I'm not sure how it was interpreted that I thought so...

let me put it this way, if you crash your car into a tree and tell your insurance company that you did it because you felt like it, then they won't pay for it... the same should be applied to when you do that to your body with cigarettes.

hey, why am I the bad guy here because I'm advocating personal responsibility? I'm not telling anyone not to smoke, and I don't think that the government should either or tax them for it or have anything to do with it. People should be able to do what they want to, but the other end of the spectrum means that they have to clean up their own messes and not put it on other people to deal with. Is that unfair?

I know very, very few people with health care. I don't have it, and I still smoke occasionally. No one is paying for my choices besides me; if I end up with lung cancer, I'll be footing the bill. I certainly never implied that I think it's at all fair or right for other people to pay for my bad habits.

What mainly irritates me about this is that SOME cigarettes are now illegal, but some aren't. I don't like the cherry picking.

[Raza]

Why on earth would I value your sympathy? I don't know you.

Anyway, my plan is to buy a few cartons now so I'm stocked up no matter how many I give away-which is my favorite part of smoking. When I run out, I'll just visit Canada more often.

I don't smoke Blacks to be counterculture. I smoke them because they taste like Christmas.

It's a rhetorical statement expressing a mild condemnation of our position over the irony inherent to it. You do not need to actually value my sympathy - and in fact may be better off not doing so, as it's something I tend to withhold liberally.

Anyway, even if you smoke them for their taste I don't think it's too big a deal. Most drugs are illegal; the extra effort builds character, and a healthy disdain for law enforcement.

[KessM]

erg. i started on cloves. the sweet smell makes me nauseous now.